Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > NBA Team Forums > Toronto Raptors Forum

Toronto Raptors Forum Toronto Raptors message board - Toronto Raptors forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-01-2013, 05:34 PM   #586
bokes15
Playoffs!
 
bokes15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New York City
Posts: 9,290
bokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: Raps Forum Keeper League Season Six

Totally agree with brwnman there. I've been frustrated with the system too but since we started with it, we should finish up with it and then in the offseason we should have a vote with all of the returning members over whether to scrap it or not. Especially since not everyone agrees.
bokes15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2013, 06:27 PM   #587
RapsFan
Great college starter
 
RapsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,660
RapsFan is a pretty well-respected posterRapsFan is a pretty well-respected posterRapsFan is a pretty well-respected poster
Default Re: Raps Forum Keeper League Season Six

My goal was to open the discussion regarding the waiver system because it's simply a flawed system. It's not about one GM or another, it's about making the league better.

As for the number of keepers, lowering to 3 was actually brought up well before we started to draft. Again, people's opinions are motivated by what helps their team. Brwnman of course wants 4 keepers, he'd probably want more. I just want us to set rules that are better overall for the league. I feel 52 players kept is far too many.

Zan - your non drafted waiver rule is interesting for sure. The issue with any of those rules is that in a keeper league, your place in the standings may or may not be correlated to your keepers. You could win and have great keepers or bad keepers. Because it's variable, having any rules that are based on where you ended the season in the standings related to keepers is tough.
RapsFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2013, 06:43 PM   #588
brwnman
.
 
brwnman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 7,626
brwnman has a terrific reputationbrwnman has a terrific reputationbrwnman has a terrific reputationbrwnman has a terrific reputationbrwnman has a terrific reputationbrwnman has a terrific reputation
Default Re: Raps Forum Keeper League Season Six

Quote:
Originally Posted by RapsFan
My goal was to open the discussion regarding the waiver system because it's simply a flawed system. It's not about one GM or another, it's about making the league better.

As for the number of keepers, lowering to 3 was actually brought up well before we started to draft. Again, people's opinions are motivated by what helps their team. Brwnman of course wants 4 keepers, he'd probably want more. I just want us to set rules that are better overall for the league. I feel 52 players kept is far too many.

Zan - your non drafted waiver rule is interesting for sure. The issue with any of those rules is that in a keeper league, your place in the standings may or may not be correlated to your keepers. You could win and have great keepers or bad keepers. Because it's variable, having any rules that are based on where you ended the season in the standings related to keepers is tough.

We never said we were going to lower it to 3. It was a discussion that we were having, I don't think we ever got to a point where we said that was the case. It was still being discussed during the draft. 4 keepers is the right amount of keepers...
brwnman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2013, 06:56 PM   #589
bokes15
Playoffs!
 
bokes15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New York City
Posts: 9,290
bokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: Raps Forum Keeper League Season Six

As far as I remember I think a large majority agreed on having 3 keepers going forward. And then I asked RF for confirmation somewhere in this thread and he said it was going to be 3 next season and nobody opposed. Let me find it.
bokes15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2013, 07:10 PM   #590
bokes15
Playoffs!
 
bokes15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New York City
Posts: 9,290
bokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: Raps Forum Keeper League Season Six

Ok I feel like some sort of lawyer/mediator here but i've got the info looking back through pages 25-30 of this thread.

I said this initially:

Quote:
Originally Posted by bokes15
I think it's better if we know any proposed rule changes for next season early on so that we can actually plan accordingly. Like for example the 2 you mentioned with 3 keepers instead of 4 and whether a waiver pick up will stay in the 11th round.

RF responded with this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by RapsFan
I'm definitely with you, but it sounds like there are others are prefer to keep it as is.

I think we'll officially move to 3 keepers. The round value or waivers can continue to be discussed. The waiver rules in general are also something we can tweak.

Example - all FA are on waivers so waiver priority impacts each FA, waiver auction etc

I will note that Brwnman just like now was pretty much the one person to oppose that notion.

And then on the waiver dispute between RF and FC:

RF said this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by RapsFan
I have set the waiver system to continuous. This means all FA are always on waivers. Waivers are processed 3 times a week. This allows all GMs the opportunity to get a FA, obviously depending on their waiver priority. I don't have to keep it this way, but that's how it is for now. It would prevent someone from grabbing a FA at 3am after a late game because nobody else is awake.

And FC responded favorably:
Quote:
Originally Posted by FCardelle
It's great to me because I can't watch NBA games live (I'm sleeping), so I had to wait until next morning to pick from waivers. I was at disadvantage.
bokes15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2013, 07:27 PM   #591
Zan Tabak
Only the finest
 
Zan Tabak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: -lll──lll-
Posts: 3,781
Zan Tabak has an incredible reputation hereZan Tabak has an incredible reputation hereZan Tabak has an incredible reputation hereZan Tabak has an incredible reputation hereZan Tabak has an incredible reputation hereZan Tabak has an incredible reputation hereZan Tabak has an incredible reputation hereZan Tabak has an incredible reputation here
Default Re: Raps Forum Keeper League Season Six

Sorry brwnman I like 3 keepers better too.

I think we should vote on it.
Zan Tabak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2013, 07:54 PM   #592
RapsFan
Great college starter
 
RapsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,660
RapsFan is a pretty well-respected posterRapsFan is a pretty well-respected posterRapsFan is a pretty well-respected poster
Default Re: Raps Forum Keeper League Season Six

I was under the impression we moved to 3 keepers but decided to leave the FA waiver in the 11th round. I think it's too low but whatever.

The waiver rule, I knew FC liked it because it helped him better due to the time difference....despite him today ranting that I changed from the old because the old was better for him. I figured he was basically making things up - thanks bokes for confirming.

This is FC's quote 'BTW, you changed it because you thought the old system was an advantage to me for being in Europe.'

I think I remember brwnman being concerned with the overall re-draft talent pool. Going to 3 keepers will improve that.
RapsFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2013, 08:21 PM   #593
bokes15
Playoffs!
 
bokes15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New York City
Posts: 9,290
bokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: Raps Forum Keeper League Season Six

I actually pretty much remembered FC being one of the guys who said he preferred the continuous waiver but I figured it'd be impossible to get him to admit that so I just posted it up instead so there wouldn't be anymore dispute. I like FC as a poster, he doesn't cause (much) drama anymore. But being straight forward and honest is not one of his strong suits. Then again, as he said those qualities actually seem to help him with regards to the league so more power to him.

And yeah, I do also recall brwnman saying that he doesn't like how the top players keep getting recycled and never fall to the draft. So if you don't think lowering the keepers to 3 instead of 4 (essentially putting 13 more top players in the pool) what else do you think would accomplish that as effectively as that?
bokes15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2013, 02:39 AM   #594
kmart
No props needed
 
kmart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,013
kmart has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Raps Forum Keeper League Season Six

I agree with RapsFan on this one 3 keepers overall and the waiver guys are way too high. There are too little players in the draft pool at the beginning.

I don't mind changing the waiver process now. If you are going to make no waivers for everybody then up the keeper value to the 7th to 9th rounds of the league. Just look at some of the 11th round keepers Dragic, Lin, and Klay Thompson.

Or better yet no keepers for undrafted players
kmart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2013, 05:24 AM   #595
brwnman
.
 
brwnman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 7,626
brwnman has a terrific reputationbrwnman has a terrific reputationbrwnman has a terrific reputationbrwnman has a terrific reputationbrwnman has a terrific reputationbrwnman has a terrific reputation
Default Re: Raps Forum Keeper League Season Six

I suggested that we have no keepers at round 1 and round 2. So you continuously have top players available every draft. However, 4 keepers should remain. I get royally screwed otherwise. I drafted as if it were 4 and thought it was a suggestion and not something that we were actually doing. Now if we want to change it the year after next, that can be discussed and agreed upon before the draft. Also, the whole point of a keeper league is to draft well and set up for future years if you suck. Making it harder to keep guys would just mean the guys who are near the lower end to pretty much not be active. Especially if you can't keep guys from the waiver...
brwnman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2013, 07:36 AM   #596
RapsFan
Great college starter
 
RapsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,660
RapsFan is a pretty well-respected posterRapsFan is a pretty well-respected posterRapsFan is a pretty well-respected poster
Default Re: Raps Forum Keeper League Season Six

We can keep guys from the waiver, we just aren't sure how. I suspect there will be enough resistence from GMs that it will remain in round 11, but again that will be from GMs that have a good waiver pickup.

As for your other comments, again I think you're making them specifically for your team, not what makes sense to the league. Changing to 3 keepers was brought up pre draft and before the season began it was decided to move to 3 keepers. So what is the complaint?

How did you draft differently with the assumption of 4 keepers vs 3 keepers, keep in mind the notion of moving to 3 was on the table before the draft even began. I assume everyone drafted with hopes of competing and winning this year.
RapsFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2013, 12:27 PM   #597
lilbeastnani
InsideScoops
 
lilbeastnani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Chambs house
Posts: 3,047
lilbeastnani has a bad reputationlilbeastnani has a bad reputationlilbeastnani has a bad reputationlilbeastnani has a bad reputation
Default Re: Raps Forum Keeper League Season Six

So basically, you are rejecting 3 keeper picks and suggesting something even more radical like no keeper selections in the 1st or 2nd round? That would alter the game dramatically. I don't even see that as a reasonable request to be honest.
lilbeastnani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2013, 12:37 PM   #598
Zan Tabak
Only the finest
 
Zan Tabak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: -lll──lll-
Posts: 3,781
Zan Tabak has an incredible reputation hereZan Tabak has an incredible reputation hereZan Tabak has an incredible reputation hereZan Tabak has an incredible reputation hereZan Tabak has an incredible reputation hereZan Tabak has an incredible reputation hereZan Tabak has an incredible reputation hereZan Tabak has an incredible reputation here
Default Re: Raps Forum Keeper League Season Six

I'm down for letting brwnman have 4 keepers this year and the rest of us go to 3. Wouldn't bother me.
Zan Tabak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2013, 12:39 PM   #599
kmart
No props needed
 
kmart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,013
kmart has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Raps Forum Keeper League Season Six

Quote:
Originally Posted by brwnman
I suggested that we have no keepers at round 1 and round 2. So you continuously have top players available every draft. However, 4 keepers should remain. I get royally screwed otherwise. I drafted as if it were 4 and thought it was a suggestion and not something that we were actually doing. Now if we want to change it the year after next, that can be discussed and agreed upon before the draft. Also, the whole point of a keeper league is to draft well and set up for future years if you suck. Making it harder to keep guys would just mean the guys who are near the lower end to pretty much not be active. Especially if you can't keep guys from the waiver...
So now your just admitting that you're gonna get screwed. But then if we do what you suggest we are pretty much all screwed in comparison to you. Moving from 3 keepers from 4 keepers wouldn't be to much of a drastic change. If anything it would create more parity within the league.
kmart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2013, 12:40 PM   #600
kmart
No props needed
 
kmart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,013
kmart has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Raps Forum Keeper League Season Six

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zan Tabak
I'm down for letting brwnman have 4 keepers this year and the rest of us go to 3. Wouldn't bother me.

Hes pretty much thrown away this season though. Trading Ellis early for a 5th round pick he used on D Rose? Then picking up Bynum on waivers even though he has Wall and Rose injured.
kmart is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:54 PM.




NBA Basketball Forum Key Links:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
NBA Mock Draft
NBA Free Agents
All-Star Weekend
---
High School Basketball
Streetball
---
InsideHoops Twitter
Search Our Site













Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy