Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > NBA Team Forums > Miami Heat Forum

Miami Heat Forum Miami Heat forum - miami heat message board

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-25-2006, 09:30 PM   #16
KWALI
erudite
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,112
KWALI has an OK reputation so far
Default

Umm you need to check Akeem's teamates and get some perspective.....U see when SHAQ got to the NBA Finals inlike his third year his best teamate was Penny Hardaway......so I don't see this huge talent divide the one player on a consistent basis who was definitely better that the Championship Houston teamates is KB8.....everyone else...is not as good as Rocket players Horry wasd better in Houston and Ralph Sampson was actually the best player either of the played with.

Mad Max, Cassell, Thorpe weren't big names but being big names isn't as important as being a unit......L.A's unit wasn't better and The Heat aren't better yet.....

Orlando's unit proved their quality in the finals where they were outplayed and should there youth....Penny and SHaq did fine but other dropped off infamously Nick Anderson and Dennis Scott.
KWALI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2006, 09:39 PM   #17
fatboy11
NBA sixth man of the year
 
fatboy11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 7,964
fatboy11 is a pretty well-respected posterfatboy11 is a pretty well-respected posterfatboy11 is a pretty well-respected poster
Default

Kobe Bryant, Penny Hardaway, and Dwyane Wade.

Those 3 make up for A LOT.

But even then, the teammates don't matter. What did Shaq do better than Hakeem? Defend? Score a little bit more? Rebound? Block Shots?

I just don't see what Shaq did to justify considering him better than Hakeem when Hakeem was better in almost every facet of the game.
fatboy11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2006, 09:57 PM   #18
KWALI
erudite
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,112
KWALI has an OK reputation so far
Default Hakeem

Hakeem was a better perimeter scorer.

That's all he did better.....SHOOT....he blocked more shots but more people challenged him just like ZO right now....you ever see KJ try and dunk on SHAQ?

Like I said SHAQ even at his best wasn't better.... but his dominance started earlier and has lasted longer....your teamates stuff is bunk he only played with ONE of those guys at a time and if you go to the #3 player on any of his teams the houston counterpart is better except this heat team where he has name value but interms of what they can bring a team ahhh.

See KB8 being better as a first pick than a Late Drexler doesn't mean anything becuz he's not being picked for a seperate team he's playing in the excisting roster....So Shaq having better single teamtes doesn't matter he has never played with a better unit than the Championship Rocket units or the one that AKeem went to the finals with prior. Just finishing that since you brought it up.

Now I assume you play ball.....Shaq's that guy no one wants to guard and no two people think they can stop....he's punishig your team even without getting the ball...these things don't show up in stats.. WHen he plays NO ONE drives to the rim becuz of fear and he fouls out and intimidates all you Bigs...Hakeem's feathery drives and impossible Dream shakes LOOK BETTER but he isn't more effective. Hakeem is the guy the know is better than them but they think they can body him or slow him down....they usually fail but he's not in their heads dominant.

Defensively his block and steal numbers are more impressive but realitically if you can totally make driving to the basket NOT AN OPTION it's better than blocking 3 shots a game......steals..gotta give that to Dream...

If Hakeem was the Leader of the Houston team that went to the Finals in teh 80's he'd have a better argument...that would mean he was on that ELITE MVP level as long as SHAQ...but he wasn't until later and for a much shorter time....then he just brokedown.
KWALI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2006, 09:59 PM   #19
vincentda
Decent playground baller
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 339
vincentda has decent reputationvincentda has decent reputation
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fatboy11
I just don't see what Shaq did to justify considering him better than Hakeem when Hakeem was better in almost every facet of the game.
Looks like somebody not only missed the annual Hakeem vs Shaq threads that clearly explains this but they also missed watching the careers of the two players and don't talk about what you saw on ESPN, mixes, the last couple of years or threads that create myths like Hakeem dominated Shaq in the finals. Too bad you weren't born earlier or knew more.

Kwali, you and I are constantly trying to educate these kids about what really happened in the 90s but too many people have been brainwashed (and the latest interview with Jordan in Slam magazine will just give Hakeem lovers and/or Shaq haters more fuel b/c they will say whatever Jordan says goes) into thinking Hakeem dominated everybody including this amazing list of centers (they make it sound like everyteam had a Wilt on it) and that Shaq for the majority of his career was just slightly better than what they have seen of him in the past few years - which isn't that bad considering he's still a 20/10 player getting triple teamed and was the MVP runner-up last year and did happen to play a big role in this years championship (his 4th ring and 6th finals appearance in the last 12 years)

Last edited by vincentda : 06-25-2006 at 10:03 PM.
vincentda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2006, 10:08 PM   #20
fatboy11
NBA sixth man of the year
 
fatboy11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 7,964
fatboy11 is a pretty well-respected posterfatboy11 is a pretty well-respected posterfatboy11 is a pretty well-respected poster
Default

Quote:
threads that create myths like Hakeem dominated Shaq in the finals.
Dominated? No. Outplayed? Obviously.

Shaq even knows that.
fatboy11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2006, 10:09 PM   #21
Real Men Wear Green
Don't panic.
 
Real Men Wear Green's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Brighton, MA
Posts: 19,970
Real Men Wear Green is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterReal Men Wear Green is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterReal Men Wear Green is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterReal Men Wear Green is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterReal Men Wear Green is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterReal Men Wear Green is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterReal Men Wear Green is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterReal Men Wear Green is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterReal Men Wear Green is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterReal Men Wear Green is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterReal Men Wear Green is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default

It's true that Shaq has greater stats, and I'd probably take Shaq myself, but I'm curious about the effect Ramadan had on Hakeem's career. The Muslim month of fasting could have kept him from being as effective as he could have been, in fact I recall it being mentioned throughout his career. Can someone find his stats through Ramadan?
Real Men Wear Green is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2006, 10:10 PM   #22
KWALI
erudite
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,112
KWALI has an OK reputation so far
Default Well

To close if Hakeem was better when the Rockets grabbed Pippen and Barkley...They woulda beat Utah.....See people forget all those other players Hakeem had on his teams and how his not beaing the same player in more than spurts killed the rockets.

Believe me Fat he had great teamates in the 80's too name you won't remember becuz like Penny they quickly vanished due to drugs or injury.

But most people don't even remember PIPPEN, Barkley, Eddie Johnson etc serious vets
KWALI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2006, 10:14 PM   #23
KWALI
erudite
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,112
KWALI has an OK reputation so far
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fatboy11
Dominated? No. Outplayed? Obviously.

Shaq even knows that.
It's one of those instances that shows SHAQ has some class...he always shows defferance reffering to Hakeem but the overall stats are even it's like sayying Dirk outplayed TD in the WC finals....

Really in three of the Magic's losses I can point to Anderson's Scott's and Bowies......as being directly responsible for how it did play out....how it happens if they make plays that Cassell's HOrry's and Jett's do I don't know could still be the same...

But the SHAQ vs Hakeem match-up was not a deciding factor...and Hakeem ducked the one on one match-up LOL

Hakeem was clutch though I think in the deciding game he toasted Shaq.
KWALI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2006, 10:16 PM   #24
Fatal9
owwwww
 
Fatal9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 9,573
Fatal9 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableFatal9 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableFatal9 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableFatal9 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableFatal9 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableFatal9 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableFatal9 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableFatal9 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableFatal9 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableFatal9 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableFatal9 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Men Wear Green
It's true that Shaq has greater stats, and I'd probably take Shaq myself, but I'm curious about the effect Ramadan had on Hakeem's career. The Muslim month of fasting could have kept him from being as effective as he could have been, in fact I recall it being mentioned throughout his career. Can someone find his stats through Ramadan?

I don't think he was playing during Ramadan. Ramadan is in the 9th month so it's around september/october...and the season didn't start till November.
Fatal9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2006, 10:18 PM   #25
fatboy11
NBA sixth man of the year
 
fatboy11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 7,964
fatboy11 is a pretty well-respected posterfatboy11 is a pretty well-respected posterfatboy11 is a pretty well-respected poster
Default

Maybe I'm just too much of a Rocket fan..........
fatboy11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2006, 10:34 PM   #26
Real Men Wear Green
Don't panic.
 
Real Men Wear Green's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Brighton, MA
Posts: 19,970
Real Men Wear Green is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterReal Men Wear Green is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterReal Men Wear Green is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterReal Men Wear Green is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterReal Men Wear Green is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterReal Men Wear Green is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterReal Men Wear Green is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterReal Men Wear Green is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterReal Men Wear Green is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterReal Men Wear Green is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterReal Men Wear Green is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatal9
I don't think he was playing during Ramadan. Ramadan is in the 9th month so it's around september/october...and the season didn't start till November.
It's the 9th month of the Muslim calendar, which is different, though October was pretty close in 2005. Last year it started on October 5th (I just looked all of that up). Probably didn't have a huge effect on his numbers but the Muslim year is 354 days long instead of our 365, which must have put his fast in different stages of the season, and occasionally out of the season, throughout his career.
Real Men Wear Green is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2006, 10:36 PM   #27
Ricardo Tubbs
High School JV MVP
 
Ricardo Tubbs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Miami
Posts: 213
Ricardo Tubbs has an OK reputation so far
Default

Quote:
-- Shaq was far more efficient offensively

Not quite. Shaq as we all know has always been a pathetic free throw shooter. On the other hand, Hakeem was always pretty decent at it. Due to this, Shaq's true shooting percentage in his prime was generally around 58%. Hakeem's was around 56%. So while Shaq was more efficient, it was hardly "by far."

Quote:
-- Shaq has dominated statistically in a way Hakeem never even approached. Hakeem had a PER greater than 27.0 once in his entire career (with a mark of 27.3 in 1993), whereas Shaq topped 27.0 a whopping 10 times, including a 6 year stretch where he averaged a 29.9 PER. Shaq's career PER (27.8) is greater than Hakeem's single-season best (27.3). 'Nuff said.

I assume you got those numbers from basketball-reference.com, which uses the convoluted Hollinger PER system. If you use the NBA PER system instead, the story is quite different:
http://www.basketballreference.com/p...lkid=OLAJUHA01
http://www.basketballreference.com/p...ilkid=ONEASH01

Quote:
-- Each has a single regular season MVP award, though Shaq has more top 5 finishes (5) than does Hakeem (3) excluding their respective MVP seasons.

Shaq did not have as much quality competition for MVP votes as Hakeem did in the late '80s-mid '90s. The inside players he had to compete with were Robinson, Malone, Barkley, and Ewing. His prime was pretty much the exact same time period as these guys. For the first half of his career, he also had to compete with Bird and Magic.

In the late '90s-early '00s, Shaq's interior competition was Duncan, Garnett, Webber, Zo…there is no comparison as to who had the tougher competition for votes. Not to mention that both guys finally won when Jordan left, and Hakeem's prime pretty much coincided exactly with Jordan's. And Shaq never had to compete with Bird and Magic at any point in his career.

And to throw another card in the hat, Hakeem was simply more reliable than Shaq. Shaq topped 75 games four times in his career, and three of those were his first three seasons. Hakeem did it eight times. And that's with Ramadan!
Ricardo Tubbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2006, 11:05 PM   #28
Shepseskaf
Old School
 
Shepseskaf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: The Caribbean
Posts: 5,911
Shepseskaf has a terrific reputationShepseskaf has a terrific reputationShepseskaf has a terrific reputationShepseskaf has a terrific reputationShepseskaf has a terrific reputation
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KWALI
Umm you need to check Akeem's teamates and get some perspective.....

This is Akeem

Seriously, Hakeem should have won two MVPs. Does anybody remember how he undressed David Robinson in the '95 playoffs? That was the year DRob won the MVP. It was pathetic watching Hakeem just work him. DRob had no answer, and played scared the whole series. It was embarrassing.
Shepseskaf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2006, 11:10 PM   #29
GothamKnight
High school junior varsity star
 
GothamKnight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 184
GothamKnight has an OK reputation so far
Default

i love Hakeem, but Shaq is a monster. i think a lot of here think Shaq was only good during the champioship years. when he was young he was a BEAST.
GothamKnight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2006, 11:15 PM   #30
KWALI
erudite
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,112
KWALI has an OK reputation so far
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shepseskaf

This is Akeem

Seriously, Hakeem should have won two MVPs. Does anybody remember how he undressed David Robinson in the '95 playoffs? That was the year DRob won the MVP. It was pathetic watching Hakeem just work him. DRob had no answer, and played scared the whole series. It was embarrassing.

Yougin's Akeem is his original name....speaks to strength eruditeness....added the "H" mid stream in his careem supposed to speak to Wisdom and Strength.

Akeem was the second best player on the team....Hakeem was the best player in the L but they are one in the same...he was Akeem first.
KWALI is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:34 AM.




NBA Basketball Forum Key Links:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
NBA Mock Draft
NBA Free Agents
All-Star Weekend
---
High School Basketball
Streetball
---
InsideHoops Twitter
Search Our Site













Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy