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Old 10-05-2012, 06:24 PM   #106
Legends66NBA7
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Default Re: Barkley: ""I do think he can be better than Michael," Barkley said."

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ Leon Smith
I'm not trying to run down Pippen, he was one of my favorite players growing up. It's just interesting that this forum is one of the only places that tries to elevate Pippen to an elite first option in the attempt to belittle Jordan's accomplishments. And yes, he wasn't an all-star in the year the Bulls won their first title so technically Jordan won without an all-star teammate that year.

I like that you mentioned context though, do Kobe stans look at the context of Pippen's rookie/early career stats and his lack of leadership on teams he played on without Jordan as a teammate? No, they don't. They're the republicans of NBA fans.

Okay, fair enough. Like you said, technically, Jordan did win without an all-star teammate that year... that's if we don't actually put into context. My bad, it just kinda bugs me, since he was better than some players that did make the all-star team that year, regardless. I agree, people saying Pippen in an elite first option to be belittle Jordan's accomplishments don't have a proper argument to back it up. He will always be a great second option from both ends, not the undeserved propping up he gets.

Yeah, Kobe stans kinda miss out on the context part. I've also stated in the past that they were teammates before rookie Pippen that were playing better around that season and the playoffs (namely Charles Oakley), so it's dumb to say statements like "Jordan never got out of the first round with Pippen", when Oakley and arguably Horace Grant were better than Pippen that year.
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Old 10-05-2012, 06:24 PM   #107
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Default Re: Barkley: ""I do think he can be better than Michael," Barkley said."

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ Leon Smith
I'm not trying to run down Pippen, he was one of my favorite players growing up. It's just interesting that this forum is one of the only places that tries to elevate Pippen to an elite first option in the attempt to belittle Jordan's accomplishments. And yes, he wasn't an all-star in the year the Bulls won their first title so technically Jordan won without an all-star teammate that year.

I like that you mentioned context though, do Kobe stans look at the context of Pippen's rookie/early career stats and his lack of leadership on teams he played on without Jordan as a teammate? No, they don't. They're the republicans of NBA fans.


WTF?...he was on many great teams without MJ..and did a better job of leading the Bull's without Jordan...then vice versa.

@ Bull's fans who degrade Pippen's leadership without MJ....but disregard Jordan horrible leadership without Pippen... (just look at his time in Washington as the Vet leader)

sad
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Old 10-05-2012, 06:24 PM   #108
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Default Re: Barkley: ""I do think he can be better than Michael," Barkley said."

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaWolf24
you must have never watched Nique in the mid 80's....Most fans thought Nique was better then MJ....or at least equals.

No one thought that, ever.

Great forum you've got here Jeff.
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Old 10-05-2012, 06:26 PM   #109
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Default Re: Barkley: ""I do think he can be better than Michael," Barkley said."

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaWolf24
WTF?...he was on many great teams without MJ..and did a better job of leading the Bull's without Jordan...then vice versa.

How many titles did Pippen win with Portland and Houston?

P.S. Learn how to use apostrophes. Or as you might say it, "apostrophe's".
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Old 10-05-2012, 06:28 PM   #110
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Default Re: Barkley: ""I do think he can be better than Michael," Barkley said."

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Originally Posted by Legends66NBA7
Okay, fair enough. Like you said, technically, Jordan did win without an all-star teammate that year... that's if we don't actually put into context. My bad, it just kinda bugs me, since he was better than some players that did make the all-star team that year, regardless. I agree, people saying Pippen in an elite first option to be belittle Jordan's accomplishments don't have a proper argument to back it up. He will always be a great second option from both ends, not the undeserved propping up he gets.

Yeah, Kobe stans kinda miss out on the context part. I've also stated in the past that they were teammates before rookie Pippen that were playing better around that season and the playoffs (namely Charles Oakley), so it's dumb to say that "Jordan never got out of the first round with Pippen", when Oakley and arguably Horace Grant were better than Pippen that year.


Honest question....did you even watch Pippen's Rookie season?

the man played great in the Post season...and was a much better post season player then Grant....in fact he was a starter putting up nearly double double's..and coming up huge against the Cavs.

sirously..did you watch him play?
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Old 10-05-2012, 06:29 PM   #111
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Default Re: Barkley: ""I do think he can be better than Michael," Barkley said."

Quote:
Originally Posted by StateOfMind12
Lebron is the only one that has any shot to surpass MJ, so if you want another GOAT, you better hope Lebron can do it cause I doubt anyone else will come close any time soon.

Jordan swept all of his Finals appearances against direct peers. No old players in their twilight years, no young bucks who didn't know how to handle the big stage. Jordan didn't choke, he "stepped up" or at the very least, still made his presence known through all of his title runs.

Lebron went invisible in 2 Finals already during his career. Those things tend to affect a player's overall ranking in a GOAT discussion. He'll be "One of Greats", but GOAT is already too late for Lebron.
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Old 10-05-2012, 06:29 PM   #112
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Default Re: Barkley: ""I do think he can be better than Michael," Barkley said."

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ Leon Smith
How many titles did Pippen win with Portland and Houston?

P.S. Learn how to use apostrophes. Or as you might say it, "apostrophe's".


none...the same amount Jordan won without Pippen....

except Pippen's teams wern't stepping stone's...L'MAO'

back in my pocket's you goe's
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Old 10-05-2012, 06:33 PM   #113
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Default Re: Barkley: ""I do think he can be better than Michael," Barkley said."

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaWolf24
the man played great in the Post season...and was a much better post season player then Grant....in fact he was a starter putting up nearly double double's..and coming up huge against the Cavs.

Were just talking about the Cavs series in 1988 ?

Yes, Pippen started... 1 game... the last game of that series, which turned out great for the Bulls. Before that, he didn't have a game anywhere close to his game 5 or had no impact at all.

I never said Grant was better. I said it was arguable between them THAT year. Charles Oakley was better that series though.

Quote:
sirously..did you watch him play?

Yes I did watch him play, he was one of my favourite players growing up.
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Old 10-05-2012, 06:33 PM   #114
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Default Re: Barkley: ""I do think he can be better than Michael," Barkley said."

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaWolf24
none...the same amount Jordan won without Pippen....

except Pippen's teams wern't stepping stone's...L'MAO'

back in my pocket's you goe's

How many NBA Finals MVPs did Pippen win, with our without Jordan?

We can play this game all day. Keep digging that hole.

Also, how many NBA Finals games did Jordan lose at home after being up 24 points at half-time and how many NBA Finals deciding games did he lose by 39 points? You still haven't answered those questions.

Oh and how many times did Jordan miss the playoffs in his prime. Feel free to answer that one as well. I've got all day.
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Old 10-05-2012, 06:40 PM   #115
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Default Re: Barkley: ""I do think he can be better than Michael," Barkley said."

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ Leon Smith
How many NBA Finals MVPs did Pippen win, with our without Jordan?

We can play this game all day. Keep digging that hole.

Also, how many NBA Finals games did Jordan lose at home after being up 24 points at half-time and how many NBA Finals deciding games did he lose by 39 points? You still haven't answered those questions.

Oh and how many times did Jordan miss the playoffs in his prime. Feel free to answer that one as well. I've got all day.


how many all defensive teams did MJ make without Pippen?...what about vice versa?

How many playoff games did MJ win without Pippen?....what about vice versa?

how many times did MJ get swept in the first round without Pippen?...what about vice versa?

come at me bro.....I forgot more hoop destroying Brain cell's after double dribble marathons....then you will ever know.

we can do this all dey ( thumps chest)
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Old 10-05-2012, 06:42 PM   #116
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Default Re: Barkley: ""I do think he can be better than Michael," Barkley said."

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaWolf24
how many all defensive teams did MJ make without Pippen?

How many playoff games did MJ win without Pippen?....what about vice versa?

how many times did MJ get swept in the first round without Pippen?...what about vice versa?

come at me bro.....I forgot more hoop destroying Brain cell's after double dribble marathons....then you will ever know.

we can do this all dey ( thumps chest)

You didn't answer one Kobe question.

I rest my case.

Jeff, the floor is yours.

P.S. "how many all defensive teams did MJ make without Pippen?" LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
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Old 10-05-2012, 06:42 PM   #117
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Default Re: Barkley: ""I do think he can be better than Michael," Barkley said."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevaeh
Jordan swept all of his Finals appearances against direct peers. No old players in their twilight years, no young bucks who didn't know how to handle the big stage. Jordan didn't choke, he "stepped up" or at the very least, still made his presence known through all of his title runs.

Lebron went invisible in 2 Finals already during his career. Those things tend to affect a player's overall ranking in a GOAT discussion. He'll be "One of Greats", but GOAT is already too late for Lebron.
See I don't understand this logic because since when was not making the Finals better than making the Finals?

I understand if you want to give Lebron a blackmark for his 2011 Finals but why his 2007 Finals?

Nobody expected him to go there and nobody really even expected him and his team to compete in that series. It is serious revisionist history to blame Lebron for his 2007 Finals loss.

Jordan's resume is practically perfect but my GOAT ranking is not based on resume/accomplishments. It is based on how good you are and Lebron could very well be better than MJ ever was.
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Old 10-05-2012, 06:47 PM   #118
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Default Re: Barkley: ""I do think he can be better than Michael," Barkley said."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legends66NBA7
Were just talking about the Cavs series in 1988 ?

Yes, Pippen started... 1 game... the last game of that series, which turned out great for the Bulls. Before that, he didn't have a game anywhere close to his game 5 or had no impact at all.

I never said Grant was better. I said it was arguable between them THAT year. Charles Oakley was better that series though.



Yes I did watch him play, he was one of my favourite players growing up.


- he played Great in Games 4 and 5 ( the deciding game 5 he was the difference)..Game 4 he played 30 minutes and had 15 points 5rebs and 2 Blk's...

no impact ?...especially for a rook?..RUserial?

- he started all of the games vs the Pistons.

recap:

By the end of the season Pippen was good enough to start in the playoff's...and come up huge for the Bull's in the Game 5 vs the Cavs...to help get them past the first round...

for the first time in what ...like 18 seasons
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Old 10-05-2012, 06:49 PM   #119
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Default Re: Barkley: ""I do think he can be better than Michael," Barkley said."

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ Leon Smith
You didn't answer one Kobe question.

I rest my case.

Jeff, the floor is yours.

P.S. "how many all defensive teams did MJ make without Pippen?" LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL


none....meanwhile Pippen made multiple all defensive teams without MJ...

The Bull's without Pippen and just MJ...were a horrible defensive team...and had no defensive presence what so ever.


(opens pocket)...get back son.
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Old 10-05-2012, 06:51 PM   #120
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Default Re: Barkley: ""I do think he can be better than Michael," Barkley said."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevaeh
Jordan swept all of his Finals appearances against direct peers. No old players in their twilight years, no young bucks who didn't know how to handle the big stage. Jordan didn't choke, he "stepped up" or at the very least, still made his presence known through all of his title runs.

Lebron went invisible in 2 Finals already during his career. Those things tend to affect a player's overall ranking in a GOAT discussion. He'll be "One of Greats", but GOAT is already too late for Lebron.

OK...Lebron performed inexcusably horribly in the '11 Finals. We get that. But seriously are we going to hold his legacy responsible for losing in the '07 Finals in which he was literally the leader at the age of 22 of a team that few people outside of Cleveland even expected to get that far? Would his legacy be better if he had dominated the '07 ECF but lost there in order to maintain a good Finals win %?
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