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Old 10-06-2012, 07:57 PM   #16
IGOTGAME
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Default Re: Battle of the Power Fowards: Kevin McHale vs. Pau Gasol

any comparison has to take into account that the Pau that won championships didn't exist until after he got bitched out by Celtics in the finals. Before that he was soft as hell and wilted under and bit of pressure. Because of this Kevin McHale had the better career. Gasol is has mentally weak for the majority of his career.
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Old 10-06-2012, 08:00 PM   #17
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Default Re: Battle of the Power Fowards: Kevin McHale vs. Pau Gasol

Mchale averaged 26 pts, 10 rebs, on 60%, while being 4th in MVP voting (behind only Magic, MJ, and Bird) in his prime, Pau has arguably never been a top 10 player, there's no way that Pau's better.
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Old 10-06-2012, 08:04 PM   #18
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Default Re: Battle of the Power Fowards: Kevin McHale vs. Pau Gasol

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Originally Posted by IGOTGAME
any comparison has to take into account that the Pau that won championships didn't exist until after he got bitched out by Celtics in the finals. Before that he was soft as hell and wilted under and bit of pressure. Because of this Kevin McHale had the better career. Gasol is has mentally weak for the majority of his career.
Not the first time I read that speech, and that is false. Before that finals Gasol was already World Champion and European Champion with Spain, ACB playoffs MVP, and some others thing that you have in mind but you does not name because it not fits with your speech.
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Old 10-06-2012, 08:08 PM   #19
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Default Re: Battle of the Power Fowards: Kevin McHale vs. Pau Gasol

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Originally Posted by BlackVVaves
It just can't be argued who the better defender was - McHale, like you said, is one of the great defenders, because of effectiveness and versatilty.

But, I'm interested to hear why you feel McHale was the better shot-blocker. Their blocks-per-game statistic is identical (1.7) and both players did/do a exceptional job of being mindful to try and keep balls they blocked in-play. Even when the outcome isn't to their desire, the effort is noticeable.



Well Gasol also plays 5 more minutes a game. And I think McHale smushed enough people that they would spend much of the time trying to not get blocked.
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Old 10-06-2012, 08:26 PM   #20
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Default Re: Battle of the Power Fowards: Kevin McHale vs. Pau Gasol

Pau's a great player but the choice is McHale.

Pau's the better passer, bit better rebounder and that's where it stops.
McHale's clearly a better defensive player. Also Kevin's better scorer, don't get me wrong, Pau's a great scorer, outside and in the post, but McHale was unstoppable in the post and could also hit from outside and his FT's.

Said it before, McHale in his short prime/peak (due to injuries and not being a starter 'till around '85) was a complete beast. If the league wasn't so full of amazing teams with great players together (majorly in the EC) in the 80's, the league would be simply destroyed like nothing by a team like those Celtics.
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Old 10-06-2012, 08:32 PM   #21
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Default Re: Battle of the Power Fowards: Kevin McHale vs. Pau Gasol

McHale was near unstoppable before he broke his foot. He was approaching impossible to defend for his career. He was just too good in the post.

Pau is incredibly skilled, but has never enjoyed the dominance McHale displayed in his peak.
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Old 10-06-2012, 08:43 PM   #22
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Default Re: Battle of the Power Fowards: Kevin McHale vs. Pau Gasol

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Originally Posted by TaLvsCuaL
Not the first time I read that speech, and that is false. Before that finals Gasol was already World Champion and European Champion with Spain, ACB playoffs MVP, and some others thing that you have in mind but you does not name because it not fits with your speech.

yea, and he was soft overseas. He was known for being mentally weak over there too. I saw him collapse in Eurocup. I saw him fold in playoff games and I've watched him fold numerous times in the NBA. Pau is just way more talented than the comp that he faced in Europe so he could get away with being soft. He got tested over hear and came up short. Remember this is the same guy that never weight trained until 2008-2009.

I guess in your narrative Pau never ran from the ball during critical moments in Memphis or early with the Lakers. Guess Shane Battier just made that criticism up in Memphis.

If someone could, can you find the original Pau Gasol to Lakers trade thread. I predicted this re-writing of his career back in 2007.

Last edited by IGOTGAME : 10-06-2012 at 08:46 PM.
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Old 10-06-2012, 09:14 PM   #23
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Default Re: Battle of the Power Fowards: Kevin McHale vs. Pau Gasol

Quote:
Originally Posted by IGOTGAME
yea, and he was soft overseas. He was known for being mentally weak over there too. I saw him collapse in Eurocup. I saw him fold in playoff games and I've watched him fold numerous times in the NBA. Pau is just way more talented than the comp that he faced in Europe so he could get away with being soft. He got tested over hear and came up short. Remember this is the same guy that never weight trained until 2008-2009.

I guess in your narrative Pau never ran from the ball during critical moments in Memphis or early with the Lakers. Guess Shane Battier just made that criticism up in Memphis.

If someone could, can you find the original Pau Gasol to Lakers trade thread. I predicted this re-writing of his career back in 2007.

His problem is not and was not being weak mentally, even more if you consider that He has been constantly used as a scapegoat whenever the Lakers have not worked, as has endured all transfer rumors, being forced to have a smaller role, etc. Despite all that he has continued making good things for the team with a humble and polite profile. In my opinion He is an incredibly strong mentally.


BTW I have read that which you have edited, something like "Spain basketball is known to be weak mentally", it is was ridiculous. At least you've rectified.
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Old 10-06-2012, 09:54 PM   #24
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Default Re: Battle of the Power Fowards: Kevin McHale vs. Pau Gasol

Mchale and its not even close.. Even Rodman and Grant were far better than Gasol.. Gasol looks good because of Kobe.. Gasol without Kobe = rich man kwame Brown.. Kobe made Gasol the player he was right now..
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Old 10-06-2012, 09:58 PM   #25
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Default Re: Battle of the Power Fowards: Kevin McHale vs. Pau Gasol

Quote:
Originally Posted by KOBE143
Mchale and its not even close.. Even Rodman and Grant were far better than Gasol.. Gasol looks good because of Kobe.. Gasol without Kobe = rich man kwame Brown.. Kobe made Gasol the player he was right now..
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Old 10-06-2012, 10:00 PM   #26
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Default Re: Battle of the Power Fowards: Kevin McHale vs. Pau Gasol

86 playoffs, nuff said.
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Old 10-06-2012, 11:12 PM   #27
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Default Re: Battle of the Power Fowards: Kevin McHale vs. Pau Gasol

Quote:
Originally Posted by KOBE143
Mchale and its not even close.. Even Rodman and Grant were far better than Gasol.. Gasol looks good because of Kobe.. Gasol without Kobe = rich man kwame Brown.. Kobe made Gasol the player he was right now..

People like you don't deserve Internet access.
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Old 10-07-2012, 05:03 AM   #28
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Default Re: Battle of the Power Fowards: Kevin McHale vs. Pau Gasol

K Mac, and it's not even close.

McHale, Jabbar, Wilt and Hakeem were the four greatest, most skilled post scorers in the history of the nba.

Pau is a mentally weak marshmallow puff.
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Old 10-07-2012, 09:03 AM   #29
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Default Re: Battle of the Power Fowards: Kevin McHale vs. Pau Gasol

Pau is one of the most well-rounded bigs of his generation, but McHale was much more dominant in the things he did well.
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Old 10-07-2012, 06:57 PM   #30
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Default Re: Battle of the Power Fowards: Kevin McHale vs. Pau Gasol

I usually look at both players peak and full prime. I usually rank players by their full prime, that accounts for the vast majority of my rankings, but with these 2 players, their primes and peaks are pretty much the same. For their peaks I'd compare 2010 Gasol to either '86 or '87 McHale. But both players had 3 year primes as well. '09-'11 For Pau and '86-'88 for McHale. So my comparisons for their primes apply to their peaks as well. Most players primes are more like 5 seasons.

Anyway, I'll start with scoring. Pau has a very nice skill set. He'll hit jump hooks with consistency with either hand, He has excellent footwork, and his overall fundamentals are as good as you could expect. He keeps the ball high which makes him an excellent finisher, particularly since he's 7'1" with long arms. He's also developed a sort of set shot, which has made him a solid mid-range shooter, though he preferred to play in the post where he was at his best, until Mike Brown's idiotic offense wasted that. Pau is also more than capable of facing up and scoring, often with a driving hook.

But despite Pau's excellent skill set, this goes to McHale. Kevin was just on another level as a scorer. He's probably one of the top 5 post scorers of all-time. Kareem and Shaq are the standard for post scorers, but McHale is comparable to anyone else who has played, imo. His up and under is famous for a reason. This was just a lethal move, he could go to it regardless of whether he was going to his left or right. And if he didn't do it close for a lay up, he could finish it off with his fadeaway, which was very difficult to block, and he had an excellent touch on it. McHale could also make jump hooks. And with his excellent footwork and shooting touch, it was nearly impossible to stop him when he got the ball in the post, he could even beat double teams when he wanted. Kevin could also hit mid-range jumpers, and expanded his range later in his career, but he didn't need this in his prime.

Passing goes to Gasol, who is maybe the best passing big man of the last few years. He's a brilliant passer and an unselfish player. McHale's reputation as a black hole is overstated, though. McHale was a solid passer, and he did find the open man with pretty good regularity, especially from '86 on.

Rebounding is an advantage I'd give to Gasol, who really became an impressive rebounder when he got stronger and tougher following the loss to the '08 Celtics. McHale was a solid rebounder himself, though.

Defense is a clear advantage for McHale. You could argue Gasol was a better rim protector, but it's not as clear, and both players had comparable shot blocking ability. However, McHale contributes in other ways defensively, particularly his ability to guard star small forwards. Check out the '86 ECSF when he did a phenomenal job on Nique.

And as far as intangibles, I like Gasol's unselfishness, but McHale's toughness really impressed me. Kevin played the '87 playoffs with a broken foot.

The difference is that mcHale was a top 5 player in both '86 and '87, and maybe just outside the top 5 in '88 behind only Bird, Jordan, Magic, Hakeem and Barkley. While Gasol was a borderline top 10 player, or in the lower part of the top 10.
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