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Old 10-13-2012, 02:23 AM   #16
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Default Re: Will it be a tragedy if Romney is elected and is given credit for a econmic recover

Ask Bush Sr. how he feels. Clinton benefited from his policies, or shall I say raising taxes.
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Old 10-13-2012, 02:25 AM   #17
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Default Re: Will it be a tragedy if Romney is elected and is given credit for a econmic recover

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Originally Posted by Jello
You rewriting history or just ignorant of it?



Just read about it, Hoover did the minimum he could because it was against his laissez-faire principles. Thats why he didn't win his reelection, people were tired of waiting for the economy to get better on its own.

FDR when elected then started to apply keinesian policies to try and solve the problem..
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Old 10-13-2012, 02:42 AM   #18
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Default Re: Will it be a tragedy if Romney is elected and is given credit for a econmic recover

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Originally Posted by B-hoop


Just read about it, Hoover did the minimum he could because it was against his laissez-faire principles. Thats why he didn't win his reelection, people were tired of waiting for the economy to get better on its own.

FDR when elected then started to apply keinesian policies to try and solve the problem..
My mistake. I was conflating the two wrongfully.
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Old 10-13-2012, 04:20 AM   #19
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Default Re: Will it be a tragedy if Romney is elected and is given credit for a econmic recover

all the jobs that went to china or india or wherever, they ain't ever coming back.
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Old 10-13-2012, 04:53 AM   #20
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Default Re: Will it be a tragedy if Romney is elected and is given credit for a econmic recover

I'm glad that there is a thread that mentions monetary policy

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Originally Posted by DCL
all the jobs that went to china or india or wherever, they ain't ever coming back.

Agreed but America still needs to find away to become a economy that produces goods that the world wants.

Anyways how concern should people be if inflation becomes a factor??? From what I've briefly read it suggest that this might be the time to raise interest rates. However, with foreclosures still happening and some of the currency concerns wouldn't the opposite be true???
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Old 10-13-2012, 05:05 AM   #21
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Default Re: Will it be a tragedy if Romney is elected and is given credit for a econmic recover

Sure why not, I don't vote am on disability.
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Old 10-13-2012, 10:07 AM   #22
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Default Re: Will it be a tragedy if Romney is elected and is given credit for a econmic recover

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Originally Posted by plowking
I've never seen a board so left wing and liberal with its views. Especially with how hard you guys push it and berate those with opposing views.
Its the same crowd that complains about choice and freedom as well. Joe and rufus seem to be the only ones with clear heads when it comes to thinking these things out.
This. I don't even have a horse in this race but am tempted to just troll the super-liberals because of how annoying they are.
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Old 10-13-2012, 10:08 AM   #23
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Default Re: Will it be a tragedy if Romney is elected and is given credit for a econmic recover

No what would be a tragedy is kids getting out of college and not finding a decent job, People who worked hard to save their whole life then are hit with inflation, Tradesman who are forced to make half as much because their job has been privatized.
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Old 10-13-2012, 11:11 AM   #24
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Default Re: Will it be a tragedy if Romney is elected and is given credit for a econmic recover

There is no way to reduce the debt other than through inflation. I mean, the US can't simply cut all its spending without bringing another recession (see Europe). I agree with the OP, the main problem that US economy faces right now is a crisis of confidence, given time the housing market will start to rebound because people are still being born and they still want to move to bigger houses, etc. The bubble in the market wasnt because too many house were built, it was a financial bubble. The housing market rebounding it will probably add 1-1.5 million jobs and pretty much jump-start the whole economy again.

The big dilemma in my opinion is that the recovery has been done through less than ideal means. Bankers brought the US to a crisis and instead of being penalized are actually being rewarded for it with a lot of free cash from the FED. That sucks but is the only way the US government could stop the crisis from turning into a serious depression.
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Old 10-13-2012, 11:49 AM   #25
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Default Re: Will it be a tragedy if Romney is elected and is given credit for a econmic recover

Quote:
Originally Posted by B-hoop
There is no way to reduce the debt other than through inflation. I mean, the US can't simply cut all its spending without bringing another recession (see Europe). I agree with the OP, the main problem that US economy faces right now is a crisis of confidence, given time the housing market will start to rebound because people are still being born and they still want to move to bigger houses, etc. The bubble in the market wasnt because too many house were built, it was a financial bubble. The housing market rebounding it will probably add 1-1.5 million jobs and pretty much jump-start the whole economy again.

The big dilemma in my opinion is that the recovery has been done through less than ideal means. Bankers brought the US to a crisis and instead of being penalized are actually being rewarded for it with a lot of free cash from the FED. That sucks but is the only way the US government could stop the crisis from turning into a serious depression.

Monetary inflation or price index???
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Old 10-13-2012, 12:32 PM   #26
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Default Re: Will it be a tragedy if Romney is elected and is given credit for a econmic recover

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Originally Posted by MMM
Monetary inflation or price index???

Monetary, though that will cause a spike in prices anyway. The debt is based on a fixed monetary value (e.g:1 trillion dollar) that measure is subjective since the dollar can easily change its value if the FED prints more money.

MV=PY (equation in portuguese dont know how it's written in english)

M= Currency available (M1 - M2)
V= Speed of circulation
P= Prices
Y= Product

If you raise M then P or Y will have to increase in an equal magnitude and a raise in P or Y will normally lead to higher income for the government allowing it to lower the debt or spend more. This will only work of course if the economy doesnt enter into a new recession.
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Old 10-13-2012, 12:48 PM   #27
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Default Re: Will it be a tragedy if Romney is elected and is given credit for a econmic recover

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Originally Posted by Kobe 4 The Win
Our economy is on the mend? lol

mend- to make (something broken, worn, torn, or otherwise damaged) whole, sound, or usable by repairing: to mend old clothes; to mend a broken toy.
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Old 10-13-2012, 01:18 PM   #28
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Default Re: Will it be a tragedy if Romney is elected and is given credit for a econmic recover

This is the worst fvcking thing about the whole "team" aspect of politics. Who gives a shit who's in office as long as the economy recovers? I'd rather there be a president that I can't stand in office while we have a booming economy than a president I really like while I'm struggling to pay my bills.
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Old 10-13-2012, 03:12 PM   #29
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Default Re: Will it be a tragedy if Romney is elected and is given credit for a econmic recover

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jello
They are accurate. Shoveling free money to the banks to help releverage instead of allowing them to feel the pain of deleveraging is a solution to you? The fed has entered the political arena and it's pretty unprecedented. Bernanke is Obama's lapdog and has ordered another round of quantitative easing during election season. Of course, you can eat up all the recovery bullshit while the bankers tink glasses and reap obscene profits, and in 10 or so years, shit will definitely hit the fan and the cycle repeats itself.

The banks are releveraging? Um hello but have you heard about Basel 3, or the increased core capital requirements for banks? If anything the economy is deleveraging (see Richard Koo's very good piece on the 'balance sheet recession') rather than releveraging.

Plus can I just say that the Fed does NOT control the interest rate of the entire economy? It controls the Fed Discount Window (where banks borrow from when desperate for cash and in emergencies) which is linked to rates on some contracts, but definitely not the whole rate for the economy.
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Old 10-13-2012, 07:02 PM   #30
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Default Re: Will it be a tragedy if Romney is elected and is given credit for a econmic recover

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinNYC
Well I just remember all the predictions in 2009 that the dollar would collapse and economy would be like Zimbabwe's.

The Austrian predictions aren't from 2009, they've been predicting this for 30-40 years. They would have predicted this 100 years ago if you laid out all the information. Once you start down this road of paper money and central banking, economic failure stops being a matter of "if" and become a matter of "when."

America is in a particularly precarious situation, due to the dollars status as the worlds reserve currency. This has allowed the US to play this game far longer than other countries in similar circumstances have been able to.

Austrians don't predict the dollar will necessarily collapse, or that we'll be like Zimbabwe. What they say is that eventually, interest rates will rise, and the US government will not be able to keep all of its financial promises. That's pretty much it.

At that point, there are MANY directions we can go, depending on how the politicians/people react. Does the Fed allow interest rates to rise, and allow the recession to hit us full force? Or does it increase the QE to even more unprecedented levels? The way other countries react is just as important. Do other countries lose faith in the dollar as the reserve currency?

I've read some Krugman and other folks, you should really check out some Austrians. If you're into economics, it's interesting just to see what other people come up with. When I read Keynesian stuff, it perplexes me that anyone could think that way, but it's still interesting. And definitely challenging.

Quote:
So here's my question. Do you agree with the Austrians because you think they are accurate or do you agree with them because their ideas fit your worldview.

My worldview was challenged by economics, and my world view has changed quite a bit. I used to think minimum wage was righteous, now I realize it's an economic fallacy. Many of my strongest core beliefs about humanity and politics have been challenged by Austrian/free market economics. It's definitely been an interesting ride.

But I do think they are right or else I wouldn't talk about them so much ;).
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