Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > InsideHoops Main Basketball Forums > NBA Forum

NBA Forum NBA Message Board - NBA Fan Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-13-2012, 06:25 PM   #16
tmacattack33
NBA rookie of the year
 
tmacattack33's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 6,310
tmacattack33 has not been impressing people
Default Re: At their peak - Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, and Scottie Pippen

Also if you want to talk stats, let's talk about the real season.

Penny: 22.0 pts, .568 TS%, 4.5 reb, 6.6 assists, 3.1 TO (over 41 games)

Grant Hill: 20.9 pts, .514 TS%, 7.1 reb, 5.8 assists, 3.0 TO (over 13 games)

Hill only played playoff 13 games in Detroit, and that's a small sample size, so what we are mostly looking at here is Penny's numbers. Which are great playoff numbers (better TS% than even Lebron).
tmacattack33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2012, 06:38 PM   #17
tmacattack33
NBA rookie of the year
 
tmacattack33's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 6,310
tmacattack33 has not been impressing people
Default Re: At their peak - Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, and Scottie Pippen

Pippen's playoff stats in the 90's on the Bulls for comparison

19.2 pts, .521 TS%, 7.9 reb, 5.5 assists, 3.0 TO (over 136 games)
tmacattack33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2012, 06:42 PM   #18
Myth
NBA Legend and Hall of Famer
 
Myth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 23,453
Myth is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMyth is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMyth is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMyth is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMyth is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMyth is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMyth is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMyth is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMyth is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMyth is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMyth is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: At their peak - Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, and Scottie Pippen

Quote:
Originally Posted by scm5
The thing is, we're just talking about peaks. Peak play, Pippen was better. Hill was more consistently good, and put up better numbers than Pippen overall, when he was healthy. Enough to cover the gap defensively.

I'm not sure what you are saying, because you say 2 things that contradict each other: "Peak play, Pippen was better" and "[Hill did] enough to cover the gap defensively."

But I was well aware that this is just talking about peaks. I believe Pippen's peak was better than Hill's. I only mentioned Hill's injuries, because I think that Hill would have had an even better peak in his career if it weren't for injuries.
Myth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2012, 06:43 PM   #19
StateOfMind12
Banned
 
StateOfMind12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 5,838
StateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: At their peak - Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, and Scottie Pippen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clippersfan86
Penny clearly doesn't fit in with how short his prime is. Hill+Pippen are evenly matched and debatable. VERY similar players. Hill was better score, Pippen better defender IMO.
We're talking peak though, not prime, so when they were all at their best. I think you could argue Penny was better. He was pretty dominant in 1996 and he stepped up big time when Shaq went out that season. He was 3rd in MVP that season because of how big time he was.
StateOfMind12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2012, 06:50 PM   #20
Clippersfan86
Banned
 
Clippersfan86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 23,737
Clippersfan86 has a near all-star reputation hereClippersfan86 has a near all-star reputation hereClippersfan86 has a near all-star reputation hereClippersfan86 has a near all-star reputation hereClippersfan86 has a near all-star reputation hereClippersfan86 has a near all-star reputation here
Default Re: At their peak - Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, and Scottie Pippen

Quote:
Originally Posted by StateOfMind12
We're talking peak though, not prime, so when they were all at their best. I think you could argue Penny was better. He was pretty dominant in 1996 and he stepped up big time when Shaq went out that season. He was 3rd in MVP that season because of how big time he was.

Again Penny's best season doesn't match the other two's. Hill had the best single season of the bunch and one of the best in NBA history giving just declining Jordan and Malone a run for their money for MVP.
Clippersfan86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2012, 06:51 PM   #21
StateOfMind12
Banned
 
StateOfMind12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 5,838
StateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: At their peak - Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, and Scottie Pippen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clippersfan86
Again Penny's best season doesn't match the other two's. Hill had the best single season of the bunch and one of the best in NBA history giving just declining Jordan and Malone a run for their money for MVP.
This is based on what though?

Penny's peak was just as good as Hill's, if not better. Hill was never as good of a playoff performer as Penny and Penny and Hill were both 3rd in MVP voting at one point. What exactly separates Hill from Penny?

You can't just pass your opinion as a fact without even backing it up.
StateOfMind12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2012, 06:56 PM   #22
Clippersfan86
Banned
 
Clippersfan86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 23,737
Clippersfan86 has a near all-star reputation hereClippersfan86 has a near all-star reputation hereClippersfan86 has a near all-star reputation hereClippersfan86 has a near all-star reputation hereClippersfan86 has a near all-star reputation hereClippersfan86 has a near all-star reputation here
Default Re: At their peak - Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, and Scottie Pippen

Quote:
Originally Posted by StateOfMind12
This is based on what though?

Penny's peak was just as good as Hill's, if not better. Hill was never as good of a playoff performer as Penny and Hill was never voted as high in the MVP rankings like Penny was in 1996.

You can't just pass your opinion as a fact without even backing it up.

Grant Hill's MVP runner up season... was 99 right?

25.8 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 5.2 apg, 1.5 spg on 56.5 TS%. Not to mention Hill's always been a respectable/good defender, although not as good as he has been the last 5-6 years. Penny on the other hand was a mediocre defender who could be classified as average at best.

Penny was an awesome and unique talent but he can't touch prime Hill. As for Pippen his numbers may not be quite as good as peak Hill BUT he's a top 3 perimeter defender of all time and has a case for the top spot in that regard, that alone puts him above Penny IMO.

Penny is one of those players that have become insanely overhyped long after they are gone. I watched him and he was very very gifted and good. That being said his prime was extremely short lived and outside of getting carried by young Shaq didn't do much to impress me. People act like he's Lebron but forget that he only had what 4 seasons as a top caliber player, then vanished? By comparison Tmac and Vince Carter who people act like were a flash in the pan had at leasy 7-8 seasons at the highest level at their position.

Last edited by Clippersfan86 : 10-13-2012 at 06:58 PM.
Clippersfan86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2012, 06:59 PM   #23
tmacattack33
NBA rookie of the year
 
tmacattack33's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 6,310
tmacattack33 has not been impressing people
Default Re: At their peak - Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, and Scottie Pippen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clippersfan86
Again Penny's best season doesn't match the other two's. Hill had the best single season of the bunch and one of the best in NBA history giving just declining Jordan and Malone a run for their money for MVP.


Penny's year and level of play in 1996 is something that Grant Hill never matched.

Penny was ahead of Malone in voting in 1996 by the way.

And I hope you didn't just try to say 1996 had a low level of top tier players, because those were some of the NBA's Golden Years. That was a great year for MJ, David Robinson (2nd in MVP voting), Pippen himself, Hakeem Olajuwon, and Karl Malone. It was an amazing time for the league.
tmacattack33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2012, 07:00 PM   #24
Clippersfan86
Banned
 
Clippersfan86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 23,737
Clippersfan86 has a near all-star reputation hereClippersfan86 has a near all-star reputation hereClippersfan86 has a near all-star reputation hereClippersfan86 has a near all-star reputation hereClippersfan86 has a near all-star reputation hereClippersfan86 has a near all-star reputation here
Default Re: At their peak - Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, and Scottie Pippen

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmacattack33
Penny's year and level of play in 1996 is something that Grant Hill never matched.

Penny was ahead of Malone in voting in 1996 by the way.

And I hope you didn't just try to say 1996 had a low level of top tier players, because those were some of the NBA's Golden Years. That was a great year for MJ, David Robinson (2nd in MVP voting), Pippen himself, Hakeem Olajuwon, and Karl Malone .

Hill in 99>>>Penny in 96.
Clippersfan86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2012, 07:01 PM   #25
StateOfMind12
Banned
 
StateOfMind12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 5,838
StateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: At their peak - Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, and Scottie Pippen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clippersfan86
Grant Hill's MVP runner up season... was 99 right?
No, Hill's highest MVP ranked year was 1997 where he was 3rd just like Penny was in 1996.

Hill wasn't even top 5 in MVP voting in 1999, don't know what you're talking about here.

Quote:
That being said his prime was extremely short lived and outside of getting carried by young Shaq didn't do much to impress me. People act like he's Lebron but forget that he only had what 4 seasons as a top caliber player, then vanished?
We're talking peak here, best season and at their absolute best, who cares how long it lasted?

Plus, a large reason why Penny was 3rd in MVP voting was because of how much he stepped up when Shaq was out. The Penny needs Shaq argument is invalid.

Quote:
By comparison Tmac and Vince Carter who people act like were a flash in the pan had at leasy 7-8 seasons at the highest level at their position.
Yes, Penny was pretty much McGrady before McGrady, more efficient, lesser volume, but similar overall.
StateOfMind12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2012, 07:03 PM   #26
Clippersfan86
Banned
 
Clippersfan86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 23,737
Clippersfan86 has a near all-star reputation hereClippersfan86 has a near all-star reputation hereClippersfan86 has a near all-star reputation hereClippersfan86 has a near all-star reputation hereClippersfan86 has a near all-star reputation hereClippersfan86 has a near all-star reputation here
Default Re: At their peak - Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, and Scottie Pippen

Quote:
Originally Posted by StateOfMind12
No, Hill's highest MVP ranked year was 1997 where he was 3rd just like Penny was in 1996.

Hill wasn't even top 5 in MVP voting in 1999, don't know what you're talking about here.


We're talking peak here, best season and at their absolute best, who cares how long it lasted?

Plus, a large reason why Penny was 3rd in MVP voting was because of how much he stepped up when Shaq was out. The Penny needs Shaq argument is invalid.


Yes, Penny was pretty much McGrady before McGrady, more efficient, lesser volume, but similar overall.

I put a question mark because I wasn't sure which year it was. I personally think 99 was his best year though and that's why I used it. Worse APG but 4+ ppg more and better defense. Nobody seems to be factoring how much better of a defender Hill was than Penny BTW.
Clippersfan86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2012, 07:05 PM   #27
StateOfMind12
Banned
 
StateOfMind12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 5,838
StateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStateOfMind12 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: At their peak - Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, and Scottie Pippen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clippersfan86
I put a question mark because I wasn't sure which year it was. I personally think 99 was his best year though and that's why I used it. Worse APG but 4+ ppg more and better defense. Nobody seems to be factoring how much better of a defender Hill was than Penny BTW.
Hill wasn't really that good of a defender until recently as he aged. He wasn't that good of a defender in his Pistons days. He was still better than Penny, no doubt, but he wasn't some all-defensive caliber player.
StateOfMind12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2012, 07:07 PM   #28
Clippersfan86
Banned
 
Clippersfan86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 23,737
Clippersfan86 has a near all-star reputation hereClippersfan86 has a near all-star reputation hereClippersfan86 has a near all-star reputation hereClippersfan86 has a near all-star reputation hereClippersfan86 has a near all-star reputation hereClippersfan86 has a near all-star reputation here
Default Re: At their peak - Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, and Scottie Pippen

BTW Penny was the better playoff performer no doubt although he choked in 99. I shouldn't make it sound like it's not debatable but when defense+efficiency is factored in I prefer Hill strongly over Penny.
Clippersfan86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2012, 07:07 PM   #29
Clippersfan86
Banned
 
Clippersfan86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 23,737
Clippersfan86 has a near all-star reputation hereClippersfan86 has a near all-star reputation hereClippersfan86 has a near all-star reputation hereClippersfan86 has a near all-star reputation hereClippersfan86 has a near all-star reputation hereClippersfan86 has a near all-star reputation here
Default Re: At their peak - Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, and Scottie Pippen

Quote:
Originally Posted by StateOfMind12
Hill wasn't really that good of a defender until recently as he aged. He wasn't that good of a defender in his Pistons days. He was still better than Penny, no doubt, but he wasn't some all-defensive caliber player.

I already said that . Not a "fantastic" or elite perimeter defender like later in his career but at least "good" or "above average" defensively in younger years, better than Penny defensively.
Clippersfan86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2012, 07:10 PM   #30
tpols
7-time NBA All-Star
 
tpols's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 12,659
tpols is popular on this boardtpols is popular on this boardtpols is popular on this boardtpols is popular on this boardtpols is popular on this board
Default Re: At their peak - Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, and Scottie Pippen

99 was probably the weakest year in the nba in the past 30-40 years.
tpols is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:27 AM.




NBA Basketball Forum Key Links:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
NBA Mock Draft
NBA Free Agents
All-Star Weekend
---
High School Basketball
Streetball
---
InsideHoops Twitter
Search Our Site













Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy