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Old 10-15-2012, 12:06 AM   #61
tmacattack33
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Default Re: At their peak - Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, and Scottie Pippen

Quote:
Originally Posted by L.Kizzle
Why Pippen, McGrady would be a better comparison with the other 2.

Yeah i don't really get the comparison either, i guess the OP just threw Pippen in there since he was a similar versatile wing player who played at the same time they did.
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Old 10-15-2012, 12:07 AM   #62
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Default Re: At their peak - Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, and Scottie Pippen

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmacattack33
Yeah i don't really get the comparison either, i guess the OP just threw Pippen in there since he was a similar versatile wing player who played at the same time they did.
I threw Pippen's name out there because I'm in a voting panel for peaks on another site and Pippen's peak was considered better than both. I don't agree with it but I wanted to see how many others did agree with it.
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Old 10-15-2012, 01:08 AM   #63
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Default Re: At their peak - Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, and Scottie Pippen

Quote:
Originally Posted by StateOfMind12
I threw Pippen's name out there because I'm in a voting panel for peaks on another site and Pippen's peak was considered better than both. I don't agree with it but I wanted to see how many others did agree with it.
Thats because Pippen is the best out of the three. He brings the most to the table. But to be honest, all three or four counting McGrady are on the same level
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Old 10-15-2012, 01:11 AM   #64
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Default Re: At their peak - Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, and Scottie Pippen

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Originally Posted by L.Kizzle
Why Pippen, McGrady would be a better comparison with the other 2.
Why wouldnt Pip be in a discussion between these player?
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Old 10-15-2012, 01:27 AM   #65
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Default Re: At their peak - Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, and Scottie Pippen

Quote:
Originally Posted by 97 bulls
Thats because Pippen is the best out of the three. He brings the most to the table. But to be honest, all three or four counting McGrady are on the same level

Pip was somehow better than Penny despite Penny making the All NBA 1st teams twice in his first 3 years, and only healthy ones really?

Penny was the only real first option out of the three.

I'll say it again when comparing Hill and Penny strictly. Out of the two, what was Hill better at?

Shooter? Penny.
Post Player? Penny.
Playmaker? Penny.
Defender? Penny.
Drive Penetration? Penny.
Passer? Penny.
More efficient? Penny.

Hill has no case over Penny in their primes.
When you look above, the same thing applies for Penny vs Pippen outside of defense. Everything else Penny had him pinned too.
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Old 10-15-2012, 01:37 AM   #66
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Default Re: At their peak - Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, and Scottie Pippen

Quote:
Originally Posted by plowking
Pip was somehow better than Penny despite Penny making the All NBA 1st teams twice in his first 3 years, and only healthy ones really?

Penny was the only real first option out of the three.

I'll say it again when comparing Hill and Penny strictly. Out of the two, what was Hill better at?

Shooter? Penny.
Post Player? Penny.
Playmaker? Penny.
Defender? Penny.
Drive Penetration? Penny.
Passer? Penny.
More efficient? Penny.

Hill has no case over Penny in their primes.
When you look above, the same thing applies for Penny vs Pippen outside of defense. Everything else Penny had him pinned too.
I don't think Penny was better at passing. Or even running an offense. He was a SG/SF playing PG just like the others.
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Old 10-15-2012, 01:47 AM   #67
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Default Re: At their peak - Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, and Scottie Pippen

Quote:
Originally Posted by 97 bulls
I don't think Penny was better at passing. Or even running an offense. He was a SG/SF playing PG just like the others.

You don't think Penny was better at passing?
Pippen never showed the creativity or court vision Penny had.

Running an offense? That's so obscure and hard to prove, but Penny's track record speaks for itself. He adjusted without Shaq there, and when Shaq was there he lead them to a 17-5 record while Shaq sat out injured the first 22 games of the 95-96 season.
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Old 10-15-2012, 01:54 AM   #68
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Default Re: At their peak - Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, and Scottie Pippen

When u are talking MJ, Bron, Hill, Pippen, Drexler, Penny, Kobe, and T-Mac, u are talking guys in that 6'6 to 6'9 range that are freakish athletes, very good-great defenders, very good-great scorers, very good-great passers, and very good-great rebounders. U literally get the TOTAL PACKAGE which is something that makes them unique even amongst Bird and Magic. Not saying all of those guys are better than Bird and Magic, but these guys defensively and athletic ability wise gives them literally no weaknesses.

When it comes to the three guys mentioned for this post, I think Penny was the most polished and best scorer. U gotta realize Penny played his best years with the Diesel and running PG, so his scoring capabilities (like Magic) were apparent when the game was on the line or when it was time to takeover. U can't just look at his stats, even though Penny was an excellent scoring PG.

Defense wise,it clearly goes to Pippen. Rebounding wise, I would roll with Hill. Passing wise, I would take Penny. Peak value wise, I'm gonna take Hill. All at their best, I'm taking G Hill. He was a triple double threat who could get 26 a night and provide very good defense, even back then. After that I would take Penny and then Pippen.
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Old 10-15-2012, 02:02 AM   #69
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Default Re: At their peak - Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, and Scottie Pippen

Quote:
Originally Posted by bizil
When u are talking MJ, Bron, Hill, Pippen, Drexler, Penny, Kobe, and T-Mac, u are talking guys in that 6'6 to 6'9 range that are freakish athletes, very good-great defenders, very good-great scorers, very good-great passers, and very good-great rebounders. U literally get the TOTAL PACKAGE which is something that makes them unique even amongst Bird and Magic. Not saying all of those guys are better than Bird and Magic, but these guys defensively and athletic ability wise gives them literally no weaknesses.

When it comes to the three guys mentioned for this post, I think Penny was the most polished and best scorer. U gotta realize Penny played his best years with the Diesel and running PG, so his scoring capabilities (like Magic) were apparent when the game was on the line or when it was time to takeover. U can't just look at his stats, even though Penny was an excellent scoring PG.

Defense wise,it clearly goes to Pippen. Rebounding wise, I would roll with Hill. Passing wise, I would take Penny. Peak value wise, I'm gonna take Hill. All at their best, I'm taking G Hill. He was a triple double threat who could get 26 a night and provide very good defense, even back then. After that I would take Penny and then Pippen.

Hill never played with a great rebounder in his life. Look at all those teams he played on. The two seasons he averaged 9rpg, he was the leading rebounder. In one of those seasons T-Mac was the second best rebounder on the team...

Penny was playing with Horace Grant and Shaq. Two fantastic rebounders. I don't think there is some great difference in their rebounding abilities. They were both pulling down similar offensive rebounding numbers in their primes.
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Old 10-15-2012, 02:04 AM   #70
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Default Re: At their peak - Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, and Scottie Pippen

Quote:
Originally Posted by plowking
You don't think Penny was better at passing?
Pippen never showed the creativity or court vision Penny had.

Running an offense? That's so obscure and hard to prove, but Penny's track record speaks for itself. He adjusted without Shaq there, and when Shaq was there he lead them to a 17-5 record while Shaq sat out injured the first 22 games of the 95-96 season.
Court vision is such nonsense. How do you make that determination? Especially with players at this level? Assists? Flashy passes? T0s?

And im not implying Hardaway wasnt great at running a team. I just think Pippen was better.
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Old 10-15-2012, 02:09 AM   #71
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Default Re: At their peak - Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, and Scottie Pippen

Quote:
Originally Posted by 97 bulls
Court vision is such nonsense. How do you make that determination? Especially with players at this level? Assists? Flashy passes? T0s?

And im not implying Hardaway wasnt great at running a team. I just think Pippen was better.

What made Pippen better at running a team?
Court vision? I'm basing that on flashy passes and splitting those impossible gaps. Pippen was much more of a bread and butter passer. He racked up assists in the triangle offense, but never did anything extraordinary. Penny had some passes that reminded you of Magic on the fast break, and Bird in the half court.
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Old 10-15-2012, 02:10 AM   #72
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Default Re: At their peak - Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, and Scottie Pippen

Quote:
Originally Posted by plowking
Hill never played with a great rebounder in his life. Look at all those teams he played on. The two seasons he averaged 9rpg, he was the leading rebounder. In one of those seasons T-Mac was the second best rebounder on the team...

Penny was playing with Horace Grant and Shaq. Two fantastic rebounders. I don't think there is some great difference in their rebounding abilities. They were both pulling down similar offensive rebounding numbers in their primes.

I think all of three guys were great rebounders for their size. But if I had to pick, I would take Hill. Gotta remember Hill and Pippen were both in that 225 pound range while Penny was more slender and most likely 10-15 pounds lighter. Hill and Pippen also defended PF's and had more experience banging with bigger players head on than Penny did. But all three were great rebounders for their sizes and I agree with u!
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Old 10-15-2012, 02:15 AM   #73
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Default Re: At their peak - Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, and Scottie Pippen

I think Hill and Pippen are great passers no doubt. But Penny I feel was closer to that Bird, Magic, Bron level of epic passing. In terms of seeing the play before it happens and threading the needle type of shit. I'm not saying Pippen or Hill weren't capable of that, but they werent quite on the level of Penny in that regard. When u have players so close in terms of assist output or intelligence, it comes down to little things like that to determine a Penny, Magic, Bron, or Bird over other great 6-6 to 6'9 passers like Hill, Pippen, Mac, MJ,Kobe, or Drexler.
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Old 10-15-2012, 02:21 AM   #74
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Default Re: At their peak - Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, and Scottie Pippen

Quote:
Originally Posted by plowking
What made Pippen better at running a team?
Court vision? I'm basing that on flashy passes and splitting those impossible gaps. Pippen was much more of a bread and butter passer. He racked up assists in the triangle offense, but never did anything extraordinary. Penny had some passes that reminded you of Magic on the fast break, and Bird in the half court.
Pippen could make flashy passes.

Pippen was better at running a tram based on the Six championships, the top ratings in offense four times out of the eight he ran the Bulls offense.

And let's not forget that Pippen dominated Hardaway in 96 ECF.
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Old 10-15-2012, 02:24 AM   #75
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Default Re: At their peak - Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, and Scottie Pippen

Quote:
Originally Posted by bizil
I think all of three guys were great rebounders for their size. But if I had to pick, I would take Hill. Gotta remember Hill and Pippen were both in that 225 pound range while Penny was more slender and most likely 10-15 pounds lighter. Hill and Pippen also defended PF's and had more experience banging with bigger players head on than Penny did. But all three were great rebounders for their sizes and I agree with u!
How many boards would Hill pull if he had played with Shaq and Grant or Rodman?
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