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Old 10-14-2012, 05:08 PM   #16
JtotheIzzo
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Default Re: Should the government cut entitlements?

Quote:
Originally Posted by longhornfan1234
I want to read your opinions on this topic.

Seeing how you're a massive right wing blowhard I guess the entitlements you are referring to is shit like welfare and food stamps.

The best post in this thread thus far is Nanners, as I think he pretty much nailed a middle of the road responsible view on the issue, but just for fun, lets placate your idea and stop helping the poor because some people abuse the system and it has become too costly (I am am of course going to ignore all the other spending the government does, some of which Nanners touched on, to humor you).

So now the poor get nothing, great, they will all go become entrepreneurs and make millions, or maybe they will get off their lazy ass and work at McDonald's.

Doesn't really solve much for government spending as crime will increase, therefore policing costs will go up. A sharp spike in crime will lead to less money flowing and less earners earning (less tourism, less people being mobile, checking out new things etc...).

People will get sick more often, and with no healthcare they are going to wind up clogging ERs throughout the country costing the government likely more than they would if these people could have used their healthcare they don't have and caught their ailments earlier in the process.

The housing market will sink as many neighborhoods become worse off and more dangerous, and with lower income people unable to get a mortgage everyone who invested in real estate will continue to suffer and the current market will stay depressed longer. Not to mention the fact their will be less people making rent, and with less renters even more wealthy people will lose out on their investments and the real estate market will further depress.

The problem with the right as they are currently viewing the world is that they focus on the minutia of happenstance which supports their point of view rather than examining the mountain of evidence that may contradict it.

Spending is too high, but blanket cuts need to be made across the board and taxes need to go up where they can be supported. If you aren't rich and you vote Republican you are basically a rube who bought into someone else's BS.

People can talk about Obamabots all day and their may be some truth to the bandwagon effect, but to do that and then go on spewing the nonsense that is coming out of the right wing Super Pacs? C'mon man, spare us all the annoyance.

Mitt Romney isn't dumb and the right has many good ideas, but the trouble is promoting the best plan would lie too close to where the current regime stands and that doesn't bode well for the goals of the Super Pacs.

So what happens? They spoon feed their base a mealy mixture of patriotism, manhood, and self-reliance, and like drones the base repeats the talking points while they sit in their home, curtains drawn, in the comfort of their warm, wet diaper as the reassuring words of Sean Hannity and Bill O'Reilly help them end their day.

The OP is one of these people, and he got played.

The truth is in the middle, everyone sees, but neither party wants people to see it, that is their plan, and people like the OP are pawns.

Last edited by JtotheIzzo : 10-14-2012 at 05:11 PM.
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Old 10-14-2012, 06:40 PM   #17
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Default Re: Should the government cut entitlements?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmulls
Because for every dude cheating millions on his taxes there are millions of n!ggas getting $200 a month for food stamps that they trade for crack.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/18/us...rug-tests.html

Florida actually tried drug testing welfare recipients. They found that it actually cost the state more money to perform the tests. 2.6% of those receiving welfare actually failed the drug test.

There goes that myth.
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Old 10-14-2012, 07:11 PM   #18
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Default Re: Should the government cut entitlements?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanners
yes, but start by taking entitlements from the rich

start by taking away the massive subsidies given to the fossil fuel industry. lets see if they can compete on the open market without government handouts.

take away the huge tax breaks and loopholes for rich people that allow guys like mitt romney to pay a lower % of his income to tax than I do (im no millionaire).

the govt spent $250 billion on subsidies and corporate tax breaks last year. end corporate welfare, then you can talk about ending welfare for poor people.
The best political post I've seen on here.
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Old 10-14-2012, 07:58 PM   #19
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Default Re: Should the government cut entitlements?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarcastic
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/18/us...rug-tests.html

Florida actually tried drug testing welfare recipients. They found that it actually cost the state more money to perform the tests. 2.6% of those receiving welfare actually failed the drug test.

There goes that myth.
Not that I could give a single shit what drugs you're taking (even if it is using money from the government), but either those were some cheap ass drug tests or poor people use drugs far, far less than people with decent incomes.
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Old 10-14-2012, 09:50 PM   #20
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Default Re: Should the government cut entitlements?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JtotheIzzo
Seeing how you're a massive right wing blowhard I guess the entitlements you are referring to is shit like welfare and food stamps.

The best post in this thread thus far is Nanners, as I think he pretty much nailed a middle of the road responsible view on the issue, but just for fun, lets placate your idea and stop helping the poor because some people abuse the system and it has become too costly (I am am of course going to ignore all the other spending the government does, some of which Nanners touched on, to humor you).

So now the poor get nothing, great, they will all go become entrepreneurs and make millions, or maybe they will get off their lazy ass and work at McDonald's.

Doesn't really solve much for government spending as crime will increase, therefore policing costs will go up. A sharp spike in crime will lead to less money flowing and less earners earning (less tourism, less people being mobile, checking out new things etc...).

People will get sick more often, and with no healthcare they are going to wind up clogging ERs throughout the country costing the government likely more than they would if these people could have used their healthcare they don't have and caught their ailments earlier in the process.

The housing market will sink as many neighborhoods become worse off and more dangerous, and with lower income people unable to get a mortgage everyone who invested in real estate will continue to suffer and the current market will stay depressed longer. Not to mention the fact their will be less people making rent, and with less renters even more wealthy people will lose out on their investments and the real estate market will further depress.

The problem with the right as they are currently viewing the world is that they focus on the minutia of happenstance which supports their point of view rather than examining the mountain of evidence that may contradict it.

Spending is too high, but blanket cuts need to be made across the board and taxes need to go up where they can be supported. If you aren't rich and you vote Republican you are basically a rube who bought into someone else's BS.

People can talk about Obamabots all day and their may be some truth to the bandwagon effect, but to do that and then go on spewing the nonsense that is coming out of the right wing Super Pacs? C'mon man, spare us all the annoyance.

Mitt Romney isn't dumb and the right has many good ideas, but the trouble is promoting the best plan would lie too close to where the current regime stands and that doesn't bode well for the goals of the Super Pacs.

So what happens? They spoon feed their base a mealy mixture of patriotism, manhood, and self-reliance, and like drones the base repeats the talking points while they sit in their home, curtains drawn, in the comfort of their warm, wet diaper as the reassuring words of Sean Hannity and Bill O'Reilly help them end their day.

The OP is one of these people, and he got played.

The truth is in the middle, everyone sees, but neither party wants people to see it, that is their plan, and people like the OP are pawns.





I'm a moderate Republican. It was hard for me to read this bullshit. Contrary to modern myth, there was not a hoard of people just dying and starving before welfare. Charity and private unemployment insurance and associations like lodges all addressed the need. When welfare was created though the insurance and lodger were crowded out and charity shrank. Shit now...if welfare went away it would be a big mess.
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Old 10-14-2012, 09:52 PM   #21
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Default Re: Should the government cut entitlements?

Actually... I believe we should cut subsidies for oil companies. Americans need learn to do shit on their own, no more freebies.
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Old 10-14-2012, 11:28 PM   #22
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Default Re: Should the government cut entitlements?

Quote:
Originally Posted by longhornfan1234
Actually... I believe we should cut subsidies for oil companies. Americans need learn to do shit on their own, no more freebies.

If you think gas is high now...
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Old 10-14-2012, 11:37 PM   #23
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Default Re: Should the government cut entitlements?

Quote:
Originally Posted by longhornfan1234
I'm a moderate Republican.

That's what every conservative says, the reality is a bit different.
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Old 10-15-2012, 12:17 AM   #24
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Default Re: Should the government cut entitlements?

Even thou the vast majority of Americans would prefer the government raise taxes on corporations and high income individuals. I think we all know that entitlements are going to be cut no matter what. The medicaid income test will be lowered, Social security will be raised to age 70, and Medicare will receive cuts on the suppliers side. The government will insist that the cuts will affect providers only, but its a safe bet that big corporations will pass on the cuts to the recipients.

Its kind of funny, Americans believe they have all this control and choice, but in reality Obama and Romney are far more similar than they are different. Both will never prosecute Wall Street executives for fraud, both will exercise global influence and dominate weaker nations, and neither will change Washington significantly. The grand bargain is coming no matter who wins. (Its going to be Obama)

Last edited by MavsSuperFan : 10-15-2012 at 12:27 AM.
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Old 10-15-2012, 12:30 AM   #25
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Default Re: Should the government cut entitlements?

Quote:
Originally Posted by longhornfan1234
Actually... I believe we should cut subsidies for oil companies. Americans need learn to do shit on their own, no more freebies.

That's fine. As long as all energy subsidies are cut and the free market determines what energy people use. Can't be one way or the other.

Of course it's still going to be oil, natural gas and coal for 75% of the usage.

I can bet that the government (state/federal) make more money off oil companies than the tax breaks they're given. Disallow government from making money off of them as well.
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Old 10-15-2012, 12:45 AM   #26
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Default Re: Should the government cut entitlements?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Balla_Status
That's fine. As long as all energy subsidies are cut and the free market determines what energy people use. Can't be one way or the other.

Of course it's still going to be oil, natural gas and coal for 75% of the usage.

I can bet that the government (state/federal) make more money off oil companies than the tax breaks they're given. Disallow government from making money off of them as well.

Most oil rich nations charge a fee for every barrel of oil extracted from their national reserves. America doesnt because the argument goes that if the government charged a fee per barrel of oil extracted the oil companies wouldn't want to drill as much, unemployment would increase and the price of gas would increase.

I suspect the main reason is because the oil industry has effective lobbyists and donates significant amounts to many senators and congressmen. Sometimes even giving ex-politicians positions on their board and hiring them as lobbyists, for substantial sums.

The main benefit the American government gets from Exxon drilling our oil is that they will hire Americans who will pay taxes and not need government assistance. There is a multiplier effect as well since these oil workers will spend their earnings and further simulate local economies, and the places they patronize will spend their earnings and so on. This is why it makes sense sometimes to give big corporations tax breaks in order to induce them to build factories and plants. Even if the amount of direct tax revenue created by a new plant is less than the cumulative tax cuts and subsides, the multiplier effect of more working people will often make it beneficial in the long run.

With that said it would be smart for America to start charging big corporations for every barrel of oil they extract from our reserves, like every other nation does.
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Old 10-15-2012, 01:41 AM   #27
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Default Re: Should the government cut entitlements?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarcastic
If you think gas is high now...

Keep it for the few small mom and pop oil operations and drop it for the big oil companies. If they raise their prices let the people see them for exactly what they are. The breaks they get could easily be absorbed without the need to raise prices significantly for them to still make record profits.
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Old 10-15-2012, 03:42 AM   #28
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Default Re: Should the government cut entitlements?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MavsSuperFan
Most oil rich nations charge a fee for every barrel of oil extracted from their national reserves. America doesnt because the argument goes that if the government charged a fee per barrel of oil extracted the oil companies wouldn't want to drill as much, unemployment would increase and the price of gas would increase.

I suspect the main reason is because the oil industry has effective lobbyists and donates significant amounts to many senators and congressmen. Sometimes even giving ex-politicians positions on their board and hiring them as lobbyists, for substantial sums.

The main benefit the American government gets from Exxon drilling our oil is that they will hire Americans who will pay taxes and not need government assistance. There is a multiplier effect as well since these oil workers will spend their earnings and further simulate local economies, and the places they patronize will spend their earnings and so on. This is why it makes sense sometimes to give big corporations tax breaks in order to induce them to build factories and plants. Even if the amount of direct tax revenue created by a new plant is less than the cumulative tax cuts and subsides, the multiplier effect of more working people will often make it beneficial in the long run.

With that said it would be smart for America to start charging big corporations for every barrel of oil they extract from our reserves, like every other nation does.

Every oil/gas producing state charges per BOE in America (minus California I believe). So you're wrong on that.

EDIT: Nevermind I was wrong. California already taxes the shit out of oil/gas production

Last edited by Balla_Status : 10-15-2012 at 03:47 AM.
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Old 10-15-2012, 03:43 AM   #29
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Default Re: Should the government cut entitlements?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IcanzIIravor
Keep it for the few small mom and pop oil operations and drop it for the big oil companies. If they raise their prices let the people see them for exactly what they are. The breaks they get could easily be absorbed without the need to raise prices significantly for them to still make record profits.

Tell me more CEO.

You do know Exxon has one of the smallest profit margins right? They make a lot of money but they spend/taxed a lot. Don't be fooled.

You act like it's a sin to make money. That's what a business does dude.
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Old 10-15-2012, 06:27 AM   #30
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Default Re: Should the government cut entitlements?

LOL you people are all brainwashed. Look at the statistics at how much we spent on the military/invasions of other nations. And you want to take away money from people who actually need it?

Let's chop the military in half. And no more invasions of countries. We'll have all the money we'll ever need.
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