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Old 04-25-2010, 07:11 AM   #1
Manute for Ever!
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Default David Koresh and the Waco seige of 1993. Did we get the full story?


I was watching a very interesting documentary on the siege at Waco on the Branch Davidians entitled 'Waco Revisited' and it paints the siege and David Koresh himself in a completely different light to how I remember it being reported at the time, ie. a nutjob who considered himself the second coming of Christ and liked to sleep multiple partners and even children. Waco Revisited includes interviews with friends and relatives of both David Koresh and sect members who were killed in the siege, as well as some of the very few survivors.
For those too young to remember the situation, The Waco Siege began on February 28, and ended violently 50 days later on April 19, 1993. The siege began when the United States Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF) attempted to execute a search warrant at the Branch Davidian ranch at Mount Carmel, a property located nine miles (14 km) east-northeast of Waco, Texas. On Feb. 28th, shortly after attempting to serve the warrant, an intense gun battle erupted, lasting nearly 2 hours. In the aftermath of this armed exchange, four agents and six followers of David Koresh were found to have been killed. Upon the government's failure to execute the search warrant, a siege was begun by the Federal Bureau of Investigation. This siege ended 50 days later when a second assault on the compound was made, and then fire engulfed the compound. Seventy-six people (24 of them British nationals) died in the fire, including more than 20 children, two pregnant women, and Koresh himself. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_Siege]

I recorded the documentary and listed below are points I found interresting and viewpoints that are in stark contrast to was reported in the mainstream media.
  • Quote:
    "I looked up to the guy as a teacher and as a friend, but at the same time he never wanted to be idolized, he said 'You better not bow down to me, because I am the flesh just like you people are and if you think God has given me wisdom then that's fine, but I'm like a Dixie cup; once my message is over, I'm to be thrown away like everything else'".
    -David Thibodeau, Waco survivor.
  • A small group of 20 Branch Davidian Seventh Day Adventists had been living outside Waco for over two decades when Koresh moved there in 1983, thus he did not form the cult as we were led to believe. The Davidians were impressed with Koresh's preachings and accepted him as a prophet.
  • He forced all men in the congregation, including married men, to become celibate in 1985. Only Koresh could have sex with the women, who would become his wives and bear his children, the purpose being to live the book of Revelations and have 24 babies. Sex was for no other purpose, he didn't just take the women because he wanted them. Some of these women, however, were believed to be minors.
  • Koresh was always cooperative with the ATF and the Child Protection Services, always inviting them into the compound whenever they came to investigate and he was never reclusive, yet they claim they couldn't serve him with a search warrant.
    Quote:
    "The entire rationale for the gigantic paramilitary raid was that Koresh never came out of the building and therefore could not be arrested peacefully. The fact of the matter is that nine days before the big raid he went shooting with the ATF agents. I got the report through the Freedom of Information act, Agent Rodriguez and two agents went over to his house and knocked on the door, he saw their rifles and he brought down a bunch of ammunition and the three of them went out in the open ground behind the building and shot for a while. Agent Rodriguez handed David Koresh his gun and let him shoot it, David liked it and handed it back to him."
    -Anonymous , Waco survivor
  • On the February 28 raid:
    Quote:
    "People at the front door all have the same story, they all say the exact same thing, that when David went to the door he had the door in his hand and he had his arm out and he said 'hold on, there's women and children in here, let's talk about this'. The ATF were coming in, screaming. Some of the agents fired at the dogs, another agent apparently shot at the door, it knocked him [Koresh] back from the bullet hitting it and that is when some of the other guys returned fire. For 45 minutes, Wayne MArtin tried to get them to stop shooting as us."
    -David Thibodeau, Waco survivor.
    Quote:
    "Wayne was yelling from a distance to the phone because he said he was afraid that if he got near the windows they would shoot him and they'd think he was out of control because of the way his voice sounded. He was trying to save his life and the lives of others"
    -Shiela Martin, Waco survivor.
    Quote:
    "The ATF, they could have the satellite dishes, they could have their camera crews ready, but they couldn't have communication with the Sheriffs department? They didn't have any communication with their ground people? What are these people, are these people professionals?"
    -David Thibodeau, Waco survivor.
    The ATF has never changed their story, they still claim that the Davidians shot first. Survors say that the trajectory of the first bullet and the hole it left proves that first shot was fired from a helicopter. Also, an unarmed Australian, Peter Jent, was shot and killed by ATF agents while he was working on a water tower in the compound.
    Quote:
    "The ATF kept insisting that there was an ambush, that it was a conspiracy to kill them and that we were waiting at forty different positions with fully automatic weopons and that we were shooting at them. If that's true, not one of those agents would have got off those cattle trailers."
    -David Thibodeau, Waco survivor.
  • Quote:
    "David Koresh was dangerous, irrational and probably insane."
    -Bill Clinton
  • David Koresh's grandmother begged to be let into the compound to coax them to come out. The FBI declined, stating their 'only' option was to flush them out with CS gas.
  • According to the FBI, Koresh was killed by a gunshot wound to the head and was responsible for the deaths of other members.
    Quote:
    "The ultimate, paramount cause in my life is tell you that this wasn't suicide. It was murder."
    -David Thibodeau, Waco survivor.
  • Media were only allowed at the front of the building by the FBI, even though all of the action was at the back of the building.
  • A videotape made by the Davidians was given to the FBI, showing members stating that they were members by their own free will and weren't threatened. The tape was not released until eight years later, the FBI officially stating they "didn't want the tape to generate sympathy for the Davidians."

I would love to know your thoughts and opinions because I know this isn't how things were reported in Australia at that time and I am certain it would be the same situation in the states.

Last edited by Manute for Ever! : 04-25-2010 at 07:13 AM. Reason: I hate typo's
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Old 04-25-2010, 07:17 AM   #2
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Default Re: David Koresh and the Waco seige of 1993. Did we get the full story?

You always come up with the most random shyt for making threads.
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Old 04-25-2010, 07:22 AM   #3
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Default Re: David Koresh and the Waco seige of 1993. Did we get the full story?

its increasingly difficult now in such a skeptical paranoid society to accept any history as its told any more. everything gets doubted and the other side is always spoken for as if history has lied to us about every damn thing. those motherfuckers were crazy- maybe the assault wasnt all legally justified but those motherfuckers were crazy. maybe not heavens gate crazy but crazy none the less.
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Old 04-25-2010, 07:26 AM   #4
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Default Re: David Koresh and the Waco seige of 1993. Did we get the full story?

Of course we didn't get the true story....

Just like the fellow that took all those people to SA and made them drink that drink [supposedly] to kill themselves...I saw a story on that which states it was a conspiracy.


All in all the details are impossible to discern if you weren't there.
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Old 04-25-2010, 11:58 PM   #5
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Default Re: David Koresh and the Waco seige of 1993. Did we get the full story?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Junny
You always come up with the most random shyt for making threads.

I just post whatever catches my attention
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Old 04-26-2010, 02:33 AM   #6
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Default Re: David Koresh and the Waco seige of 1993. Did we get the full story?

please.

of course that fools followers are going to say they did nothing wrong and DK was this nice as pie cat.

bullshit.

did they go into how he and another guy got into a power struggle for the leadership of the cult and had a gun battle on their property? The guys real name wasn't even David Koresh. It was Vernon Howell. He had it changed after he shot his place up.

Those people were f-ing crazy. Don't buy into their BS.
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Old 04-26-2010, 03:22 AM   #7
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Default Re: David Koresh and the Waco seige of 1993. Did we get the full story?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kentatm
please.

of course that fools followers are going to say they did nothing wrong and DK was this nice as pie cat.

bullshit.

did they go into how he and another guy got into a power struggle for the leadership of the cult and had a gun battle on their property? The guys real name wasn't even David Koresh. It was Vernon Howell. He had it changed after he shot his place up.

Those people were f-ing crazy. Don't buy into their BS.

How does any of that change who shot first, whether the raid/siege was legally justified, or how the fire was actually started? We just brand people crazy now and none of it matters?

That time cover is disgusting btw, biggest rag on earth. I've seen the first film, rules of engagement. I'll check his new one out.

Last edited by RoTM : 04-26-2010 at 03:27 AM.
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Old 04-26-2010, 03:34 AM   #8
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Default Re: David Koresh and the Waco seige of 1993. Did we get the full story?

Can we all admit that Koresh was crazy? Ok...good.

Can we all admit that a guy this crazy was a risk and a danger to society? Ok...good.

Thus, crazy guy still being dead some 17 years later should raise no more issues. Case closed.
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Old 10-16-2012, 05:47 PM   #9
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Default Re: David Koresh and the Waco seige of 1993. Did we get the full story?

Just did a report on this. Manute was a great poster. I wonder where he got all his threads from originally?
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Old 10-16-2012, 07:13 PM   #10
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Default Re: David Koresh and the Waco seige of 1993. Did we get the full story?

So that's who was referenced in BLood in Blood Out.
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Old 10-16-2012, 08:35 PM   #11
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Default Re: David Koresh and the Waco seige of 1993. Did we get the full story?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manute for Ever!

I was watching a very interesting documentary on the siege at Waco on the Branch Davidians entitled 'Waco Revisited' and it paints the siege and David Koresh himself in a completely different light to how I remember it being reported at the time, ie. a nutjob who considered himself the second coming of Christ and liked to sleep multiple partners and even children. Waco Revisited includes interviews with friends and relatives of both David Koresh and sect members who were killed in the siege, as well as some of the very few survivors.
For those too young to remember the situation, The Waco Siege began on February 28, and ended violently 50 days later on April 19, 1993. The siege began when the United States Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF) attempted to execute a search warrant at the Branch Davidian ranch at Mount Carmel, a property located nine miles (14 km) east-northeast of Waco, Texas. On Feb. 28th, shortly after attempting to serve the warrant, an intense gun battle erupted, lasting nearly 2 hours. In the aftermath of this armed exchange, four agents and six followers of David Koresh were found to have been killed. Upon the government's failure to execute the search warrant, a siege was begun by the Federal Bureau of Investigation. This siege ended 50 days later when a second assault on the compound was made, and then fire engulfed the compound. Seventy-six people (24 of them British nationals) died in the fire, including more than 20 children, two pregnant women, and Koresh himself. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_Siege]

I recorded the documentary and listed below are points I found interresting and viewpoints that are in stark contrast to was reported in the mainstream media.

  • -David Thibodeau, Waco survivor.
  • A small group of 20 Branch Davidian Seventh Day Adventists had been living outside Waco for over two decades when Koresh moved there in 1983, thus he did not form the cult as we were led to believe. The Davidians were impressed with Koresh's preachings and accepted him as a prophet.
  • He forced all men in the congregation, including married men, to become celibate in 1985. Only Koresh could have sex with the women, who would become his wives and bear his children, the purpose being to live the book of Revelations and have 24 babies. Sex was for no other purpose, he didn't just take the women because he wanted them. Some of these women, however, were believed to be minors.
  • Koresh was always cooperative with the ATF and the Child Protection Services, always inviting them into the compound whenever they came to investigate and he was never reclusive, yet they claim they couldn't serve him with a search warrant.

    -Anonymous , Waco survivor
  • On the February 28 raid:

    -David Thibodeau, Waco survivor.

    -Shiela Martin, Waco survivor.

    -David Thibodeau, Waco survivor.
    The ATF has never changed their story, they still claim that the Davidians shot first. Survors say that the trajectory of the first bullet and the hole it left proves that first shot was fired from a helicopter. Also, an unarmed Australian, Peter Jent, was shot and killed by ATF agents while he was working on a water tower in the compound.

    -David Thibodeau, Waco survivor.

  • -Bill Clinton
  • David Koresh's grandmother begged to be let into the compound to coax them to come out. The FBI declined, stating their 'only' option was to flush them out with CS gas.
  • According to the FBI, Koresh was killed by a gunshot wound to the head and was responsible for the deaths of other members.

    -David Thibodeau, Waco survivor.
  • Media were only allowed at the front of the building by the FBI, even though all of the action was at the back of the building.
  • A videotape made by the Davidians was given to the FBI, showing members stating that they were members by their own free will and weren't threatened. The tape was not released until eight years later, the FBI officially stating they "didn't want the tape to generate sympathy for the Davidians."

I would love to know your thoughts and opinions because I know this isn't how things were reported in Australia at that time and I am certain it would be the same situation in the states.

i don't really buy those claims, and for how much people want to think our government or police are out to kill everyone, i don't for a minute believe if you cooperate this is going to happen. of course followers, relatives, etc. will skew the truth. i'll just never understand why and how people think there could be these massive cover ups when police forces, military, politicians, etc. are generally made up of average people. they're not just all brain-washed zombies just following orders from some evil government that is out to kill everyone for no reason, let alone hide shit like aliens and UFO's. i'll just never understand why people want to think our government is against them and constantly perpetrating evil acts. if anything its more likely a lot of people are f'n nuts out there in how they think the government is against them.
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Old 10-16-2012, 08:36 PM   #12
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Default Re: David Koresh and the Waco seige of 1993. Did we get the full story?

What a piece of shit town. Worst town in Texas.
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Old 10-16-2012, 09:09 PM   #13
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Default Re: David Koresh and the Waco seige of 1993. Did we get the full story?

I've always been interested in this. I remember this as a kid.

Got a name for the doc? I've seen one on it once before, be keen to watch it again, or for the 1st time if it's a new one.
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Old 10-16-2012, 09:57 PM   #14
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Default Re: David Koresh and the Waco seige of 1993. Did we get the full story?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SevereUpInHere
I've always been interested in this. I remember this as a kid.

Got a name for the doc? I've seen one on it once before, be keen to watch it again, or for the 1st time if it's a new one.
Waco the big lie, Waco the inside story, children of Waco. Were the ones I watched on youtube.
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