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Old 10-18-2012, 02:14 AM   #31
G-Funk
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Default Re: How many titles do the Shaq Lakers win with Ray Allen instead of Kobe?

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Old 10-18-2012, 02:15 AM   #32
chazzy
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Default Re: How many titles do the Shaq Lakers win with Ray Allen instead of Kobe?

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Originally Posted by chazzy
00 Blazers were deeper

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izs53PMDE8s#t=2m24s
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Old 10-18-2012, 02:16 AM   #33
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Default Re: How many titles do the Shaq Lakers win with Ray Allen instead of Kobe?

0, possibly 1, 2 max.
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Old 10-18-2012, 02:35 AM   #34
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Default Re: How many titles do the Shaq Lakers win with Ray Allen instead of Kobe?

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Originally Posted by EnoughSaid
People are underrating Ray. Dude was a monster in his prime. A scoring machine.

Ray Allen
99-00: 22/4/4/2/.1
00-01: 22/5/4/1/.2
01-02: 21/4/3/1/.3
02-03: 22/5/4/1/.2
1-3 Defensive teams 0X

Kobe Bryant
99-00: 23/6/5/2/1
00-01: 29/6/5/2/1
01-02: 25/6/6/2/.4
02-03: 30/7/6/2/1
1-3 Defensive teams 4X

2001 Western Conference SemiFinals vs. Kings:35/9/4
2001 Western Conference Finals vs. Spurs:33/7/7

Last edited by G-Funk : 10-18-2012 at 02:58 AM.
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Old 10-18-2012, 02:38 AM   #35
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Default Re: How many titles do the Shaq Lakers win with Ray Allen instead of Kobe?

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Originally Posted by chazzy
00 Blazers were deeper
2011 Bulls were deeper than the 2011 Heat, we found out who the better team was, sadly.

Ray is not some scrub, he was a borderline top 10 player for most of his prime. Replacing Ray over Kobe is not some massive downgrade. It's not like we're replacing Kobe with Tony Allen or anything, we're replacing a top 5-10 player with a top 10-15 player, not a big deal. Egos won't clash either and we all know that was a bit of a problem.
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Old 10-18-2012, 02:43 AM   #36
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Default Re: How many titles do the Shaq Lakers win with Ray Allen instead of Kobe?

Shaq would probably retire a Laker. Kobe would be in the East playing for the Sixers. Kobe wins 2-3 rings.
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Old 10-18-2012, 02:46 AM   #37
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Default Re: How many titles do the Shaq Lakers win with Ray Allen instead of Kobe?

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Originally Posted by StateOfMind12
They have very good role players and they were key to the success.

The only team that was more deep/stacked than them was the Kings and they were the biggest chokers ever.

Spurs were never as good as the Lakers until like 2004 when the Lakers actually won. People seem to forget that Duncan's supporting cast from 2000-2004 was pretty weak, 2000-2002 especially.

Either you're attempting to discredit the actual value of Shaq and Kobe to those Lakers teams, or you truly didn't watch the NBA very closely back then. Maybe you should take a look at the 2001 season where Kobe and Shaq had to score 30 a game each to keep the wins rolling throughout the season. Similiar in the 2002 season. How about 2003 when an out of shape and injured Shaq almost cost the Lakers their season? If not for Kobe dropping 40 a game for the month of February the Lakers literally miss the playoffs. Where was this great talent outside of Shaq and Kobe then?

Not sure what you're talking about. A washed up Richmond, Fisher, Grant, Fox, Lue, George, Horry...that's great talent? Only the Kings were deeper? How about the 01 Blazers? The 02 Nets? The 03 Spurs?

Great talent. Not sure if serious....
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Old 10-18-2012, 02:46 AM   #38
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Default Re: How many titles do the Shaq Lakers win with Ray Allen instead of Kobe?

I think it'd be about the same. Then LA fans would be talking about Ray Ray and not Kobe.

I hate how people have to underrate Shaq in order to prop up Kobe. The truth is, Shaq was playing on GOAT level those years. Ray would work fine in the triangle. There's nothing lost on offense, real talk.

-Smak
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Old 10-18-2012, 02:48 AM   #39
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Default Re: How many titles do the Shaq Lakers win with Ray Allen instead of Kobe?

Quote:
Originally Posted by StateOfMind12
2011 Bulls were deeper than the 2011 Heat, we found out who the better team was, sadly.

Ray is not some scrub, he was a borderline top 10 player for most of his prime. Replacing Ray over Kobe is not some massive downgrade. It's not like we're replacing Kobe with Tony Allen or anything, we're replacing a top 5-10 player with a top 10-15 player, not a big deal. Egos won't clash either and we all know that was a bit of a problem.

In 2001 and 2002 there was a pretty good sized gap between Kobe and Ray. Kobe wasn't a top 5-10 player anymore. He was firmly cemented in the top 5. 2000 is the only year he was a borderline top 10 player.

With how dominant Shaq was at the time, I could see the Lakers getting one ring with Ray Allen instead of Kobe, but they don't 3-peat.
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Old 10-18-2012, 02:50 AM   #40
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Default Re: How many titles do the Shaq Lakers win with Ray Allen instead of Kobe?

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Originally Posted by ILLsmak
I think it'd be about the same. Then LA fans would be talking about Ray Ray and not Kobe.

I hate how people have to underrate Shaq in order to prop up Kobe. The truth is, Shaq was playing on GOAT level those years. Ray would work fine in the triangle. There's nothing lost on offense, real talk.

-Smak

It works both ways. Kobe haters underrate the hell out of him to prop up Shaq. Why is it that you don't see threads talking about pairing Kobe with TD/KG/Robinson etc instead of Shaq? That's cuz most people posting threads like this have an aganda against Kobe.
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Old 10-18-2012, 02:50 AM   #41
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Default Re: How many titles do the Shaq Lakers win with Ray Allen instead of Kobe?

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Originally Posted by BlackVVaves
Only the Kings were deeper? How about the 01 Blazers? The 02 Nets? The 03 Spurs?
I'm not even going to take you seriously after this part.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KG215
In 2001 and 2002 there was a decent size gap between Kobe and Ray. Kobe wasn't a top 5-10 player anymore. He was firmly cemented in the top 5. 2000 is the only year he was a borderline top 10 player.

With how dominant Shaq was at the time, I could see the Lakers getting one ring with Ray Allen instead of Kobe, but they don't 3-peat.
The Lakers don't cake walk as easily to the title in 2001 but they still win it. I think they would win 2-3 as I said but I would say 1 is pretty much a guarantee barring injuries.
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Old 10-18-2012, 02:53 AM   #42
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Default Re: How many titles do the Shaq Lakers win with Ray Allen instead of Kobe?

Quote:
Originally Posted by StateOfMind12
2011 Bulls were deeper than the 2011 Heat, we found out who the better team was, sadly.

Ray is not some scrub, he was a borderline top 10 player for most of his prime. Replacing Ray over Kobe is not some massive downgrade. It's not like we're replacing Kobe with Tony Allen or anything, we're replacing a top 5-10 player with a top 10-15 player, not a big deal. Egos won't clash either and we all know that was a bit of a problem.

Pretty much just contradicted yourself. Why were the Heat better? Because of Lebron and Wade.

Okay. So, you can admit that, right? But can't admit the same was true for Shaq and Kobe? Who were an even more dominant duo, who played with a significantly worse supporting cast?

Interesting.
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Old 10-18-2012, 02:54 AM   #43
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Default Re: How many titles do the Shaq Lakers win with Ray Allen instead of Kobe?

Quote:
Originally Posted by StateOfMind12
2011 Bulls were deeper than the 2011 Heat, we found out who the better team was, sadly.

Ray is not some scrub, he was a borderline top 10 player for most of his prime. Replacing Ray over Kobe is not some massive downgrade. It's not like we're replacing Kobe with Tony Allen or anything, we're replacing a top 5-10 player with a top 10-15 player, not a big deal. Egos won't clash either and we all know that was a bit of a problem.

I think you're understating the gap between Kobe and Allen. Paralleling the comparison with that other thread, the difference between Kobe and Allen is greater than the difference between Jordan and Kobe, and I've seen quite a few people on this site state that as a sizable gap.
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Old 10-18-2012, 02:57 AM   #44
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Default Re: How many titles do the Shaq Lakers win with Ray Allen instead of Kobe?

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Originally Posted by StateOfMind12
I'm not even going to take you seriously after this part.


The Lakers don't cake walk as easily to the title in 2001 but they still win it. I think they would win 2-3 as I said but I would say 1 is pretty much a guarantee barring injuries.

I meant 03 Nets. But hey, let's avoid explaining where the great talent outside of Kobe and Shaq was displayed, and instead grasp onto a technicality.

Brilliant.
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Old 10-18-2012, 02:57 AM   #45
chazzy
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Default Re: How many titles do the Shaq Lakers win with Ray Allen instead of Kobe?

Quote:
Originally Posted by StateOfMind12
2011 Bulls were deeper than the 2011 Heat, we found out who the better team was, sadly.
The Heat were better because of their better star talent, just like the Lakers were. The Bulls weren't nearly as balanced as the 00 Blazers though, who had a great defense to go along with their balanced offensive attack. You said the only team deeper than LA was the Kings so I was pointing out the other obvious team.
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