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Old 10-21-2012, 11:09 PM   #16
IcanzIIravor
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Default Re: Let's discuss: What is your opinion on the drone attacks ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by knickballer
Any why do you think they are being dealing with rockets and mortar fire? It can't be because we are in some foreign country blowing them to pieces. If some country invaded the USA i'm sure the invaders would be receiving some rockets by US citizens or ''terrorists" .. It can't be because we have turned Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan into third world shitholes(maybe besides A-stan).. It can't be because some powerful men are reaping in some major money from our involvement in these foreign wars

I would never join the army because I'm not an idiot who thinks we are protecting our liberties by invading random countries so therefore I won't receive that threat

So because the troops are over in a foreign country we say **** off and don't protect them as best we can? What kind of idiotic logic is that? If some other country invaded us we would fight tooth and nail and I would hope that country would be smart enough to give their troops what they needed to defeat us and protect themselves. You obviously don't know the difference between the terrorist (AQ and affiliates) and the Taliban. Perhaps you should read up on the difference.

Iraq isn't third world. You obviously haven't read up on the country. Afghanistan was a third world hell hole before we came there. Read up on the Taliban fighting the Northern Alliance. The Libyans rose up against their dictator and we stepped in when it was clear even the Libyan military had turned against the government. Have you read up on what actually happened there?

You won't join because you couldn't cut it. Spare me the beating your chest bs. Obviously you don't personally know very many people who have served to have such an idiotic view of the military or you have watched too many lame comedies. People join the military for a host of reasons and going to war is at the very bottom.
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Old 10-21-2012, 11:11 PM   #17
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Default Re: Let's discuss: What is your opinion on the drone attacks ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaWolf24
B!tchmove...you should serve your country outta respect for those who have died ...

then again...you sound like a whiny B1tch....so stay away with your stupid view.

you wouldn't be a good patriot.

I don't fight for meaningless wars that profit a select few in this country. How about you go to Iraq and terrorize some random villages. Please be a patriot!

However, I would die for my civil liberties!
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Old 10-21-2012, 11:16 PM   #18
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Default Re: Let's discuss: What is your opinion on the drone attacks ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaWolf24
Japan attacked us and then we dropped 2 atomic Bombs on them , and set up Our Military in their offshore while making sure to take away theirs(military)... they can no longer have a military....

IMO we need to do the same thing in the middle east/ Afghanistan....we need to make sure they never ever attack our soil again.

just because America enjoys it's quality of life .....doesn't mean it comes without a price.

we have to keep the "terrorists" at bay......

there is no right way in WAR...Kill or be killed.



and like someone else said...unless you served in combat....you have no right to speak....(or at least no right for anyone to take yo seriously)

What we have in Afghanistan and what we had with Japan are vastly different. We aren't fighting a sophisticated nation in Afghanistan. We are fighting the Taliban who rightly feel Afghanistan is their nation and hardened terrorist. It's not really a war that can be won short of staying there for more than a century. It's why we are constantly trying to engage some of the various factions within the Taliban to negotiate a cease fire. Ultimately we are going to leave and the Taliban will fight the Afghan government for control of the country and one of them will ultimately win out over a prolonged period.

I'm not in favor of the drones because I think it's better to kill them there to keep them from attacking the US. I'm in favor because it is the best chance to kill the better commanders of the Taliban and AQ and it is also the best chance to stop some of the smarter more sophisticated campaigns by draining the brain trust. It is also the best way to force talks, if ever there will be such. The Taliban doesn't give a damn about attacking the US outside of Pakistan/Afghanistan.
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Old 10-21-2012, 11:18 PM   #19
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Default Re: Let's discuss: What is your opinion on the drone attacks ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IcanzIIravor
So because the troops are over in a foreign country we say **** off and don't protect them as best we can? What kind of idiotic logic is that? If some other country invaded us we would fight tooth and nail and I would hope that country would be smart enough to give their troops what they needed to defeat us and protect themselves. You obviously don't know the difference between the terrorist (AQ and affiliates) and the Taliban. Perhaps you should read up on the difference.

Iraq isn't third world. You obviously haven't read up on the country. Afghanistan was a third world hell hole before we came there. Read up on the Taliban fighting the Northern Alliance. The Libyans rose up against their dictator and we stepped in when it was clear even the Libyan military had turned against the government. Have you read up on what actually happened there?

You won't join because you couldn't cut it. Spare me the beating your chest bs. Obviously you don't personally know very many people who have served to have such an idiotic view of the military or you have watched too many lame comedies. People join the military for a host of reasons and going to war is at the very bottom.

Of course I want the best safety for the troops serving there as it's not them I have the problem against but rather the system. Those soldiers are no different than you and me and alot of them are fighting to escape their situation(poverty, scholarships, etc).

But that doesn't allow us the right to bomb any country and I highly doubt these drone strikes are protecting them and it probably makes the situation worst for them. I saw a report that a drone striked in Yemen killing X amount of people, that's not going to make things safer for them no? And if lets say the drone does kill a terrorist in A-stan at what cost is it? Does it wipe out 30+ others to kill two terrorists? Isn't that going to make the situation MUCH worst where we'll receive retaliation as the locals are pissed that 30+ innocent people just got murdered cold by the invaders?

As for Libya I don't want to get into it as I've discussed it numerous times here. I'll just say that Libya enjoyed the highest living standard in Africa and Gaddafi wasn't the man portrayed out to be by Western Media(he helped his citizens alot). The uprising was started by the CIA just like many other uprisings cough afghanistan! cough
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Old 10-21-2012, 11:19 PM   #20
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Default Re: Let's discuss: What is your opinion on the drone attacks ?

Seems to cause way too many civilian deaths to justify them.
I'm not overly read up on them though.
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Old 10-21-2012, 11:22 PM   #21
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Default Re: Let's discuss: What is your opinion on the drone attacks ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IcanzIIravor
I'm in favor. We'd have higher casualty rates over there going after high value targets if we just used conventional means. Anything specific you want to talk about with them? Are you in favor or against?


I'm against it. Drone attacks are illegal under international law. Obama should be impeached for war crimes, and Eric Holder needs to be fired for Fast and Furious.

Last edited by longhornfan1234 : 10-21-2012 at 11:25 PM.
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Old 10-21-2012, 11:24 PM   #22
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Default Re: Let's discuss: What is your opinion on the drone attacks ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by knickballer
Do you have any common sense? Do you let CNN and Fox News think for you?

Go get the real facts and learn what's really happening.. I can't debate with someone who is brainwashed by the propaganda machine.


- what propaganda.....

- you think our quality of life just happened one day...

there will always be war or conflict...

you think there are no threats to our country?...

- serious question.....if we don't have a military or a military that trains and then uses that training to put our footprint all over the world....do you still think we have our country?...


- If you think we should only use violence to defend ourselves after we been attacked for a short period of time.....then you have no idea how nature works.

- there are many types of people.....with many types of roles to keep our Machine rolling.

- it's very clear you are not a part of protecting/defending.....it's not about Brainwashing.....it's about standing Ground and Protection of our way of life.

- again...Throughout History...civilization has to protect itself.....there will always be a threat....

- keep them at bay.....kill or be killed
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Old 10-21-2012, 11:25 PM   #23
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Default Re: Let's discuss: What is your opinion on the drone attacks ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by knickballer
Ahh. The threat of terrorism

You know that some dude thought he was about to blow up the Fed the other day right?


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...oiled/1640035/

Quote:
A Bangladeshi national, allegedly inspired by fallen al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden, was arrested Wednesday by federal authorities who accused him of a plot to bomb the Federal Reserve Bank in New York.

Quazi Mohammad Rezwanul Ahsan Nafis, 21, was taken into custody after allegedly assembling and attempting to detonate what he believed to be a 1,000-pound bomb whose components — unknown to him — had been provided by undercover federal agents.

The materials were rendered inoperable and posed no threat.

Nafis traveled to the U.S. in January with the purpose of forming a "terrorist cell" and launching an attack, New York U.S. Attorney Loretta Lynch said.

"Unbeknownst to Nafis, one of the individuals he attempted to recruit was actually a source for the FBI," court documents stated.

In 2010 a guy tried to set off a car bomb in Times Square. In 2009 a group was arrested who were planning to bomb the NYC subways. (They were working with a group in London to bomb the London Underground.)

Are you a New Yorker, knickballer? Are you concerned about folks trying to bomb your city?
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Old 10-21-2012, 11:26 PM   #24
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Default Re: Let's discuss: What is your opinion on the drone attacks ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by knickballer
Of course I want the best safety for the troops serving there as it's not them I have the problem against but rather the system. Those soldiers are no different than you and me and alot of them are fighting to escape their situation(poverty, scholarships, etc).

But that doesn't allow us the right to bomb any country and I highly doubt these drone strikes are protecting them and it probably makes the situation worst for them. I saw a report that a drone striked in Yemen killing X amount of people, that's not going to make things safer for them no? And if lets say the drone does kill a terrorist in A-stan at what cost is it? Does it wipe out 30+ others to kill two terrorists? Isn't that going to make the situation MUCH worst where we'll receive retaliation as the locals are pissed that 30+ innocent people just got murdered cold by the invaders?

As for Libya I don't want to get into it as I've discussed it numerous times here. I'll just say that Libya enjoyed the highest living standard in Africa and Gaddafi wasn't the man portrayed out to be by Western Media(he helped his citizens alot). The uprising was started by the CIA just like many other uprisings cough afghanistan! cough

It's verifiable that we have keyed key leaders within the Taliban and AQ via the drone strikes. War is a terrible thing. I don't think anyone is saying it isn't. Each key leader you kill means a far less experienced guy taking over, which can be the difference between a few soldiers being injured and killed and 20 or 30 plus being injured/killed. Innocent people will certainly and have certainly been killed, but I'll take my chances being on this side than risk additional American/NATO lives trying to take out high valued targets deep in enemy territory. Very few who has any stake in a war comes out with their hands clean. That is how war has and will always be. If you're advocating we should get out of their I'll be right there with you saying the same, but while we have people over their give them the tools they need and if war crimes are done let the law take its course and then leave the rest to histories judgement.

You're telling me Ghaddafi was a well loved man who helped all the people there and somehow the CIA seduced so many people to rise up against him and fight him tooth and nail for what? What did the people get if he was so generous and well loved?
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Old 10-21-2012, 11:28 PM   #25
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Default Re: Let's discuss: What is your opinion on the drone attacks ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by longhornfan1234
I'm against it. Drone attacks are illegal under international law. Obama should be impeached for war crimes, and Eric Holder needs to be fired for Fast and Furious.

Which international law is being violated? Can you link me to it?
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Old 10-21-2012, 11:31 PM   #26
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Default Re: Let's discuss: What is your opinion on the drone attacks ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinNYC
You know that some dude thought he was about to blow up the Fed the other day right?


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...oiled/1640035/



In 2010 a guy tried to set off a car bomb in Times Square. In 2009 a group was arrested who were planning to bomb the NYC subways. (They were working with a group in London to bomb the London Underground.)

Are you a New Yorker, knickballer? Are you concerned about folks trying to bomb your city?

But why are they even trying to blow themselves up? It can't be because the United States continues to meddle in the Middle East. Or do you believe these evil terrorists just hate our liberal ways and want to kill us?

These drone attacks will fuel terrorism even more. More blowback more "terrorism.
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Old 10-21-2012, 11:33 PM   #27
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Default Re: Let's discuss: What is your opinion on the drone attacks ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinNYC
You know that some dude thought he was about to blow up the Fed the other day right?


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...oiled/1640035/



In 2010 a guy tried to set off a car bomb in Times Square. In 2009 a group was arrested who were planning to bomb the NYC subways. (They were working with a group in London to bomb the London Underground.)

Are you a New Yorker, knickballer? Are you concerned about folks trying to bomb your city?

Yes I'm a New Yorker and I have heard about the story and the other incidents. As for the Federal Reserve incident I really didn't care as the FED is an evil entity itself(but that's for another discussion)

Truthfully, we don't know the extent of these incidents because they can very well be a set up. I'm not saying the threat of terrorism doesn't exist but it's a relatively minor threat which powerful politicians use a catalyst to take away civil liberties.

Here's something to put it in perspective..


Quote:
Terrorism is the "greatest threat of the 21st century". But only according to the US, the UK, and Israel.

In the corporate mass media news, we hear the word "terrorism" many times almost every day, but what about the real problems in the world today?

Next time you leave your house, beware, because crossing the road is many hundreds of thousands of times more of a threat to your life than terrorism.


THE TRUTH ABOUT TERRORISM

0: People killed in the USA by terrorism/WMD in 2006.
(Thousands killed by the US and its allies in foreign countries.)

0: People killed in the UK by terrorism/WMD in 2006.

0: People killed in the USA by terrorism/WMD in 2005.

52: killed in the UK by terrorism/WMD in 2005 (all on "7/7").

0: People in the USA killed by terrorism/WMD in 2004.

0: People in the UK killed by terrorism/WMD in 2004.

0: People in the USA killed by terrorism/WMD in 2003.

0: People in the UK killed by terrorism/WMD in 2003.

0: People in the USA killed by terrorism/WMD in 2002.

0: People in the UK killed by terrorism/WMD in 2002.

2,752: in USA killed by terrorism in 2001 (all on "9/11").

0: People in the UK killed by terrorism/WMD in 2001.

0: People in the USA killed by terrorism/WMD in 2000.

0: People in the UK killed by terrorism/WMD in 2000.


WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD

1.2 MILLION: People in killed in road accidents EVERY YEAR.

430,000: Americans killed by cigarettes EVERY YEAR. (The equivalent of 9/11 repeated every two days forever.) Bush's response to a real threat? His election promise to stop the Justice Department's law suit against the tobacco industry.

400,000: Americans die each year from obesity (while much greater numbers around the world starve to death).

11,000: the people killed in America every year by guns, a human tragedy equivalent to a new 9/11 every 3 months.

8,437: Civilians killed by US/UK attacks in Iraq in 2003.

3,800: Civilians killed by US/UK attacks in Afghanistan by 2002.

135,000: Deaths from cancer in UK alone EVERY YEAR

3 MILLION: Killed by HIV/AIDS in 2003.

780,000,000: People starving to death RIGHT NOW.

1.2 BILLION: People "living" on less than $1 a day.

513,000,000: Number of people without access to safe drinking water.

2,500: Palestinian civillians killed "by accident" in Palestine by the Israeli army - and that's just since September 2000.

14,000: Palestinian people whose homes have been demolished by Israeli bulldozers - and that's just since October 2000. Families who do not escape in time are crushed to death - often at night in their beds.


OTHER FACTS

* Global warming has already killed more people than terrorism, "based on the number of fatalities that have already occurred".
The Independent (UK), "Scientist 'gagged' by No 10 after warning of global warming threat", front-page, 8 March 2004.
[ http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/env...p?story=499013 ]


THE REAL TERRORISTS

Nobody has benefitted more from terrorism than the US, the UK, and Israel. They use terrorism as an excuse to change the law, giving more power to the authorities and withdrawing freedoms from the people. They use terrorism as an excuse to attack and conquer foreign lands. They exploit our fear to win support.

If terrorism and WMD are such a threat, what are the causes? Nobody provides more money to terrorist groups and rogue states than the US and the UK. Nobody has or sells more weapons than the US and UK.

Can you see what is happening here? Or are you still afraid of the boogey-man?


FURTHER READING

BBC News, "'Mortal danger' terrorism warning", 5 March 2004.
[ http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3535729.stm ]

Fox News, "Bush, Blair Remain Defiant on Terrorism", 20 November 2003.
[ http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,103607,00.html ]
"This terrorism is the 21st century threat. It is a war that strikes at the heart of all we hold dear," Blair said.

BBC News, "Key points: Bush and Blair", 20 November 2003.
[ http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3222768.stm ]
"Terrorism is the greatest 21st Century threat", said Mr Blair

BBC News, "Text of Blair's speech", 27 July 2003.
[ http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3076253.stm ]
"But first we must explain the danger...
...the threat is new, it isn't obvious...
Compromise is a fine thing except when based on an illusion...
And I don't believe you can compromise with this new form of terrorism."

BBC News, "Bush speech: Full text", 8 September 2003.
[ http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3088936.stm ]
"We are rolling back the terrorist threat to civilisation..."

BBC News, "Relatives condemn Bush 9/11 ads", 5 March 2004.
[ http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3534533.stm ]
Relatives of victims killed in the 11 September 2001 attacks have criticised George W Bush for using images from the tragedy in his campaign advertisements.
...
Among the images shown in two of the advertisements are images of firefighters carrying a body, draped in a US flag, from the rubble at Ground Zero, where the World Trade Center once stood.
The International Association of Fire Fighters condemned the decision to use their images and said the US president was being hypocritical.
"We're not going to stand for him to put his arm around one of our members on top of a pile of rubble at Ground Zero during a tragedy and then stand by and watch him cut money for first responders [emergency services]," he said.
...

Daily Telegraph (UK), "Blair's blueprint to strike at terror", 6 March 2004.
[ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...06/nblur06.xml ]
Tony Blair called yesterday for a change in international law to legitimise pre-emptive military action against rogue states that developed weapons of mass destruction, co-operated with terrorists or brutalised their people.
He said the "global threat" posed by Islamic extremism and global terrorism meant it was time to rethink the centuries-old rule that the only clear case for armed intervention was "self-defence in response to aggression".
...

BBC News, "Blunkett plans tougher terror law", 2 February 2004.
[ http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3450201.stm ]
Home Secretary David Blunkett wants new anti-terrorism laws to make it easier to convict British terror suspects.
...

BBC News, "MI5 expands to meet terror threat", 22 February 2004.
[ http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3510611.stm ]
The home security service MI5 is to expand by 50% in response to the terror threat to the UK.
...

BBC News, "Thorny problem of legal reform", 7 November 2003.
[ http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/3248311.stm ]
The government made it sound so simple. Abolish the post of Lord Chancellor; set up a Supreme Court to replace the Law Lords; establish a Judicial Appointments Commission; and consider whether the barristers' rank of QCs was still needed.
...
Lord Woolf said he was concerned that without the Lord Chancellor in place to safeguard the independence of the judiciary there was a risk the institutions may not be robust enough to prevent political interference.
...


LINKS

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pns/DisplayPN.cgi?pn_id=2003_0121

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3496918.stm

http://www.cdc.gov/od/oc/media/fact/cigmortl.htm

http://www.iraqbodycount.net/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/1740538.stm

http://www.who.int/world-health-day/2004/en/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1015657.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/wor...00/1138009.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/wor...00/1306777.stm

http://www.unaids.org/wad/2003/Epiup...htm#P251_74232

http://www.worldhunger.org/articles/...cts%202002.htm

http://www.earthsummitwatch.org/cwrtow.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/wor...00/1552900.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3428517.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/3373205.stm

http://www.thedebate.org
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Old 10-21-2012, 11:34 PM   #28
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Default Re: Let's discuss: What is your opinion on the drone attacks ?

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Originally Posted by longhornfan1234
Eric Holder needs to be fired for Fast and Furious.

I thought you were pretending to be a moderate Republican?

Are you not aware that the Inspector General report cleared Holder of any wrongdoing?
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Old 10-21-2012, 11:36 PM   #29
AlphaWolf24
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Default Re: Let's discuss: What is your opinion on the drone attacks ?

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Originally Posted by IcanzIIravor
What we have in Afghanistan and what we had with Japan are vastly different. We aren't fighting a sophisticated nation in Afghanistan. We are fighting the Taliban who rightly feel Afghanistan is their nation and hardened terrorist. It's not really a war that can be won short of staying there for more than a century. It's why we are constantly trying to engage some of the various factions within the Taliban to negotiate a cease fire. Ultimately we are going to leave and the Taliban will fight the Afghan government for control of the country and one of them will ultimately win out over a prolonged period.

I'm not in favor of the drones because I think it's better to kill them there to keep them from attacking the US. I'm in favor because it is the best chance to kill the better commanders of the Taliban and AQ and it is also the best chance to stop some of the smarter more sophisticated campaigns by draining the brain trust. It is also the best way to force talks, if ever there will be such. The Taliban doesn't give a damn about attacking the US outside of Pakistan/Afghanistan.

First off it's not vastly different.....it's the same thing...

- I talked to many Vet's who landed on Iwo Jima....the Japanese soldier was probably the most hardcore of any American enemy..

You think the Japanese didn't feel it was their country?

- I'm confused by the bolded...your not in favor of Killing them there?....

- Just as we bombed Japan to protect our land and save our Lives...we should keep a military presence in Afgntn....

- as the Taliban will probably never go away..neither shall we...we have an all volunteer Military.....I repeat...all our Military joined out of free will to serve/protect/ do what our government says....

and that means doing some things that aren't always good...but very necessary.....without question.

Last edited by AlphaWolf24 : 10-21-2012 at 11:43 PM.
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Old 10-21-2012, 11:42 PM   #30
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Default Re: Let's discuss: What is your opinion on the drone attacks ?

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Originally Posted by knickballer
I don't fight for meaningless wars that profit a select few in this country. How about you go to Iraq and terrorize some random villages. Please be a patriot!

However, I would die for my civil liberties!


GTFO with this sh!t....

- You don't have the right to sit and select what you would die for...

Our serviced men and women don't...why should you.

Our Military is a all volunteer force.....we join to protect and defend without question.....even if it means doing so against our own personal vision.

Now you sit here and spew your filth about only if blahh...blahhh....

- what makes you so special??.....



you should get on your knees and kiss the floor and thank all the men/women who were far better then you....that gave you the breathe to think like that.




pfft...GTFO>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
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