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Old 10-23-2012, 11:05 PM   #1
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Default Third Party Presidential Debate

I missed it when it was live, but here is a link to it. I plan to watch it later.

http://www.c-span.org/Events/Third-P...10737435220-1/
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Old 10-23-2012, 11:17 PM   #2
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Default Re: Third Party Presidential Debate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loneshot
I missed it when it was live, but here is a link to it. I plan to watch it later.

http://www.c-span.org/Events/Third-P...10737435220-1/

Honestly no offense, but why? They have zero chance, especially with the electoral college.

The most significant third party candidate in ever I think was Ross Perot, who got 19% of the popular vote, but failed to win a single electoral vote. Think about it 1 in 5 americans voted for perot, but he didnt get a single electoral vote.

43% of people voted for Clinton (370 electoral votes), and 37% of people voted for Bush (168 electoral votes).

Voting 3rd party in our system is the same as not voting.
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Old 10-23-2012, 11:58 PM   #3
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Default Re: Third Party Presidential Debate

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Originally Posted by MavsSuperFan
Honestly no offense, but why? They have zero chance, especially with the electoral college.

The most significant third party candidate in ever I think was Ross Perot, who got 19% of the popular vote, but failed to win a single electoral vote. Think about it 1 in 5 americans voted for perot, but he didnt get a single electoral vote.

43% of people voted for Clinton (370 electoral votes), and 37% of people voted for Bush (168 electoral votes).

Voting 3rd party in our system is the same as not voting.

In 08 i said exactly what you are saying. I've had four years to think about it and i realize that if we don't start voting based on who we feel is best qualified and who we truly feel should be our leader of state, then we aren't doing our part to create a government that reflects us and represents us, and instead we're creating one that tricks us and uses us.

Neither Romney nor Obama should be anywhere near the White House. Its not my job to play band wagon by rooting only for the Heat and Lakers because they are the favorites. If i truly believe in one of those candidates, then fine, vote for them, but don't vote based on who is most likely to win, vote how it was intended for us all to vote, for the candidate that best represents us.

Looking at this country, it would make sense that Romney and Obama are a reflection of the masses, same as Bush and Clinton, and everyone else that was supposed to be better than the last guy, but didn't do jack to change anything.
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Old 10-24-2012, 12:07 AM   #4
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Default Re: Third Party Presidential Debate

More info on 3rd Party debate

http://www.policymic.com/articles/17...onight-9pm-est

Jill Steins Green deal info http://www.jillstein.org/video_green_new_deal

Last edited by IcanzIIravor : 10-24-2012 at 12:09 AM.
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Old 10-24-2012, 12:28 AM   #5
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Default Re: Third Party Presidential Debate

Quote:
vote how it was intended for us all to vote, for the candidate that best represents us.

That's a fantasy point of view. These 3rd party candidates are not the best to represent us because they stand no chance to represent us, they never did.

They fool people into thinking there's a valid option other than voting Republican or Democrat when the truth is all they are is black holes in which well meaning people waste their time and money.

I'm all for a valid 3rd party but it'll never happen if it only comes out of it's cave every 4 years to make another failed attempt at the whitehouse

They do serve a purpose as a sounding board for current events or topics but other than that all they do is waste time and money
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Old 10-24-2012, 12:38 AM   #6
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Default Re: Third Party Presidential Debate

Quote:
Originally Posted by daily
That's a fantasy point of view. These 3rd party candidates are not the best to represent us because they stand no chance to represent us, they never did.

They fool people into thinking there's a valid option other than voting Republican or Democrat when the truth is all they are is black holes in which well meaning people waste their time and money.

I'm all for a valid 3rd party but it'll never happen if it only comes out of it's cave every 4 years to make another failed attempt at the whitehouse

They do serve a purpose as a sounding board for current events or topics but other than that all they do is waste time and money

My belief is they would be better served spending their limited resources winning local elections, districts, counties, state elections and then down the line making strong bids for Presidential elections. I would also make it a point to stop letting people who lose out in Primaries from the major parties hopping over to a third party to continue running. They make a mockery of the third parties when that is done.
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Old 10-24-2012, 12:43 AM   #7
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Default Re: Third Party Presidential Debate

Quote:
Originally Posted by IcanzIIravor
My belief is they would be better served spending their limited resources winning local elections, districts, counties, state elections and then down the line making strong bids for Presidential elections. I would also make it a point to stop letting people who lose out in Primaries from the major parties hopping over to a third party to continue running. They make a mockery of the third parties when that is done.
Exactly! Well said

Change comes from the outside working it's way in. You don't just get to jump to the head of the line unless you're a hot blonde in a mini skirt trying to get in a nightclub. And so far 3rd party candidates have never been hot blondes
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Old 10-24-2012, 12:51 AM   #8
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Default Re: Third Party Presidential Debate

And voting for the two highest bidders is solving problems. They can't get into office because we support a system that supports capital above all else.
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Old 10-24-2012, 12:58 AM   #9
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Default Re: Third Party Presidential Debate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loneshot
And voting for the two highest bidders is solving problems. They can't get into office because we support a system that supports capital above all else.

That is why they need to look long term towards how to grow their party. Wasting money for Presidential runs that don't have a prayer is just irresponsible to the long term health and growth of these parties. Spend 5-10 years focused heavily winning how I have proposed and you'll get more credibility from the populace and you'll start putting your people in enough key positions to not only have more influence with regards to everything, but you can also start changing and overturning some of the laws and restrictions that hamper 3rd party runs on a national stage.
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Old 10-24-2012, 01:01 AM   #10
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Default Re: Third Party Presidential Debate

Quote:
Originally Posted by IcanzIIravor
That is why they need to look long term towards how to grow their party. Wasting money for Presidential runs that don't have a prayer is just irresponsible to the long term health and growth of these parties. Spend 5-10 years focused heavily winning how I have proposed and you'll get more credibility from the populace and you'll start putting your people in enough key positions to not only have more influence with regards to everything, but you can also start changing and overturning some of the laws and restrictions that hamper 3rd party runs on a national stage.
It sounds good and all, but good luck. Until there's some major campaign finance reform we're a 2 party country on the national stage.

Far as the local election angle, the Libertarians are running Rupert Boneham (the tiedyed bearded guy from Survivor) for Governor of Indiana. Because they clearly want to be taken seriously.
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Old 10-24-2012, 01:01 AM   #11
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Default Re: Third Party Presidential Debate

Quote:
Originally Posted by MavsSuperFan
Honestly no offense, but why? They have zero chance, especially with the electoral college.

The most significant third party candidate in ever I think was Ross Perot, who got 19% of the popular vote, but failed to win a single electoral vote. Think about it 1 in 5 americans voted for perot, but he didnt get a single electoral vote.

43% of people voted for Clinton (370 electoral votes), and 37% of people voted for Bush (168 electoral votes).

Voting 3rd party in our system is the same as not voting.
I'm only about half way through the debate itself, but I find it quite fascinating so far. It's a strange feeling to go from the debate we saw last night with Romney and Obama, where everything felt so convoluted, false, and grandiose, to this other corner of presidential candidacy where each nominee remains flawed, but actually seem to recognize a lot of the ridiculousness of the system itself. It's not quite refreshing, but it's close.

As others have said, I think third parties would have to better concentrate on creating a continuous ground-swelling, but I certainly don't think holding a debate of this fashion hurts things at all. If nothing else, for folks like me who do not have their ears to the political ground, this debate provides the possibility of drawing attention to an area of the presidential race we may have not otherwise discovered or researched. It has to start somewhere, right? If third parties have been getting shafted time and time again, should they give up? Or should they continue looking for new ways to reach the nation?

On the topic of the debate itself, I admit I was not at all familiar with any of the candidates before viewing (aside from a survey I took a week ago stating my political views best matched Jill Stein's). Anyway, Virgil Goode is a character. His voice and accent took me completely off guard.
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Old 10-24-2012, 01:10 AM   #12
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Default Re: Third Party Presidential Debate

Quote:
Originally Posted by InspiredLebowski
It sounds good and all, but good luck. Until there's some major campaign finance reform we're a 2 party country on the national stage.

Far as the local election angle, the Libertarians are running Rupert Boneham (the tiedyed bearded guy from Survivor) for Governor of Indiana. Because they clearly want to be taken seriously.

That's what I consider a waste as well. Putting up clowns just makes people think your party isn't serious about actually governing. Doing that makes you a sideshow. Better to not give money to a person like that. From the very beginning no one takes him serious and what it does is it hurts any other libertarians in the state trying to run for any office. Makes me shake my head.
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Old 10-24-2012, 01:18 AM   #13
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Default Re: Third Party Presidential Debate

Quote:
Originally Posted by IcanzIIravor
That's what I consider a waste as well. Putting up clowns just makes people think your party isn't serious about actually governing. Doing that makes you a sideshow. Better to not give money to a person like that. From the very beginning no one takes him serious and what it does is it hurts any other libertarians in the state trying to run for any office. Makes me shake my head.
It's awful. They've got a really good candidate in the Senate race in Andrew Horning. I don't agree with him on much of anything, but he's a serious man that's intelligent as has clearly put a lot of thought into his policies. Instead of pushing their full support behind him in a race where the front runner is a Tea Partier that just said God makes rape happen and the Democrat is the weasleliest of Blue Dogs they're putting this farce up for Governor when that race was over before it started. Really is a shame.
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Old 10-24-2012, 01:36 AM   #14
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Default Re: Third Party Presidential Debate

Its against literally every powerful interest in this country for a third party to become major players in American politics. The current 2 party system works well for corporate America, and the rich. The best case they get a republican in office, who will cater to them 95-100% of them time. Worst case they get a democrat who will feign interest in the poor, but will in reality cater to corporate America and the rich 70-80% of the time.

Take health care for example, the extreme left of the debate was Obamacare, a plan that Mitt Romney and the Heritage Foundation could have sued on the grounds of plagiarism. There was never a serious discussion about single payer health care, expanding medicare to all citizens, or even the public option which would have controlled costs. The "radical leftist" Obamacare, basically required everyone without insurance to buy some from the big insurance companies.

Bush tax cuts weren't repealed, Obama was prepared to accept cuts to entitlements and give Boehner 98% of what he wanted in the Grand Bargain. Wall Street was never prosecuted for fraud, Obama is promising to cut corporate taxes and etc.

With all that said for any Lib like me Obama is still far better than Romney. I might vote for Jill Stein just for shits and giggles, because I live in a deep red state and Romney will win my state's electoral votes regardless. People who live in states like Texas, New York, Utah, California, etc really have very little reason to vote. If I did live in a swing state thou I would vote for Obama because he is clearly the lessor of two evils.
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Old 10-24-2012, 01:45 AM   #15
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Default Re: Third Party Presidential Debate

Quote:
Originally Posted by IcanzIIravor
That's what I consider a waste as well. Putting up clowns just makes people think your party isn't serious about actually governing. Doing that makes you a sideshow. Better to not give money to a person like that. From the very beginning no one takes him serious and what it does is it hurts any other libertarians in the state trying to run for any office. Makes me shake my head.

The sad truth is he probably has a larger chance than any serious candidate. Rupert if I remember accurately came off well on survivor as a genuine person, lets be real here, most people vote for stupid reasons on both sides. People vote based on who they want to drink beer with, who they want to be friends with and who they relate to. All pretty stupid when you think about it. Gore was killed purely because of superficial reasons. People thought Gore was a stiff, who was uncool and sighed a lot, and people actually voted for President off stuff this stupid.

Kennedy-Nixon debates is the best example, people who heard it on the radio thought Nixon won, but people who watched it on TV thought Kennedy won. I'm a democrat, but realistically a lot of people probably voted for Kennedy because they thought he was better looking.
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