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Old 10-24-2012, 12:27 PM   #16
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Default Re: NBA to eliminate center position from All-star game

Eh, it has less to do with Duncan and more to do with any AS player in the NBA who legitimately could be described as a PF/C.... hence mentioning Chris Bosh and Kevin Garnett in the article.

When perennial PF's are being pushed to Center, you know it's a dying position anyways.
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Old 10-24-2012, 12:55 PM   #17
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Default Re: NBA to eliminate center position from All-star game

The league made this news official today:

http://www.insidehoops.com/blog/?p=11264
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Old 10-24-2012, 01:05 PM   #18
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Default Re: NBA to eliminate center position from All-star game

#Wittiness
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Old 10-24-2012, 01:06 PM   #19
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Default Re: NBA All-Star balloting changes: Now two player categories, guards and frontcourt

Dang. It took them long enough. Holy crap!!!
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Old 10-24-2012, 01:20 PM   #20
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Default Re: NBA All-Star balloting changes: Now two player categories, guards and frontcourt

Wait, were Chris Bosh and Kevin Garnett going to be on the ballot as centers this year? I know that they're going to be playing center, but I wasn't sure they'd end up on that ballot.



Really says nothing about the position.
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Old 10-24-2012, 01:42 PM   #21
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Default Re: NBA All-Star balloting changes: Now two player categories, guards and frontcourt

Lol, so we can have five wings start. LeBron, Carmelo and Pierce can all be voted in with a backcourt of Joe Johnson and Wade.
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Old 10-24-2012, 02:24 PM   #22
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Default Re: NBA All-Star balloting changes: Now two player categories, guards and frontcourt

This change absolutely says something about the Center position. Does anybody think this would have happened in the 80's or 90's? With the likes of Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing, etc?

Quote:
“The NBA’s competition committee and the league office agreed that having the center position as the only specific position singled out on the ballot was outdated and not representative of today’s game or players,” Stu Jackson said. “Our players have become more versatile each season, and this ballot will more accurately reflect that versatility.”
http://www.insidehoops.com/blog/?p=11264#ixzz2AEwE9S9u

Not only does it say something about the game itself, it says something about the people watching it, and perhaps an evolution in the definition of positions amongst casual fans and serious fans alike.

If you asked somebody who's been watching the game for 30-40 years if guys like Tim Duncan and Pau Gasol, etc, were PF's they'd say yes and point to a guy like McHale. They (prime) worked out of the low and high post mostly, but utilized midrange game, face-up game, pick-and-roll/pops, and a jump shot often.

But if you ask somebody who's been watching the game for the past 3-4 years, somebody like Dirk Nowitzki and Kevin Love, are the epitomes of a "power" forward. Stretching the defense for the center. Of course there are exceptions, ala Blake Griffin.

I don't think positions ever had super specific guidelines, but players like prime Tim Duncan and prime Shaq (the greatest players at their position IMO) definitely had different skill sets, patterns, and habits on the court, despite both being 7-footers.
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Old 10-24-2012, 05:02 PM   #23
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Default Re: NBA All-Star balloting changes: Now two player categories, guards and frontcourt

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCdac
This change absolutely says something about the Center position. Does anybody think this would have happened in the 80's or 90's? With the likes of Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing, etc?


http://www.insidehoops.com/blog/?p=11264#ixzz2AEwE9S9u

Not only does it say something about the game itself, it says something about the people watching it, and perhaps an evolution in the definition of positions amongst casual fans and serious fans alike.

If you asked somebody who's been watching the game for 30-40 years if guys like Tim Duncan and Pau Gasol, etc, were PF's they'd say yes and point to a guy like McHale. They (prime) worked out of the low and high post mostly, but utilized midrange game, face-up game, pick-and-roll/pops, and a jump shot often.

But if you ask somebody who's been watching the game for the past 3-4 years, somebody like Dirk Nowitzki and Kevin Love, are the epitomes of a "power" forward. Stretching the defense for the center. Of course there are exceptions, ala Blake Griffin.

I don't think positions ever had super specific guidelines, but players like prime Tim Duncan and prime Shaq (the greatest players at their position IMO) definitely had different skill sets, patterns, and habits on the court, despite both being 7-footers.




Tim Duncan is a center. If Robinson decided not to come back in 97, Duncan would have been the team's starting center. Don't get me wrong, he played PF for most of his career and for the entirety of his prime. However, he is naturally a center. That's clear. He's nothing like McHale.



And it doesn't say much about the center position. It just tries to. The move is a stupid move, regardless of people getting excited. If it was ever going to be made, then it should have been made years ago. Just because there isn't a crop of Ewing, Robinson, Hakeem, Shaq, Alonzo doesn't mean that there aren't centers in the league. In terms of depth, the center position has never been as solid as it is now. Nostalgia causes people to act as tho Luc Longley wasn't made fun of. It also causes people to act like Longley is as good as Gortat or Chandler or Pekovic or Hawes or Kaman or Okafor or that he was any more effective than Jordan was last year or has near the ceiling Jordan does have.



Howard, Bynum, Gasol, a healthy Bogut, Noah, Horford, Cousins, Lopez. Not exactly the worst list in the world. And not one of them is 28. There are more than enough for the center position to be kept on the ballot.
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Old 10-24-2012, 05:28 PM   #24
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Default Re: NBA All-Star balloting changes: Now two player categories, guards and frontcourt

This is to make up for Jamaal Magloire fiasco but that was 9 years ago.
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Old 10-24-2012, 06:20 PM   #25
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Default Re: NBA All-Star balloting changes: Now two player categories, guards and frontcourt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whoah10115
Tim Duncan is a center. If Robinson decided not to come back in 97, Duncan would have been the team's starting center. Don't get me wrong, he played PF for most of his career and for the entirety of his prime. However, he is naturally a center. That's clear. He's nothing like McHale.

Which Duncan were you watching? He played PF for most of his career, yet is a natural center? That's clueless man. Why would a team play him out of place for so long? The bottom line is, they weren't. In his prime he was agile, spry, had a great jump shot, and absolutely played PF next to guys like Rasho, Nazr, Robinson, and Oberto who were limited offensively and guarded the opponents center. Occasionally Duncan played C next to Malik Rose and Robert Horry, but his move to playing mostly center was facilitated by age, wearing knees, and loss of athleticism, much later in his career.

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In terms of depth, the center position has never been as solid as it is now.

Eh, agree to disagree. The quality of center nowadays, on average, is crappy. Freaking 13 ppg Roy Hibbert made the AS game. Deandre Jordan got 4-years $43 million!haha We're talking about a dude who averaged 7.4 ppg last season. Are you seriously mention Spencer Hawes and Nikola Pekovic in the same paragraph as Ewing and Robinson? Pull your head out of your ass homie. The center position isn't dead, but it's the quality is dying. DeMarcus Cousins has talent, but he's a headcase. Prime Kevin Willis would be arguably the 3rd best center in today's game, and he was a 1-time All Star.

Quote:
Howard, Bynum, Gasol, a healthy Bogut, Noah, Horford, Cousins, Lopez. Not exactly the worst list in the world. And not one of them is 28. There are more than enough for the center position to be kept on the ballot.

Apparently not........
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Old 10-24-2012, 06:39 PM   #26
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Default Re: NBA All-Star balloting changes: Now two player categories, guards and frontcourt

Lol, the only thing this does is potentially make the All Star starting lineups more unbalanced.


But who cares, it's the All Star game. I would watch a year old rerun of a Kings-Hornets preseason game over that shit.
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Old 10-24-2012, 06:47 PM   #27
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Default Re: NBA All-Star balloting changes: Now two player categories, guards and frontcourt

the only person who gets screwed is Bynum, lol
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Old 10-24-2012, 06:50 PM   #28
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Default Re: NBA All-Star balloting changes: Now two player categories, guards and frontcourt

They are basically eliminating the Center position then.

GGFFF
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Old 10-24-2012, 07:27 PM   #29
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Default Re: NBA All-Star balloting changes: Now two player categories, guards and frontcourt

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCdac
Which Duncan were you watching? He played PF for most of his career, yet is a natural center? That's clueless man. Why would a team play him out of place for so long? The bottom line is, they weren't. In his prime he was agile, spry, had a great jump shot, and absolutely played PF next to guys like Rasho, Nazr, Robinson, and Oberto who were limited offensively and guarded the opponents center. Occasionally Duncan played C next to Malik Rose and Robert Horry, but his move to playing mostly center was facilitated by age, wearing knees, and loss of athleticism, much later in his career.



Eh, agree to disagree. The quality of center nowadays, on average, is crappy. Freaking 13 ppg Roy Hibbert made the AS game. Deandre Jordan got 4-years $43 million!haha We're talking about a dude who averaged 7.4 ppg last season. Are you seriously mention Spencer Hawes and Nikola Pekovic in the same paragraph as Ewing and Robinson? Pull your head out of your ass homie. The center position isn't dead, but it's the quality is dying. DeMarcus Cousins has talent, but he's a headcase. Prime Kevin Willis would be arguably the 3rd best center in today's game, and he was a 1-time All Star.



Apparently not........




See, this entire response is insulting and you're a dumbass for it.



When did I compare Patrick Ewing and David Robinson to any of those guys? I gave you a list of guys who aren't even top 5 and mentioned Luc Longley. That statement was directly preceded by me saying there isn't a David Robinson or Patrick Ewing in the league. So pull your head out of your ass, so that maybe you can pay attention to what someone else says, instead of condescending down to the very opposite.


This is exactly why conversation can be so annoying. It boggles the mind that you respond to exactly the opposite of what I'm saying, when I said what I said very clearly. Go back and read and then pull back a minute. If you wanna stick to your lazy opinion, then stick to it, but I said there is no Ewing or Robinson, but there is a lot of depth. I talked about Luc Longley and the criticisms of his game and compared him to 7 guys who aren't even top 5 and all better than he was. I didn't even get to Hibbert or Varejao or Camby. I didn't even consider Monroe as he's a PF who just happened to play C last year. I didn't even mention Duncan.


And then I mentioned 8 other centers, while talking up depth.



The joke on Duncan is a good joke because it's funny. It's funny because it's true. David Robinson was far more agile and spry and had a jumpshot himself. Patrick Ewing clearly has a better jumpshot than Duncan. They're both centers, even with Robinson not being a back-to-the-basket kind of guy (hear that Shaq?).


Nothing clueless. Duncan got used to playing PF and didn't want to move over to C. That's exactly what happened. I know exactly who he played PF next to. Freakin Rasho Nesterovic (just as important as signing Jason Kidd, they said lol) and Oberto. That's the point. Duncan has pretty much been the center since the middle of the 07/08 season and has been out-and-out the center since 2008/09. Yet, he still makes every all-star ballot as a PF. That's why it's the Duncan dilemna, even if that bit is exaggerated.


Kevin Willis was a PF, his entire career. He was an All-Star and made the All-NBA Team as a PF. He was maybe a starting center for one season in Toronto. He was never a center at any point in his career.



Hibbert has managed minutes and is coming along. And Cousins is a headcase. But he was great last year. Since we're speaking of Willis, his Atlanta team didn't make the playoffs in his standout season.
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Old 10-24-2012, 07:39 PM   #30
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Default Re: NBA All-Star balloting changes: Now two player categories, guards and frontcourt

I am not sure how good this is.... are you telling me 3 small forwards and 2 shooting guards could end up starting the game or even be an all small forward & shooting guard team? Which is basically the same position/role/type of players imo....

If PF/C was the only "frontcourt" then everything would make sense....

Instead of "Guards / Frontcourt" i think there should be "BACKCOURT (pg/sg/sf) & FRONTCOURT (pf/c)" - I have always refused to define the SF position as frontcourt, its much more closer to backcourt (specifically SG) in terms of role/players than Center/PF... if not then it should be its own category.... "The Middle?"

Last edited by pauk : 10-24-2012 at 07:49 PM.
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