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Old 10-28-2012, 12:14 PM   #1
Grey Dawn
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Default Harden traded...a huge tremor for my other fav. NBA team not the Raptors

So I am of course a Raptors fan because they are my home team.

But my 'for serious' fav. NBA team is the Thunder, and they have been since Durant's rookie year in Seattle.

So my immediate reaction to the Thunder trading one of my fav. players in the league is...frustrated disappointment.

But it does give me a chance to bring to the surface some of the reservations about Harden that I began to develop as his playing style changed late last year (after the Artest elbow).

Harden suddenly became one of the league's worst floppers. Embarrassingly, Chris Paul-level bad. In the playoffs it was truly ridiculous.

And then there is his decision-making process in this situation.

Anytime such a trade with a key player on a team with chemestry gets traded, the general idea is that the organization/GM then has to take on the role of explaining why a trade not wanted by the key players took place.

But think about this Harden situation.

Their big 3 are/were supposed to have had epic level chemistry.

Yet Harden would have to explain to Durant/Westbrook that even though the Thunder made him multiple very large offers that were only slightly below the max, that he valued the extra $1 million/year over the friendship/chemistry, and over making deep playoff runs well into the foreseeable future. Durant and Westbrook both made concessions in their contracts. Harden flaked out for the small amount of extra cash, the ball was in his court (i.e. OKC made a fair and high valued contract offer), and HE FLAKED OUT.

So Harden better not say a thing about valuing the chemistry/friendship in his upcoming interviews, which you know he will, but it will be bull$hit because he is the one who flaked out.


To take it back to the Raptors a bit, with the combination of the undesired location of Toronto for NBA players and the fact that MLSE will NEVER spend big, despite being in a spend-big classed city and having the money, there is NO WAY Toronto is ever keeping a team of premiere-level players on board, let alone a single top calibre player. So unless ownership changes, there is no way Raptors are EVER seeing a late playoff run.

Last edited by Grey Dawn : 10-28-2012 at 12:16 PM.
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Old 10-28-2012, 12:45 PM   #2
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Default Re: Harden traded...a huge tremor for my other fav. NBA team not the Raptors

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grey Dawn
But think about this Harden situation.

Their big 3 are/were supposed to have had epic level chemistry.

Yet Harden would have to explain to Durant/Westbrook that even though the Thunder made him multiple very large offers that were only slightly below the max, that he valued the extra $1 million/year over the friendship/chemistry, and over making deep playoff runs well into the foreseeable future. Durant and Westbrook both made concessions in their contracts. Harden flaked out for the small amount of extra cash, the ball was in his court (i.e. OKC made a fair and high valued contract offer), and HE FLAKED OUT.

So Harden better not say a thing about valuing the chemistry/friendship in his upcoming interviews, which you know he will, but it will be bull$hit because he is the one who flaked out.

It's also because the NBA is a business first and foremost and that goes for the players too, no matter how much they precieve to not talk about it.

Harden wanted the max because he thought his value might be at it's peak by that point. You can't blame him for what he wants, because he will probably value that over things like deep playoff runs/legacy. Some players don't care for those because they don't know how long they can stay in the league.

I did think the trio had a lot of chemistry and it's even more surprising when he twittered about this too:

https://twitter.com/JHarden13/status/220700600407568384



So really, you got to think what most players in the league are thinking about. That business mentality first.

Quote:
To take it back to the Raptors a bit, with the combination of the undesired location of Toronto for NBA players and the fact that MLSE will NEVER spend big, despite being in a spend-big classed city and having the money, there is NO WAY Toronto is ever keeping a team of premiere-level players on board, let alone a single top calibre player. So unless ownership changes, there is no way Raptors are EVER seeing a late playoff run.

Well, this has probably been on many Raptor fans minds for a long time now. The ownership needs actual management that cares about winning and building a proper team. I actually like the team we have right now, even though at has no current superstar presence. It's a team with depth and a young, defensive minded core.

I just don't know if we can get any lucrative free-agent signing, though. It's always either the Canadian label that doesn't draw attraction or we just didn't put enough effort to the signings. I mean, the best free agent signing that we got and tried to sell was Hedo Turkuglo, which turned out horrible. Maybe Landry Fields become a quality player for us ?

As of now, the right management can make even better moves, but I don't know if we could get the free agents in the future.
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Old 10-28-2012, 12:46 PM   #3
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Default Re: Harden traded...a huge tremor for my other fav. NBA team not the Raptors

This is one of those rare trades that seems to be good for everyone involved.

- OKC ownership is "crying poor" and not willing to go into the luxury tax so this had to be done. I'm sure it makes sense as a business decision but it's not a good sign to their fans. They do get some immediate help back at SG with Martin to make another deep playoff run plus some potential in Lamb.

- If I was a fan of the Thunder, this is an unfortunate wake-up for them that their team will not be run like LA, Dallas or Miami. It still comes down to the bottom line. It's a good thing they at least have great management.

- Houston gets the best player in the deal and a core piece they can build around for years. Houston is going to have Harden through most of his "prime" years.

- Harden absolutely made the right call in declining the offer. In restricted free agency he would have received multiple max-deal offer sheets. It's not even speculation. It would have happened. OKC's offer to him was laughable.
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Old 10-28-2012, 01:53 PM   #4
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Default Re: Harden traded...a huge tremor for my other fav. NBA team not the Raptors

Until Harden plays on his own and isn't a 3rd option, I don't think he should be given a max deal. Just my thoughts.
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Old 10-28-2012, 02:06 PM   #5
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Default Re: Harden traded...a huge tremor for my other fav. NBA team not the Raptors

Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Low
Until Harden plays on his own and isn't a 3rd option, I don't think he should be given a max deal. Just my thoughts.
So Joe Johnson when he was leaving Phoenix wasn't worth it either? I think he proved otherwise in Atlanta over the course of that first big deal (we all know the 2nd one flopped big time). Harden is also a better player than JJ was at the same age.

I'll take my chances on a high efficiency wing scorer that has the ability to get to the line at a high rate. The efficiency should drop a bit being a #1 option but given his skillset, he is exactly the type of player I'd trust to be a very good offensive player for the long-run. He's also a very solid playmaker too. Not great on D but not too bad either.
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Old 10-28-2012, 05:19 PM   #6
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Default Re: Harden traded...a huge tremor for my other fav. NBA team not the Raptors

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwyjibo
So Joe Johnson when he was leaving Phoenix wasn't worth it either? I think he proved otherwise in Atlanta over the course of that first big deal (we all know the 2nd one flopped big time). Harden is also a better player than JJ was at the same age.

I'll take my chances on a high efficiency wing scorer that has the ability to get to the line at a high rate. The efficiency should drop a bit being a #1 option but given his skillset, he is exactly the type of player I'd trust to be a very good offensive player for the long-run. He's also a very solid playmaker too. Not great on D but not too bad either.

I am not saying that he isn't worth good money but max money should not be made with someone who is a third option. Having 3 max deals on one team goes towards Heat-Lakers territory and the Thunder weren't there.
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Old 10-29-2012, 09:08 AM   #7
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Default Re: Harden traded...a huge tremor for my other fav. NBA team not the Raptors

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwyjibo
This is one of those rare trades that seems to be good for everyone involved.

- OKC ownership is "crying poor" and not willing to go into the luxury tax so this had to be done. I'm sure it makes sense as a business decision but it's not a good sign to their fans. They do get some immediate help back at SG with Martin to make another deep playoff run plus some potential in Lamb.

- If I was a fan of the Thunder, this is an unfortunate wake-up for them that their team will not be run like LA, Dallas or Miami. It still comes down to the bottom line. It's a good thing they at least have great management.

- Houston gets the best player in the deal and a core piece they can build around for years. Houston is going to have Harden through most of his "prime" years.

- Harden absolutely made the right call in declining the offer. In restricted free agency he would have received multiple max-deal offer sheets. It's not even speculation. It would have happened. OKC's offer to him was laughable.

Good post.

1) Actually Okla gets a good prospect like Lamb AND a number of likely high draft picks as it takes Houston time to rebuild. This includes TORONTO'S draft pick for Lowry.

2) They may still run into the tax... agreed not like Miami or Lakers. But Okla could come to a point where they do sign Lamb or another player into the tax. Its just they were not prepared to do so for Harden and have no depth. Again this is smart management but the tax thing is "to be seen"

3) Houston got a whole pile of other palyers for picks. I like Harden - no question as a building block - but I am not sure trading the picks for "upside minor league players" is the right move unless they are accelerating their rebuilding

4) Harden would have had serious offers from an number of teams. Correct declining it was the right thing for him
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Old 10-29-2012, 10:24 AM   #8
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Default Re: Harden traded...a huge tremor for my other fav. NBA team not the Raptors

I think it's a bad deal for OKC, just because it's so hard to get to the NBA Finals. You are a worse team on the court right now, and you can't waste a single year of Durant's prime (it's going to be a long prime).

They could have done a similar deal in the summer.

For the long run, it's a great deal for the Thunder.
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