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Old 10-29-2012, 01:09 AM   #1
Derivative
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Default Statistical comparison of the centers of each era

Let's make an objective comparison of centers during each era. How I do this is I find the top 5 PER from centers(at least 25 minutes per game) in a season, and get the average of those 5 PER. This should give a quite accurate overview of the quality of TOP centers in the league during each era.

Overview:
1960-1961: 19.8
1965-1966: 19.7
1970-1971: 21.8
1975-1976: 22.8
1980-1981: 23.8
1985-1986: 21.0
1990-1991: 23.2
1995-1996: 25.0
2000-2001: 22.0
2005-2006: 22.2
2010-2011: 21.2

1960-1961:
Wilt Chamberlain: 27.8
Clyde Lovellette: 20.5
Bill Russell: 18.1
Walter Dukes: 16.3
Wayne Embry: 16.2
Average: 19.8

1965-1966:
Wilt Chamberlain: 28.3
Walt Bellamy: 19.3
Zelmo Beaty: 18.5
Bill Russell: 17.3
Nate Thurmond: 15.0
Average: 19.7

1970-1971:
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar: 29.0
Tom Boerwinkle: 20.4
Wilt Chamberlain: 20.3
Bob Lanier: 20.0
Willis Reed: 19.3
Average: 21.8

1975-1976:
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar: 27.2
Bob McAdoo: 23.3
Bob Lanier: 22.7
Alvan Adams: 21.7
Dave Cowens: 18.9
Average: 22.8

1980-1981:
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar: 25.5
Robert Parish: 25.2
Moses Malone: 25.1
Artis Gilmore:21.7
Dan Issel: 21.7
Average: 23.8

1985-1986:
Hakeem Olajuwon: 24.2
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar: 22.7
Moses Malone: 20.6
Mike Gminski: 19.0
Robert Parish: 18.8
Average: 21.0

1990-1991:
David Robinson: 27.4
Hakeem Olajuwon: 24.3
Patrick Ewing: 23.7
Robert Parish: 20.6
Brad Daugherty: 19.9
Average: 23.2

1995-1996:
David Robinson: 29.4
Shaquille O'Neal: 26.4
Hakeem Olajuwon: 25.5
Alonzo Mourning: 22.7
Gheorge Muresan: 21.0
Average: 25.0

2000-2001:
Shaquille O'Neal: 30.2
David Robinson: 23.7
Marcus Camby: 20.9
Vlade Divac: 17.7
Dikembe Mutombo: 17.5
Average: 22.0

2005-2006:
Yao Ming: 25.6
Shaquille O'Neal: 24.4
Zydrunas Ilgauskas: 21.9
Marcus Camby: 19.9
Dwight Howard: 19.3
Average: 22.2

2010-2011:
Dwight Howard: 26.0
Andrew Bynum: 21.1
Al Horford: 20.7
Brook Lopez: 19.3
Joakim Noah: 18.8
Average: 21.2

Last edited by Derivative : 10-29-2012 at 04:14 AM.
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Old 10-29-2012, 01:19 AM   #2
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Default Re: Statistical comparison of the centers of each era

PER? LOLOLOL

sigh
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Old 10-29-2012, 01:22 AM   #3
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Default Re: Statistical comparison of the centers of each era

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pushxx
PER? LOLOLOL

sigh

might not be the perfect measure, but the best measure there is right now.
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Old 10-29-2012, 02:31 AM   #4
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Default Re: Statistical comparison of the centers of each era

bump
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Old 10-29-2012, 02:46 AM   #5
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Default Re: Statistical comparison of the centers of each era

Can't really make that comparison since they didn't count blocks and TO till mid 70s.
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Old 10-29-2012, 04:17 AM   #6
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Default Re: Statistical comparison of the centers of each era

90s was by far the most dominant era for centers, by far
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Old 10-29-2012, 04:56 AM   #7
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Default Re: Statistical comparison of the centers of each era

PER is useless, as seen by the low score for Bill Russell and high score for players like Tom Boerwinkle. Win Shares aren't perfect either, but they give much better results.

Instead, if you use Win Shares per 48 Minutes, you get the following results (note: minimum of 4 seasons must be played in the decade to be counted):

1950s:
1 - George Mikan .249
2 - Neil Johnston .241
3 - Ed Macauley .196
4 - Harry Gallatin .182
5 - Clyde Lovellette .174

1960s:
1 - Wilt Chamberlain .259
2 - Bill Russell .191
3 - Walt Bellamy .180
4 - Zelmo Beaty .157
5 - Willis Reed .139

1970s:
1 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar .266
2 - Bob Lanier .180
3 - Bill Walton .175
4 - Bob McAdoo .174
5 - Wes Unseld .150

1980s:
1 - Moses Malone .191
2 - Hakeem Olajuwon .182
3 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar .176
4 - Robert Parish .169
5 - Artis Gilmore .167

1990s:
1 - David Robinson .261
2 - Shaquille O'Neal .213
3 - Hakeem Olajuwon .183
4 - Alonzo Mourning .178
5 - Patrick Ewing .161

2000s:
1 - Yao Ming .200
2 - Shaquille O'Neal .194
3 - Dwight Howard .180
4 - Andrew Bynum .164
5 - Dikembe Mutombo .155
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Old 10-29-2012, 10:35 AM   #8
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Default Re: Statistical comparison of the centers of each era

Avdanced stats; bullsh.t.
Making and responding this thread with advanced stats; bullsh.t again.
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Old 10-29-2012, 11:17 AM   #9
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Default Re: Statistical comparison of the centers of each era

so noah and brook "5rebounds per game" lopez are better than bill russell
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Old 10-29-2012, 12:13 PM   #10
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Default Re: Statistical comparison of the centers of each era

Quote:
Originally Posted by Odinn
Avdanced stats; bullsh.t.
Making and responding this thread with advanced stats; bullsh.t again.

You say its 'bullshit' and yet my analysis of Win Shares per 48 Minutes almost exactly ranks the centers how they ought to be ranked. So maybe its not so 'bullshit' after all.
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Old 10-29-2012, 12:52 PM   #11
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Default Re: Statistical comparison of the centers of each era

You can't use win shares because win shares are a by product of a team's record that's why each win is allocated to 3 players per game. they'll tell you who the best player on the team might be but not the best player in the league and certainly not the best player across an era

No wins = no win shares being appointed, does this seem like a good way to tell who's the best player in any given era?

Example in the 91-92 season Hakeem garnered 9.8 win shares The Rockets were 42-40 on the season Yet he's not even a top 20 player using win shares of the forward center big men, according to win shares the guys below were better than Hakeem if we just use win shares to rate them

Horace Grant had 14.1
Patrick Ewing 13
Larry Nance 12.2
Brad Daugherty 11.7

Are these players better than Hakeem? No their teams just won more games so there were more win shares to allocate

Win shares are made for evaluating players within their own team within one particular season not across seasons or across eras

Last edited by daily : 10-29-2012 at 12:57 PM.
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Old 10-29-2012, 12:55 PM   #12
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Default Re: Statistical comparison of the centers of each era

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derivative
might not be the perfect measure, but the best measure there is right now.
Indeed because:

1965-1966:
Wilt Chamberlain: 28.3
Walt Bellamy: 19.3
Zelmo Beaty: 18.5
Bill Russell: 17.3
Nate Thurmond: 15.0
Average: 19.7


2010-2011:
Dwight Howard: 26.0
Andrew Bynum: 21.1
Al Horford: 20.7
Brook Lopez: 19.3
Joakim Noah: 18.8
Average: 21.2
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Old 10-30-2012, 04:18 AM   #13
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Default Re: Statistical comparison of the centers of each era

Allowing zone defense changed everything for centers. Phased them out of the game almost completely as far as scoring the ball from a traditional method. Look at how big of a difference it made on their shot attempts.

Before the rule changes, Shaq would ask for the ball and the 2nd and 3rd defenders were required to stay with their own man until Shaq got the ball. Only then were they allowed to leave their guy and go help on Shaq. With that extra space, he could make a move and go to the basket. With zone allowed, the 2nd and 3rd defenders were already there by the time he got the ball, so the result is passing the ball out more often and a very significant drop in shot attempts.

That's why the centers who can be most effective at scoring the ball are guys who have a shooting touch these days. Rik Smits would honestly be looking like an MVP candidate with the current rule set. Guys who played power ball and went to the rim can't get anything going with how it is now. Remember that stretch of games when Dwight wasn't even able to attempt 5 shots in an entire game even though they gave him the ball over and over? I think he had a game with 1 shot attempt in 40 minutes.

all the while JJ Barea and Goran Dragic get a moving screen to open them up, no handcheck and a rule set that makes it ILLEGAL to play defense in the paint. No wonder those guys look like hall of famers on many nights.
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Old 10-30-2012, 04:25 AM   #14
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Default Re: Statistical comparison of the centers of each era

PER and Win Shares are both rather useless, but Win Shares are worse.
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Old 10-30-2012, 06:34 AM   #15
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Default Re: Statistical comparison of the centers of each era

Quote:
Originally Posted by RRR3
PER and Win Shares are both rather useless, but Win Shares are worse.

You make a convincing argument.

Oh wait, no you didn't.
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