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Old 11-26-2012, 02:14 AM   #61
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Default Re: Homeland

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Originally Posted by guy
Idk but for whatever reason Estes wants Brody dead once Abu Nazir is caught.
Brody would be useless to them after they get Nazir, and they can't put him through a legal process because of immunity. Having a ghost like Quinn take him out cuts off a potentially dangerous loose end.
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Old 11-26-2012, 08:23 AM   #62
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Default Re: Homeland

I've never fully understood the mole hypothesis myself. And I too just don't think it could be Saul without sort of re-examining a ton of the things he's done from a completely different motive that I'm not sure would make enough sense for me.
The other guy who keep getting brought up as the mole is the kid who was shot in Gettysburgh but didn't die. For one, he has to have some prominence moving forward, otherwise there's no reason for him not to die, or to mention his health at all.
They had sort of set up Quinn as a potential mole right from the get go with Saul and Carrie's suspicion of him. Then last night they push that forward a bit with the appartment, then surprisingly they did not string it along, which would've been standard operating procedure for a show like this. We could've gone weeks without knowing he was a Black Ops guy. Had he simply walked out at the end, but they didn't show us where he went, he would have put some suspicion on Estes as well. Not knowing who his Black Ops handler was would have been another mystery that could've chewed up a few weeks of plot. But the reason this show works is that it doesn't seem to run by those conventions. It's just devouring plot, and I'm not sure how long it can keep doing it before they write themselves into corners that I'm not going to be willing to have them wriggle out of.

I think the real question left at the end of this episode is how does this not blow up Brody's spot with Nazr? Who else does Nazir have now? Will they be forced to introduce new characters? Will it force them to expose a mole I'm not sure is there (if Saul is The Mole, I'd expect him to flip a switch like Reggie Jackson in The Naked Gun when he must kill the queen) just to have another enemy? Has the dynamic of the show changed to the point where it's now about Brody, his family, and the CIA's obviously shady operation with him, hiding from Nazr more than Nazr hiding from them?

It was nice to see Mrs. Brody naked again, albeit briefly.

The girl who plays the daughter is really talented, and the kid who plays the son is really awfull.
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Old 11-26-2012, 09:34 AM   #63
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Default Re: Homeland

One thing I don't get is if Abu Nazir's organization is smart and calculated enough to get Nazir into America AND have that helicopter go undetected, how do they not know that Brody is working for the CIA? It should be obvious to them once his family goes into hiding, and you would think that a terrorist cell like that would have eyes on his family at all times given his delicate circumstance. For that reason, I get the feeling that Brody is still on Nazir's side or they know he's working with the CIA without him knowing that they know, and they are purposefully giving him wrong information in order to deter the CIA from their real plans.
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Old 11-26-2012, 12:18 PM   #64
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Default Re: Homeland

Quote:
Originally Posted by guy
One thing I don't get is if Abu Nazir's organization is smart and calculated enough to get Nazir into America AND have that helicopter go undetected, how do they not know that Brody is working for the CIA? It should be obvious to them once his family goes into hiding, and you would think that a terrorist cell like that would have eyes on his family at all times given his delicate circumstance. For that reason, I get the feeling that Brody is still on Nazir's side or they know he's working with the CIA without him knowing that they know, and they are purposefully giving him wrong information in order to deter the CIA from their real plans.

Well, they purposely only sent one guy to get Brody's family. So to outside eyes, it would just look like a family friend coming by to pick them up. Then Brody returns home by himself. So I'm not sure that would tip them off. Also Brody's house is in a quiet suburb, so they wouldn't be able to have someone there all the time without raising suspicion.

As for Brody working with Nazir, they could have showed the debriefing after his helicopter ride without showing us what Nazir did. But they didn't. They specifically showed one part where Brody lied to them. He said nothing more happened and then they showed him praving with Nazir. Since they showed us that lie, the rules of film grammar are that should be the only lie, otherwise, they are deliberately screwing with us.

Also everything else checked out. They were able to foil the plot.
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Old 11-26-2012, 12:25 PM   #65
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Default Re: Homeland

Quote:
Originally Posted by chazzy
Brody would be useless to them after they get Nazir, and they can't put him through a legal process because of immunity. Having a ghost like Quinn take him out cuts off a potentially dangerous loose end.

Also, I get the feeling, that the higher ups in the CIA feel that Brody is a traitor and should be treated as one. That is, they are going to honor their deal with him, only as long as he is useful to them.

Also you didn't get to see much of his face, but I'm looking forward to more F. Murray Abraham as the head black ops guy.
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Old 11-26-2012, 01:42 PM   #66
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Default Re: Homeland

I always thought of Saul as not 100% with the CIA. In my mind I don't think that's his biggest commitment.

But in no way do I think he is apart of Abu Nazir's operation.

I kind of suspect him as being devoted to an Israeli group. I think he might be keeping tabs on the US for Israel.

Why not? I think they said that guy Quinn was talking to was from Iran (which makes no sense) or some country in the middle east. If more countries from the middle east are going to become involved in this show, Israel will likely be a part.
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Old 11-27-2012, 08:58 AM   #67
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Default Re: Homeland

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinNYC
Well, they purposely only sent one guy to get Brody's family. So to outside eyes, it would just look like a family friend coming by to pick them up. Then Brody returns home by himself. So I'm not sure that would tip them off. Also Brody's house is in a quiet suburb, so they wouldn't be able to have someone there all the time without raising suspicion.

As for Brody working with Nazir, they could have showed the debriefing after his helicopter ride without showing us what Nazir did. But they didn't. They specifically showed one part where Brody lied to them. He said nothing more happened and then they showed him praving with Nazir. Since they showed us that lie, the rules of film grammar are that should be the only lie, otherwise, they are deliberately screwing with us.

Also everything else checked out. They were able to foil the plot.

Well they kidnapped Brody suspecting that he might be working for the other side now. In doing that, it would've made the most sense for during that time, not all the time, to have someone look out at his house. Even if Mike is one person and a friend, if they see that they are packed up like they will be gone for a few days, they would know something is up with Brody. It wasn't something that was that hard to do and you would think an organization like that would put in that little extra effort to cover their tracks.
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:30 PM   #68
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Default Re: Homeland

Id imagine having a high profile reporter on the team makes having a helicopter she can access with her team possible. And they said they flew very low I suppose to explain no radar picking them up.

My local news channels have multiple helpcopters. A bigtime paper/station/whatever like she works for has to have a few. She could probably justify the use of one.

Not that it all makes sense I just think they left themselves room to explain it away later.
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Old 11-27-2012, 02:55 PM   #69
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Default Re: Homeland

Quote:
Originally Posted by guy
Well they kidnapped Brody suspecting that he might be working for the other side now. In doing that, it would've made the most sense for during that time, not all the time, to have someone look out at his house. Even if Mike is one person and a friend, if they see that they are packed up like they will be gone for a few days, they would know something is up with Brody. It wasn't something that was that hard to do and you would think an organization like that would put in that little extra effort to cover their tracks.

Yeah, but that just assumes they have a lot of operatives in the US available for jobs like that. Giving them too much capability would also not be realistic.
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Old 11-27-2012, 03:19 PM   #70
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Default Re: Homeland

how's the second season so far compared to the first?

wondering if i should bother continuing with the series..
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Old 11-27-2012, 04:20 PM   #71
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Default Re: Homeland

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinNYC
Yeah, but that just assumes they have a lot of operatives in the US available for jobs like that. Giving them too much capability would also not be realistic.

Too much capability? Getting Abu Nazir into the US and kidnapping a congressman with an undetected helicopter isn't too much capability?
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Old 11-27-2012, 04:24 PM   #72
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Default Re: Homeland

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bano114
I always thought of Saul as not 100% with the CIA. In my mind I don't think that's his biggest commitment.

But in no way do I think he is apart of Abu Nazir's operation.

I kind of suspect him as being devoted to an Israeli group. I think he might be keeping tabs on the US for Israel.

Why not? I think they said that guy Quinn was talking to was from Iran (which makes no sense) or some country in the middle east. If more countries from the middle east are going to become involved in this show, Israel will likely be a part.

Character happens to be ethnically Jewish; must have ties to Israel.

I bet Saul did 9-11!!!
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Old 11-27-2012, 04:25 PM   #73
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Default Re: Homeland

Quote:
Originally Posted by RidonKs
how's the second season so far compared to the first?

wondering if i should bother continuing with the series..


Show is intense and awesome.
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Old 11-27-2012, 09:14 PM   #74
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Default Re: Homeland

Quote:
Originally Posted by guy
Too much capability? Getting Abu Nazir into the US and kidnapping a congressman with an undetected helicopter isn't too much capability?

Right. It would be piling on, if they did all that AND and eyes and ears where ever they wanted.

I would assume most of their crew was with the helicopter and that's why they couldn't get back to his surburb.

But I think we're going to have to live with the fact that plotholes are going to be part of this show from now on.
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Old 11-27-2012, 09:16 PM   #75
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Default Re: Homeland

Quote:
Originally Posted by RidonKs
how's the second season so far compared to the first?

wondering if i should bother continuing with the series..

Definitely worth continuing with.

However, I did enjoy the first season more. However, I watched the whole first season back to back in just a couple of days. So the cliffhangers and what ifs didn't bother me as much, because I could just go on to the next episode.

it's starting to feel like they writers' ambition is exceeding their grasp.
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