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Old 11-07-2012, 04:46 PM   #16
Legends66NBA7
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Default Re: VC wants to retire as a Raptor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavincent
Yeah. Then he hit a game winner on them when he played for the Nets http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWxYCyijHps

That was such a bullshit game when they ejected Peterson.
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Old 11-07-2012, 04:47 PM   #17
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Default Re: VC wants to retire as a Raptor

Yeah I kind of remember that. Vince instigated that.
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Old 11-07-2012, 05:00 PM   #18
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Default Re: VC wants to retire as a Raptor

MLB and NFL does this all the time. Hire for 1-day contracts. Hope TOR will do it.
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Old 11-07-2012, 05:26 PM   #19
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Default Re: VC wants to retire as a Raptor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavincent
Yeah. Then he hit a game winner on them when he played for the Nets http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWxYCyijHps
Twice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIz1g3AtGQo
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Old 11-07-2012, 05:32 PM   #20
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Default Re: VC wants to retire as a Raptor

Quote:
Originally Posted by iDunk

Now THAT one was even crazier, IMO.

Game was legit and while I wanted the Raps to pull it out in OT, there was Vince again with the GW dunk.

While Vince was doing the post-interview on the sidelines, he heard some fans saying "We miss you Vince."

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Old 11-07-2012, 05:34 PM   #21
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Default Re: VC wants to retire as a Raptor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavincent
Yeah. Then he hit a game winner on them when he played for the Nets http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWxYCyijHps

I remember that moment so well. I remember where I was when he hit that shot. It was so long ago yet it feels like yesterday.
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Old 11-07-2012, 05:36 PM   #22
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Default Re: VC wants to retire as a Raptor

Quote:
Originally Posted by FKAri
I remember that moment so well. I remember where I was when he hit that shot. It was so long ago yet it feels like yesterday.

Yeah, I have that feeling too.

Both shots he hit, I was at the exact same spot too.
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Old 11-07-2012, 05:55 PM   #23
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Default Re: VC wants to retire as a Raptor

I understand Vince Carter was just speaking in hypotheticals, but I think it'd be a nice way to bring things full circle if he were to one day re-join the Raptors. I think it's possible to forgive and move on, particularly in a case like Carter's. He made such a poor decision in refusing full effort and forcing a trade in '04, but it seems as if he's recognized that and has (I think) made a point to continue making his presence felt in Toronto in some form or another through the years. Carter's force out the door always seemed to be a Carter/Raptors Management problem more than a Carter/Toronto problem, so I suppose there's that.

Similarly, people were very upset when Ben Wallace left the Pistons for more money in Chicago in 2006. However, it was admittedly nice to regain Ben toward the end of his playing days, to have him rightfully end his career in the same spot he made his name. My only regret is Rodney Stuckey had to go and take Ben's #3 jersey, forcing Wallace to wear the awkward #6. It'd be like Carter going back to Toronto and rocking #17 or something.
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Old 11-07-2012, 05:57 PM   #24
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Default Re: VC wants to retire as a Raptor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rake2204
I understand Vince Carter was just speaking in hypotheticals, but I think it'd be a nice way to bring things full circle if he were to one day re-join the Raptors. I think it's possible to forgive and move on, particularly in a case like Carter's. He made such a poor decision in refusing full effort and forcing a trade in '04, but it seems as if he's recognized that and has (I think) made a point to continue making his presence felt in Toronto in some form or another through the years. Carter's force out the door always seemed to be a Carter/Raptors Management problem more than a Carter/Toronto problem, so I suppose there's that.

Similarly, people were very upset when Ben Wallace left the Pistons for more money in Chicago in 2006. However, it was admittedly nice to regain Ben toward the end of his playing days, to have him rightfully end his career in the same spot he made his name. My only regret is Rodney Stuckey had to go and take Ben's #3 jersey, forcing Wallace to wear the awkward #6. It'd be like Carter going back to Toronto and rocking #17 or something.
Leaving for a bigger contract is different than refusing to play or faking injuries to force a trade. IMO, refusing to play can't ever be forgiven.
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Old 11-07-2012, 06:04 PM   #25
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Default Re: VC wants to retire as a Raptor

the gamewinners, the clutch plays, dropping 40+ regularly on us, that is to be expected from a player of his calibre, you cannot hate on that, it should actually remind us all why we loved him. if anyone actually knew anything about Vince its that Vince Carter is one of the kindest and charitable players to ever play for the Raps. He would give hundreds of thousands of dollars (once 2 mil!) in presents to kids A YEAR for X-Mas, he built a sick as ballpark in Rexdale. Donated millions to his HS and area in Florida.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legends66NBA7
That was such a bullshit game when they ejected Peterson.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TC_ucHPBIk0



HOWEVER, people act like this guy hasnt done enough to be hated. He has. People have a right not to like him in Toronto. But I'd still welcome him in a heartbeat
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Old 11-07-2012, 06:18 PM   #26
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Default Re: VC wants to retire as a Raptor

Quote:
Originally Posted by NumberSix
Leaving for a bigger contract is different than refusing to play or faking injuries to force a trade. IMO, refusing to play can't ever be forgiven.
Despite never truly researching the topic, I made the leap of faith and assumed Carter did in fact quit on the Raptors and/or refuse to play. In the past I'd just look at his scoring numbers and come to this conclusion. But after taking a deeper look at his numbers (minutes per game, per 36 stats) as well as reading a very heavily cited Wiki section on his '05 year, I'm not sure I feel the same about what I assumed as I did before. I'm going to do a little more reading (taking a look at the articles cited) and see if I can piece things together a little better.

Until then, if we maintain the assumption that Carter essentially stopped providing all effort as a means of forcing a trade, may I ask why that, of all things professional athletes subject their teams and fans to, is to never be forgiven? Ever? To me, Ben Wallace's case was him essentially saying, "I don't want to be here anymore, so I'm going to leave." And in Carter's case, it felt like he was saying the same thing, except he didn't have as much control of leaving, so he forced the issue (allegedly).

To be honest, even prior to Carter's supposed on-court issue, it seems things in the Raptors organization were a lot more insanely jacked up at that moment than I recall.

I suppose I ask this of Raptors fans who feel they can look at the Carter-Raptors situation with limited bias - is Carter truly on record of having admitted that he stopped trying so as to force a trade? Because the best I can find is an interview with John Thompson where Vince just states there'd been times in his career where he hadn't given it everything he got. But that line doesn't mean much to me, because it feels like a blanket statement on his career to that point than it did to those specific games prior to his trade.

Also, tying into the minutes drop I saw during '05, I'm reading Sam Mitchell was benching Carter and Jalen Rose to make a point about the new direction of the team (a team for which it was emphasized that winning wouldn't matter at first). Is there any way in the entire world that the biggest reason for the numbers drop was the coaching decisions and that in itself could have led to an eventual lightening in effort when his number was eventually called?

Quote:
Carter and Rose spent a considerable amount of time chatting on the bench in the fourth quarter. While Sam Mitchell was trying to make a point to his two highest-paid players, he dipped Carter's minutes and points to the point where casual observers concluded that he had regressed as a player.

Was Carter benching himself and averaging a career low in minutes because he was out of breath? It certainly made it hard to market him and along with the poor performance and lack of development from Rafael Araujo, it ended Rob Babcock's tenure as a General Manager in the NBA.

I'm not looking to make any points. Rather, I'm looking maybe for a deeper, more analytically take on things here. Anyone have anything worthwhile?
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Old 11-07-2012, 06:19 PM   #27
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Default Re: VC wants to retire as a Raptor

He talked to the media like "Hey, if you retire my jersey, I will bring my talent, and my old ass, to the Big Smoke!".

Based on his peak with the team alone, sure, his jersey deserves to be retired in Toronto. But he won't win a popular vote for sure.
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Old 11-07-2012, 06:20 PM   #28
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Default Re: VC wants to retire as a Raptor

Come on Raptors fans, have some dignity. Reject that trash.
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Old 11-07-2012, 06:23 PM   #29
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Default Re: VC wants to retire as a Raptor

which move was more douchebaggish? VC or LBJ for leaving their teams?
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Old 11-07-2012, 06:30 PM   #30
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Default Re: VC wants to retire as a Raptor

Quote:
Originally Posted by DuMa
which move was more douchebaggish? VC or LBJ for leaving their teams?
VC, IMO. LeBron at least tried to be "professional" and stayed quiet for a while. Vince just did everything to indirectly said that "ME OUT NOW!!"
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