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Old 11-09-2012, 06:44 PM   #16
TheMan
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Default Re: Hey you! Yeah, you, conservative person.

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Old 11-09-2012, 07:19 PM   #17
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Default Re: Hey you! Yeah, you, conservative person.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joe
As a conservative person (libertarian), I'm annoyed with liberals for thinking they know what's best for everyone. It seems mostly everything on the progressive agenda is based on you guys thinking you can run my life better than I can. Which transposes into you using the government to control others.

Here's the basic structure I see in your beliefs, followed by some examples:

The liberal mindset, as I have come to see it- *People cannot get their shit together without X government initiative*

-Poor people will be screwed without entitlements.
-The environment will be screwed without global warming initiatives.
-Only the rich would go to school without public education.
-Only the rich could afford healthcare without government involvement.
-Food companies would poison us without regulation.
-The economy would crumble without the wise government financial overlords to control the system.
-Black people couldn't "move on up" without civil rights/equality measures.
-People can't be responsible with guns, they should be illegal.

Liberals need to get two things into their shiny brains, in my opinion. ONE- It's not right for you to tell other peaceful people what to do, and even if you use the government, that still breaks down to you telling other peaceful people how to live their lives. You are no better than anyone else, especially a person who isn't causing harm to anyone. It's not your place, nor is it any humans place, to boss around peaceful people. and TWO- the government is not the answer to these problems anyway. All the government can do is use blunt force and theft. It has no means of solving these problems other than by forcing people to do what it says. That isn't a way to solve problems, that's a way to create new problems.

So basically we should dissolve the federal government and just let everyone do as they please? And this will make for a coherent and effective nation?

After the events of '08, I don't know how anyone with a straight face can claim that deregulation and no government intervention is the proper path. We saw first hand the result of that lassiez-faire theory being put to the test when our economic system nearly collapsed, only to be saved by federal intervention. The neo cons and their proven to be false theories lost for a reason, people can see through the bullshit and our memories aren't as bad as the cons hoped they were.
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Old 11-09-2012, 07:32 PM   #18
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Default Re: Hey you! Yeah, you, conservative person.

I really wish people would stop saying "conservative" when they mean "Republican." There is a difference.
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Old 11-09-2012, 07:36 PM   #19
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Default Re: Hey you! Yeah, you, conservative person.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joe
As a conservative person (libertarian), I'm annoyed with liberals for thinking they know what's best for everyone. It seems mostly everything on the progressive agenda is based on you guys thinking you can run my life better than I can. Which transposes into you using the government to control others.

Here's the basic structure I see in your beliefs, followed by some examples:

The liberal mindset, as I have come to see it- *People cannot get their shit together without X government initiative*

-Poor people will be screwed without entitlements.
-The environment will be screwed without global warming initiatives.
-Only the rich would go to school without public education.
-Only the rich could afford healthcare without government involvement.
-Food companies would poison us without regulation.
-The economy would crumble without the wise government financial overlords to control the system.
-Black people couldn't "move on up" without civil rights/equality measures.
-People can't be responsible with guns, they should be illegal.

Liberals need to get two things into their shiny brains, in my opinion. ONE- It's not right for you to tell other peaceful people what to do, and even if you use the government, that still breaks down to you telling other peaceful people how to live their lives. You are no better than anyone else, especially a person who isn't causing harm to anyone. It's not your place, nor is it any humans place, to boss around peaceful people. and TWO- the government is not the answer to these problems anyway. All the government can do is use blunt force and theft. It has no means of solving these problems other than by forcing people to do what it says. That isn't a way to solve problems, that's a way to create new problems.

No bodies forcing you to take federal aid, could always choose not to apply for it

I apologize in advance for semi trolling you
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Old 11-09-2012, 07:41 PM   #20
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Default Re: Hey you! Yeah, you, conservative person.

A libertarian =/= conservative.

And some people consider Republicans as conservative too, but they misuse and misunderstand the term.


If anything the OP should be direction their question to neo-conservatives, who aren't really conservative at all, other than using the name. Like if I started to call a prairie-dog, a canine.
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Old 11-10-2012, 02:57 AM   #21
Bucket_Nakedz
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Default Re: Hey you! Yeah, you, conservative person.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johndeeregreen
I really wish people would stop saying "conservative" when they mean "Republican." There is a difference.
im not even worried about party affiliation. im just talking about liberals and conservatives in general.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crystallas
And some people consider Republicans as conservative too, but they misuse and misunderstand the term.
same taste different smell
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Old 11-10-2012, 03:34 AM   #22
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Default Re: Hey you! Yeah, you, conservative person.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joe
As a conservative person (libertarian), I'm annoyed with liberals for thinking they know what's best for everyone. It seems mostly everything on the progressive agenda is based on you guys thinking you can run my life better than I can. Which transposes into you using the government to control others.

Here's the basic structure I see in your beliefs, followed by some examples:

The liberal mindset, as I have come to see it- *People cannot get their shit together without X government initiative*

-Poor people will be screwed without entitlements.
-The environment will be screwed without global warming initiatives.
-Only the rich would go to school without public education.
-Only the rich could afford healthcare without government involvement.
-Food companies would poison us without regulation.
-The economy would crumble without the wise government financial overlords to control the system.
-Black people couldn't "move on up" without civil rights/equality measures.
-People can't be responsible with guns, they should be illegal.

Liberals need to get two things into their shiny brains, in my opinion. ONE- It's not right for you to tell other peaceful people what to do, and even if you use the government, that still breaks down to you telling other peaceful people how to live their lives. You are no better than anyone else, especially a person who isn't causing harm to anyone. It's not your place, nor is it any humans place, to boss around peaceful people. and TWO- the government is not the answer to these problems anyway. All the government can do is use blunt force and theft. It has no means of solving these problems other than by forcing people to do what it says. That isn't a way to solve problems, that's a way to create new problems.
wow. u really feel this way? libs are the ones who are bullies? poor people are entitled? idk what to say, joe. but i still love you
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Old 11-10-2012, 03:34 AM   #23
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Default Re: Hey you! Yeah, you, conservative person.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMan

I really hope this trend continues.
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Old 11-10-2012, 11:50 AM   #24
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Default Re: Hey you! Yeah, you, conservative person.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucket_Nakedz
im not even worried about party affiliation. im just talking about liberals and conservatives in general.
Sorry, I wasn't referring to you necessarily, just sort of a blanket statement from reading this thread and seeing how people are mentioning things 'conservatives' do and believe, when they're actually things that are Republican beliefs.
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Old 11-10-2012, 11:53 AM   #25
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Default Re: Hey you! Yeah, you, conservative person.

Quote:
And some people consider Republicans as conservative too, but they misuse and misunderstand the term.
True. Although many Republicans do have conservative beliefs on many matters, to insinuate that all or even many conservatives are Republican supporters is wrong.
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Old 11-13-2012, 05:45 AM   #26
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Default Re: Hey you! Yeah, you, conservative person.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonDadda59
So basically we should dissolve the federal government and just let everyone do as they please? And this will make for a coherent and effective nation?

After the events of '08, I don't know how anyone with a straight face can claim that deregulation and no government intervention is the proper path. We saw first hand the result of that lassiez-faire theory being put to the test when our economic system nearly collapsed, only to be saved by federal intervention. The neo cons and their proven to be false theories lost for a reason, people can see through the bullshit and our memories aren't as bad as the cons hoped they were.

When people claim laissez-faire and deregulation caused the 2008 recession, all they are doing is exposing their ignorance on the subject. It's like saying a lack of steroids caused Eddie Guerrero's death. No, it was too much steroids that caused his death, just like it was too much government involvement that caused both the housing bubble and the 2008 crash. And it is again too much government which is the culprit of the coming economic collapse, which will be much bigger than anything we've seen in decades. In time you will see the bond market bubble pop and the US dollar depreciate in value. Unemployment will rise into the double digits. And I'm sure people like you will be there blaming capitalism, yet again, for the problems that government has created.

The biggest culprits of the housing bubble/collapse were the following:

1- The federal reserve. By far the biggest share of the blame goes to them. It's their pumping money into the system that feeds asset bubbles, and creates the boom-bust cycle that most blame on capitalism. This was explained in F.A. Hayek's theory of the business cycle, which won him the Nobel prize in economics back in the 70's.

2- Anything after the Fed is a distant second, but Fannie and Freddie Mac, two government agencies, come in second. They were actively handing out subprime-mortgages all throughout the 2000's, knowing that if they succeeded they kept the profits, but if they failed the government would bail them out.

3- Government laws that forced banks to give mortgages to unqualified borrowers. If a bank was found to not be giving out loans to poor people, they were in violation of US government policy. Poor people who had no chance of paying back the loans, were given loans, thanks to US government mandate.

With these facts on the table, how could you sit there with a straight face and say we had a laissez faire banking system?
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Old 11-13-2012, 06:04 AM   #27
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Default Re: Hey you! Yeah, you, conservative person.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucket_Nakedz
wow. u really feel this way? libs are the ones who are bullies? poor people are entitled? idk what to say, joe. but i still love you

I didn't say poor people were entitled in that post brotha. And yes, I do think liberals are bullies. I think they feel differently, but how else do you explain a group of people that constantly wants to use government force to tell other people what to do?

To use a very popular example, single-payer health care. Liberals want this because they don't trust insurance companies, and they think health care is a human right. Okay, but if health care is a human right, that means another man is being forced to pay for your health care. That is bullying. Is it not? If I walked up to you on the street, and demanded $1,000 with the threat of imprisonment to pay for my health care, is that not bullying?

Even if I was a nice guy, with a life threatening disease, I am not allowed to do that. But when the government does it, it becomes morally righteous somehow. That's my problem with politics, it twists peoples minds. When a private person does it it's theft, when the government does it it's taxation. When a private person does it it's murder, when the government does it it's a "casualty of war." It's a double standard that so many feed into, seemingly unaware that they're feeding into it.

Government is supposedly there to enforce the rules of society and maintain harmony- harmony that would supposedly revert to chaos without them. Yet the very laws and social order they are meant to maintain, are most often violated by the government itself.

PS- love you 2 brotha, love you 2

Last edited by joe : 11-13-2012 at 06:16 AM.
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Old 11-13-2012, 06:27 AM   #28
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Default Re: Hey you! Yeah, you, conservative person.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joe
I didn't say poor people were entitled in that post brotha. And yes, I do think liberals are bullies. I think they feel differently, but how else do you explain a group of people that constantly wants to use government force to tell other people what to do?

To use a very popular example, single-payer health care. Liberals want this because they don't trust insurance companies, and they think health care is a human right. Okay, but if health care is a human right, that means another man is being forced to pay for your health care. That is bullying. Is it not? If I walked up to you on the street, and demanded $1,000 with the threat of imprisonment to pay for my health care, is that not bullying?

Even if I was a nice guy, with a life threatening disease, I am not allowed to do that. But when the government does it, it becomes morally righteous somehow. That's my problem with politics, it twists peoples minds. When a private person does it it's theft, when the government does it it's taxation. When a private person does it it's murder, when the government does it it's a "casualty of war." It's a double standard that so many feed into, seemingly unaware that they're feeding into it.

Government is supposedly there to enforce the rules of society and maintain harmony- harmony that would supposedly revert to chaos without them. Yet the very laws and social order they are meant to maintain, are most often violated by the government itself.

PS- love you 2 brotha, love you 2

No, it's not. Someone else is paying for YOUR healthcare too. This isn't a straight up "take" situation. They aren't just "taking" your $1000.00 There's give and take in the situation. That's a pretty awful way to look at it. The way you're looking at it is pretty selfish, IMO.

I'll say this: this whole "entitlement is bad" mindset, as it relates to healthcare, is mind boggling to me. Being a Canadian (who would describe himself as fiscally conservative and socially liberal - does that fit in one of the two check boxes?), I have ZERO issue with covering the expense of someone else's healthcare, so long as it's related to their health and well being, knowing that the system will be there for me when and if I need it.
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Old 11-13-2012, 06:37 AM   #29
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Default Re: Hey you! Yeah, you, conservative person.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MavsSuperFan
No bodies forcing you to take federal aid, could always choose not to apply for it

I apologize in advance for semi trolling you

love the white text. I've probably done some troll like behavior in my day, so what goes around comes around :)

I understand that I'm not forced to take federal aid. But just the existence of it creates problems for myself personally, and the economy as a whole. As I've always said, I don't think these programs should just be ended tomorrow. Hell no. But if we don't ween ourselves off of them, it's going to lead to our destruction as an economic superpower. We need to break away from these socialist attitudes as a nation, or they will be our downfall. And I hate to use the word socialist because it's become so damn muddled, but I can't think of a better word for it. Just the attitude that the poor need to be helped and the rich are greedy bastards... it has to stop. America's wealth was built on our poor being ambitious and free, not by government redistributing wealth and treating poor people like victims.

And now you've witnessed my amazing superpower in action, to take any innocuous comment and turn it into a long winded, tangential rant. 8)
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Old 11-13-2012, 06:53 AM   #30
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Default Re: Hey you! Yeah, you, conservative person.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaininThrees
No, it's not. Someone else is paying for YOUR healthcare too. This isn't a straight up "take" situation. They aren't just "taking" your $1000.00 There's give and take in the situation. That's a pretty awful way to look at it. The way you're looking at it is pretty selfish, IMO.

I'll say this: this whole "entitlement is bad" mindset, as it relates to healthcare, is mind boggling to me. Being a Canadian (who would describe himself as fiscally conservative and socially liberal - does that fit in one of the two check boxes?), I have ZERO issue with covering the expense of someone else's healthcare, so long as it's related to their health and well being, knowing that the system will be there for me when and if I need it.

Well, if you're rich, it is mostly just a take situation. You are going to be paying in much more than you'd ever take out.

As for the bolded section. The system you are describing can be perfectly applied to private insurance. You pay in, and your money goes towards the health care of others. And when you need it, the system will be there for you.

The difference is, a private company doesn't force others to pay in, who don't want to pay in. It doesn't force people to purchase insurance, who don't want to purchase insurance. It doesn't tax people for my insurance, who don't want to pay for my insurance.

You have zero issues with covering the expense of someone elses health care, but what if I do? What if someone else does? You call me selfish, but I think your side is being far more selfish. Forget what I want, forget what supporters of the free market want, forget what anyone wants who doesn't agree with you. You guys know what's best for the health care system, and if someone else doesn't like it, they are just selfish, ignorant rubes.
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