Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > InsideHoops Main Basketball Forums > Off the Court Lounge

Off the Court Lounge Basketball fans talk about everything EXCEPT basketball here

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-13-2012, 06:04 AM   #31
joe
College superstar
 
joe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,348
joe has a terrific reputationjoe has a terrific reputationjoe has a terrific reputationjoe has a terrific reputationjoe has a terrific reputationjoe has a terrific reputation
Default Re: Hey you! Yeah, you, conservative person.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucket_Nakedz
wow. u really feel this way? libs are the ones who are bullies? poor people are entitled? idk what to say, joe. but i still love you

I didn't say poor people were entitled in that post brotha. And yes, I do think liberals are bullies. I think they feel differently, but how else do you explain a group of people that constantly wants to use government force to tell other people what to do?

To use a very popular example, single-payer health care. Liberals want this because they don't trust insurance companies, and they think health care is a human right. Okay, but if health care is a human right, that means another man is being forced to pay for your health care. That is bullying. Is it not? If I walked up to you on the street, and demanded $1,000 with the threat of imprisonment to pay for my health care, is that not bullying?

Even if I was a nice guy, with a life threatening disease, I am not allowed to do that. But when the government does it, it becomes morally righteous somehow. That's my problem with politics, it twists peoples minds. When a private person does it it's theft, when the government does it it's taxation. When a private person does it it's murder, when the government does it it's a "casualty of war." It's a double standard that so many feed into, seemingly unaware that they're feeding into it.

Government is supposedly there to enforce the rules of society and maintain harmony- harmony that would supposedly revert to chaos without them. Yet the very laws and social order they are meant to maintain, are most often violated by the government itself.

PS- love you 2 brotha, love you 2

Last edited by joe : 11-13-2012 at 06:16 AM.
joe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 06:27 AM   #32
RaininThrees
Meats Don't Clash
 
RaininThrees's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,997
RaininThrees is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterRaininThrees is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterRaininThrees is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterRaininThrees is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterRaininThrees is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterRaininThrees is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterRaininThrees is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterRaininThrees is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterRaininThrees is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: Hey you! Yeah, you, conservative person.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joe
I didn't say poor people were entitled in that post brotha. And yes, I do think liberals are bullies. I think they feel differently, but how else do you explain a group of people that constantly wants to use government force to tell other people what to do?

To use a very popular example, single-payer health care. Liberals want this because they don't trust insurance companies, and they think health care is a human right. Okay, but if health care is a human right, that means another man is being forced to pay for your health care. That is bullying. Is it not? If I walked up to you on the street, and demanded $1,000 with the threat of imprisonment to pay for my health care, is that not bullying?

Even if I was a nice guy, with a life threatening disease, I am not allowed to do that. But when the government does it, it becomes morally righteous somehow. That's my problem with politics, it twists peoples minds. When a private person does it it's theft, when the government does it it's taxation. When a private person does it it's murder, when the government does it it's a "casualty of war." It's a double standard that so many feed into, seemingly unaware that they're feeding into it.

Government is supposedly there to enforce the rules of society and maintain harmony- harmony that would supposedly revert to chaos without them. Yet the very laws and social order they are meant to maintain, are most often violated by the government itself.

PS- love you 2 brotha, love you 2

No, it's not. Someone else is paying for YOUR healthcare too. This isn't a straight up "take" situation. They aren't just "taking" your $1000.00 There's give and take in the situation. That's a pretty awful way to look at it. The way you're looking at it is pretty selfish, IMO.

I'll say this: this whole "entitlement is bad" mindset, as it relates to healthcare, is mind boggling to me. Being a Canadian (who would describe himself as fiscally conservative and socially liberal - does that fit in one of the two check boxes?), I have ZERO issue with covering the expense of someone else's healthcare, so long as it's related to their health and well being, knowing that the system will be there for me when and if I need it.
RaininThrees is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 06:37 AM   #33
joe
College superstar
 
joe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,348
joe has a terrific reputationjoe has a terrific reputationjoe has a terrific reputationjoe has a terrific reputationjoe has a terrific reputationjoe has a terrific reputation
Default Re: Hey you! Yeah, you, conservative person.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MavsSuperFan
No bodies forcing you to take federal aid, could always choose not to apply for it

I apologize in advance for semi trolling you

love the white text. I've probably done some troll like behavior in my day, so what goes around comes around :)

I understand that I'm not forced to take federal aid. But just the existence of it creates problems for myself personally, and the economy as a whole. As I've always said, I don't think these programs should just be ended tomorrow. Hell no. But if we don't ween ourselves off of them, it's going to lead to our destruction as an economic superpower. We need to break away from these socialist attitudes as a nation, or they will be our downfall. And I hate to use the word socialist because it's become so damn muddled, but I can't think of a better word for it. Just the attitude that the poor need to be helped and the rich are greedy bastards... it has to stop. America's wealth was built on our poor being ambitious and free, not by government redistributing wealth and treating poor people like victims.

And now you've witnessed my amazing superpower in action, to take any innocuous comment and turn it into a long winded, tangential rant. 8)
joe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 06:53 AM   #34
joe
College superstar
 
joe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,348
joe has a terrific reputationjoe has a terrific reputationjoe has a terrific reputationjoe has a terrific reputationjoe has a terrific reputationjoe has a terrific reputation
Default Re: Hey you! Yeah, you, conservative person.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaininThrees
No, it's not. Someone else is paying for YOUR healthcare too. This isn't a straight up "take" situation. They aren't just "taking" your $1000.00 There's give and take in the situation. That's a pretty awful way to look at it. The way you're looking at it is pretty selfish, IMO.

I'll say this: this whole "entitlement is bad" mindset, as it relates to healthcare, is mind boggling to me. Being a Canadian (who would describe himself as fiscally conservative and socially liberal - does that fit in one of the two check boxes?), I have ZERO issue with covering the expense of someone else's healthcare, so long as it's related to their health and well being, knowing that the system will be there for me when and if I need it.

Well, if you're rich, it is mostly just a take situation. You are going to be paying in much more than you'd ever take out.

As for the bolded section. The system you are describing can be perfectly applied to private insurance. You pay in, and your money goes towards the health care of others. And when you need it, the system will be there for you.

The difference is, a private company doesn't force others to pay in, who don't want to pay in. It doesn't force people to purchase insurance, who don't want to purchase insurance. It doesn't tax people for my insurance, who don't want to pay for my insurance.

You have zero issues with covering the expense of someone elses health care, but what if I do? What if someone else does? You call me selfish, but I think your side is being far more selfish. Forget what I want, forget what supporters of the free market want, forget what anyone wants who doesn't agree with you. You guys know what's best for the health care system, and if someone else doesn't like it, they are just selfish, ignorant rubes.
joe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 07:53 AM   #35
joe
College superstar
 
joe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,348
joe has a terrific reputationjoe has a terrific reputationjoe has a terrific reputationjoe has a terrific reputationjoe has a terrific reputationjoe has a terrific reputation
Default Re: Hey you! Yeah, you, conservative person.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joe
You have zero issues with covering the expense of someone elses health care, but what if I do? What if someone else does? You call me selfish, but I think your side is being far more selfish. Forget what I want, forget what supporters of the free market want, forget what anyone wants who doesn't agree with you. You guys know what's best for the health care system, and if someone else doesn't like it, they are just selfish, ignorant rubes.


As a supporter of the free market, you might flip that argument around on me. "You free market people think you know what's best for health care, forget what I want, forget what supporters of single-payer want. You guys want a free market, and if someone wants government regulation, they are just ignorant rubes."

No, by supporting a free market I am saying precisely that I DON'T know what you want, or what's best for you. I am allowing you to make your own decision, to see what's best for you, and make that choice. In the end, through trillions of individual market exchanges, the health care system that emerges will be far more multifaceted and dynamic than anything the government could dream of. Not because the government isn't as smart as the free market, but because it's impossible for government to simulate what happens on the market. The choices of consumers affecting the choices of business, the savvy entrepreneurs predicting the preferences of consumers. Price competition, innovation, specialization, all designed and propagated with the constant goal of satisfying the every demand of us, the regular people. The drive for profit pushing us forward, but the fear of loss keeping us grounded. A bunch of politicians sitting in a room, no matter how smart or how well intentioned, cannot stand up to this force of human brilliance that exists in the free marketplace.

I'm sick of hearing about the flaws of the market, or how it can't work in health care or roads or for the environment. The free market is one of the most awe-inspiring, jaw dropping, breath taking features of humanity. Our ability to cooperate, work with each other, and work for each other.. it's one of the defining differences between human beings and animals. If humans someday traverse the milky way galaxy, it will be because we finally stopped dabbling in government markets and fully embraced economic and personal FREEDOM! :)

Last edited by joe : 11-13-2012 at 07:58 AM.
joe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 10:35 AM   #36
johndeeregreen
Oh yeah, Mitch Kramer?
 
johndeeregreen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 11,622
johndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: Hey you! Yeah, you, conservative person.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaininThrees
I'll say this: this whole "entitlement is bad" mindset, as it relates to healthcare, is mind boggling to me. Being a Canadian (who would describe himself as fiscally conservative and socially liberal - does that fit in one of the two check boxes?), I have ZERO issue with covering the expense of someone else's healthcare, so long as it's related to their health and well being, knowing that the system will be there for me when and if I need it.
You know, I have a ton of issues with the healthcare system in this country, and honestly how much of our $ goes towards other people's interests as well, but at the end of the day I'm for our socially funded system. It's no different than paying insurance. Maybe right now I'm healthy as an ox, but it doesn't take much of a hospital stay to rack up a shitload of cash. I can live with what I pay if the system is going to take care of me when I need it.
johndeeregreen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 10:40 AM   #37
Mr. I'm So Rad
So What If It Is
 
Mr. I'm So Rad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Edge of Despair
Posts: 11,938
Mr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableMr. I'm So Rad is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: Hey you! Yeah, you, conservative person.

Quote:
Black people couldn't "move on up" without civil rights/equality measures.

Wait...what?
Mr. I'm So Rad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 11:15 AM   #38
Droid101
5-time NBA All-Star
 
Droid101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: SoCal
Posts: 11,439
Droid101 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterDroid101 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterDroid101 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterDroid101 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterDroid101 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterDroid101 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterDroid101 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterDroid101 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterDroid101 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterDroid101 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: Hey you! Yeah, you, conservative person.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joe
When people claim laissez-faire and deregulation caused the 2008 recession, all they are doing is exposing their ignorance on the subject. It's like saying a lack of steroids caused Eddie Guerrero's death. No, it was too much steroids that caused his death, just like it was too much government involvement that caused both the housing bubble and the 2008 crash. And it is again too much government which is the culprit of the coming economic collapse, which will be much bigger than anything we've seen in decades. In time you will see the bond market bubble pop and the US dollar depreciate in value. Unemployment will rise into the double digits. And I'm sure people like you will be there blaming capitalism, yet again, for the problems that government has created.

The biggest culprits of the housing bubble/collapse were the following:

1- The federal reserve. By far the biggest share of the blame goes to them. It's their pumping money into the system that feeds asset bubbles, and creates the boom-bust cycle that most blame on capitalism. This was explained in F.A. Hayek's theory of the business cycle, which won him the Nobel prize in economics back in the 70's.

2- Anything after the Fed is a distant second, but Fannie and Freddie Mac, two government agencies, come in second. They were actively handing out subprime-mortgages all throughout the 2000's, knowing that if they succeeded they kept the profits, but if they failed the government would bail them out.

3- Government laws that forced banks to give mortgages to unqualified borrowers. If a bank was found to not be giving out loans to poor people, they were in violation of US government policy. Poor people who had no chance of paying back the loans, were given loans, thanks to US government mandate.

With these facts on the table, how could you sit there with a straight face and say we had a laissez faire banking system?
There is so much wrong with this, I don't know where to start.

Go watch this movie: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inside_Job_(film)
Droid101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 11:33 AM   #39
nathanjizzle
Banned
 
nathanjizzle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 8,174
nathanjizzle is starting to rub some people the wrong way
Default Re: Hey you! Yeah, you, conservative person.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rufuspaul
I just got this notice from the American Dental Association





Result: Fees for dental services will be going up by at least 2.3%.


It's just starting.

no its not. the manufacturers have to pay it so whether they decide to carry over the extra tax to the price of unit is on them. 2nd, then the dentists decide if they want to carry over the charges to there patients. 3rd it doesnt matter because one medical device i would imagine could be used on over multiple thousands of patients...so multiple thousands of patients paying 100 dollars? thats like .02 cents each person.
nathanjizzle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 11:59 AM   #40
rufuspaul
Kubla Kemba
 
rufuspaul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Charlotte
Posts: 20,195
rufuspaul is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablerufuspaul is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablerufuspaul is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablerufuspaul is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablerufuspaul is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablerufuspaul is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablerufuspaul is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablerufuspaul is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablerufuspaul is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablerufuspaul is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablerufuspaul is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: Hey you! Yeah, you, conservative person.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanjizzle
no its not. the manufacturers have to pay it so whether they decide to carry over the extra tax to the price of unit is on them. 2nd, then the dentists decide if they want to carry over the charges to there patients. 3rd it doesnt matter because one medical device i would imagine could be used on over multiple thousands of patients...so multiple thousands of patients paying 100 dollars? thats like .02 cents each person.


It includes all supplies used both clinically and in the labs that make crowns, bridges, implants, dentures, etc. And yes the cost always gets passed on.
rufuspaul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 02:40 PM   #41
joe
College superstar
 
joe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,348
joe has a terrific reputationjoe has a terrific reputationjoe has a terrific reputationjoe has a terrific reputationjoe has a terrific reputationjoe has a terrific reputation
Default Re: Hey you! Yeah, you, conservative person.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Droid101
There is so much wrong with this, I don't know where to start.

Go watch this movie: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inside_Job_(film)

Banks would never act the way they acted if they were operating in the free market. Banks would not give out 100,000 dollar housing loans to people who couldn't afford to pay it back if the government wasn't pushing them to and guaranteeing the loans. It doesn't make logical sense that a bank would behave that way. Only government regulation could incentivize people to make such stupid decisions. And that includes by the federal reserve, which was pumping money into the banks the entire time and artificially forcing down interest rates.
joe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 02:53 PM   #42
Droid101
5-time NBA All-Star
 
Droid101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: SoCal
Posts: 11,439
Droid101 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterDroid101 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterDroid101 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterDroid101 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterDroid101 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterDroid101 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterDroid101 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterDroid101 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterDroid101 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterDroid101 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: Hey you! Yeah, you, conservative person.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joe
Banks would never act the way they acted if they were operating in the free market. Banks would not give out 100,000 dollar housing loans to people who couldn't afford to pay it back if the government wasn't pushing them to and guaranteeing the loans. It doesn't make logical sense that a bank would behave that way. Only government regulation could incentivize people to make such stupid decisions. And that includes by the federal reserve, which was pumping money into the banks the entire time and artificially forcing down interest rates.
You're a lunatic. The repeal of Glass-Steagall (harsh regulations on banks 'gambling' their money) started this junk. They were lending to whoever, then packaging known bad debt and selling it off. The "credit raters" were purposefully rating everything as "Good" (more regulations on that industry would have stopped it) and so people were buying up "Good" debt that was actually not good.

Please, please, I beg you, watch that movie. They explain it much better than I can.
Droid101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 03:21 PM   #43
Jailblazers7
will-to-bigness
 
Jailblazers7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 22,858
Jailblazers7 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableJailblazers7 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableJailblazers7 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableJailblazers7 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableJailblazers7 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableJailblazers7 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableJailblazers7 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableJailblazers7 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableJailblazers7 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableJailblazers7 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableJailblazers7 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: Hey you! Yeah, you, conservative person.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joe
Banks would never act the way they acted if they were operating in the free market. Banks would not give out 100,000 dollar housing loans to people who couldn't afford to pay it back if the government wasn't pushing them to and guaranteeing the loans. It doesn't make logical sense that a bank would behave that way. Only government regulation could incentivize people to make such stupid decisions. And that includes by the federal reserve, which was pumping money into the banks the entire time and artificially forcing down interest rates.

"It must be the govts fault because the market failed"

^thats an extremely lazy point of view. Govt played a role in the crisis w/o a doubt but bankers, rating agencies, and mortgage originators share plenty of the blame.
Jailblazers7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 03:22 PM   #44
red1
Dinosaurs
 
red1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 10,428
red1 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterred1 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterred1 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterred1 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterred1 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterred1 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterred1 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterred1 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterred1 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterred1 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: Hey you! Yeah, you, conservative person.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johndeeregreen
You know, I have a ton of issues with the healthcare system in this country, and honestly how much of our $ goes towards other people's interests as well, but at the end of the day I'm for our socially funded system. It's no different than paying insurance. Maybe right now I'm healthy as an ox, but it doesn't take much of a hospital stay to rack up a shitload of cash. I can live with what I pay if the system is going to take care of me when I need it.
+1. I may never get a return on my investment but I know it will be there for me if I ever need it.
red1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 03:23 PM   #45
red1
Dinosaurs
 
red1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 10,428
red1 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterred1 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterred1 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterred1 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterred1 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterred1 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterred1 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterred1 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterred1 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterred1 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: Hey you! Yeah, you, conservative person.

And I'm also fine knowing that my tax money is helping people who are in need.
red1 is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:40 AM.




NBA Basketball Forum Key Links:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
NBA Mock Draft
NBA Free Agents
All-Star Weekend
---
High School Basketball
Streetball
---
InsideHoops Twitter
Search Our Site















Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy