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Old 11-14-2012, 03:06 PM   #16
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Default Re: The Fiscal Cliff

Quote:
Originally Posted by rufuspaul
I'm not crying for rich people, but I don't think they should be vilified either. Yeah a few percentage points here and there won't mean the end of the world but what happens after that? Come back the next year and say we still need to squeeze you more? Where does it end?
It ends when our deficit and debt is looking a little better. You get there by reducing spending and increasing revenue. I know it's hard for most conservatives to understand.

I'm content going back to Clinton era tax rates, making capital gains the same as regular income regarding taxes, creating some new brackets with higher rates for income after 1 million, 5 million, 10 million, 100 million, and 1 billion.

A good start.
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Old 11-14-2012, 03:14 PM   #17
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Default Re: The Fiscal Cliff

Quote:
Originally Posted by Droid101
It ends when our deficit and debt is looking a little better. You get there by reducing spending and increasing revenue. I know it's hard for most conservatives to understand.

I'm content going back to Clinton era tax rates, making capital gains the same as regular income regarding taxes, creating some new brackets with higher rates for income after 1 million, 5 million, 10 million, 100 million, and 1 billion.

A good start.



"Say increasing revenue and higher rates one more goddamn time. I dare you"
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Old 11-14-2012, 03:15 PM   #18
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Default Re: The Fiscal Cliff

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Originally Posted by DonDadda59


"Say increasing revenue and higher rates one more goddamn time. I dare you"
Grover Norquist is a weaselly little idiot and I have no idea how his essay he wrote when he was 12 years old became the mantra of the modern Republican party.
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Old 11-14-2012, 03:20 PM   #19
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Default Re: The Fiscal Cliff

Quote:
Originally Posted by Droid101
It ends when our deficit and debt is looking a little better. You get there by reducing spending and increasing revenue. I know it's hard for most conservatives to understand.

I'm content going back to Clinton era tax rates, making capital gains the same as regular income regarding taxes, creating some new brackets with higher rates for income after 1 million, 5 million, 10 million, 100 million, and 1 billion.

A good start.

I'm with you there to a degree but sticking it to the wealthy much more beyond that is counter productive and won't reduce the deficit by any noticeable amount. But no doubt true reform is needed. I think the Tax Reform Act of 1986 was fair and balanced (no pun intended) and should be looked at as a map for further reform.
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Old 11-14-2012, 03:24 PM   #20
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Default Re: The Fiscal Cliff

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Originally Posted by DonDadda59
So if I'm hearing you correctly, whatever happens from the point of Obama getting the concessions from Congress on, is on him?

I'll bookmark this so in 4 years when (as the CBO, Moody's Analytical, and other organizations) the country has added a record 12-12.3 million jobs, there is a housing boom, the dysfunctional healthcare system is fixed, the GDP has doubled, etc... you can eat a nice helping off hot off the stove crow
I'll bookmark this so in two years when there is a double dip recession and there are massive job losses you can eat crow.

That will never happen though because the Republicans won't let Obama go wild. They got elected too and they have their own mandate to keep taxes low. They are the last defense to stop Obama from destroying this nation.
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Old 11-14-2012, 03:27 PM   #21
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Default Re: The Fiscal Cliff

Quote:
Originally Posted by Droid101
Grover Norquist is a weaselly little idiot and I have no idea how his essay he wrote when he was 12 years old became the mantra of the modern Republican party.

It is strange that he somehow has the entire Republican party by the balls, isn't it? I'm no conspiracy theorist but if people are still looking for the leader of the 'illuminati' or whatever shadowy organization is controlling the world, start by checking this dude out

He killed the American Jobs Act which would've added 2-2.6 million jobs to the economy, 1.5% to the GDP and now he wants to plunge the country into another recession... and Boehner and co. will ride with this guy until the end even though they must know better by now. Very strange. Take a look cons- if anyone is going to 'destroy' the country (and by extension the world at large), it's not Barry, it's your republican overlord Norquist.
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Old 11-14-2012, 03:32 PM   #22
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Default Re: The Fiscal Cliff

Quote:
Originally Posted by General
I'll bookmark this so in two years when there is a double dip recession and there are massive job losses you can eat crow.

That will never happen though because the Republicans won't let Obama go wild. They got elected too and they have their own mandate to keep taxes low. They are the last defense to stop Obama from destroying this nation.

That will only happen if Lord Norquist gets his wishes. All of the forecasts concerning from now until 2014 say jobs will be added, the unemployment rate will decrease, the GDP will grow, housing will strengthen. Everything is bullish outside of the fox news keep em scared and ignorant bubble. There's only one way we suffer a setback, and if that happens the Repubs will get a new mandate:

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Old 11-14-2012, 03:44 PM   #23
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Default Re: The Fiscal Cliff

I don't really understand how the main GOP can be so stupid and do such a poor job of solidifying its base. I consider myself an independent but I have seriously conservative leanings. At several times throughout history, I'd have been a clear cut republican but they've just gotten so hypocritical.

You can't simultaneously cry about the debt being too high and steadfastly refuse to increase revenue. The fact of the matter is when you overspend your means you have to either increase your income or decrease your expenses. At this particular point in time there is no way a spending cut alone could get us back to where we need to be. We have to increase taxes. The fact that it's being fought so hard just boggles my mind. Ask for spending cuts to go with it? Sure, but to go in saying that raises aren't an option is just stupid. You back yourself into a corner where you are forced to either screw the country or give your future opponent a golden campaign video showing that you didn't do what you promised.

I really don't understand why they haven't come in saying. We realize there need to be tax/revenue increases. While we believe these increases go against our general party policy, we realize that they are at least temporarily necesarry and therefore we will agree to them on a basis to be a reevaluated at a later date. While we are willing to make these cuts, we also need dems to understand that some spending cuts will also need to take place(and while some of them will be military in nature, some also need to be entitlement programs)
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Old 11-14-2012, 03:48 PM   #24
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Default Re: The Fiscal Cliff

Quote:
Originally Posted by raiderfan19
I don't really understand how the main GOP can be so stupid and do such a poor job of solidifying its base. I consider myself an independent but I have seriously conservative leanings. At several times throughout history, I'd have been a clear cut republican but they've just gotten so hypocritical.

You can't simultaneously cry about the debt being too high and steadfastly refuse to increase revenue. The fact of the matter is when you overspend your means you have to either increase your income or decrease your expenses. At this particular point in time there is no way a spending cut alone could get us back to where we need to be. We have to increase taxes. The fact that it's being fought so hard just boggles my mind. Ask for spending cuts to go with it? Sure, but to go in saying that raises aren't an option is just stupid. You back yourself into a corner where you are forced to either screw the country or give your future opponent a golden campaign video showing that you didn't do what you promised.

I really don't understand why they haven't come in saying. We realize there need to be tax/revenue increases. While we believe these increases go against our general party policy, we realize that they are at least temporarily necesarry and therefore we will agree to them on a basis to be a reevaluated at a later date. While we are willing to make these cuts, we also need dems to understand that some spending cuts will also need to take place(and while some of them will be military in nature, some also need to be entitlement programs)
i like dis guy
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Old 11-14-2012, 04:10 PM   #25
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Default Re: The Fiscal Cliff

Quote:
Originally Posted by raiderfan19
I don't really understand how the main GOP can be so stupid and do such a poor job of solidifying its base. I consider myself an independent but I have seriously conservative leanings. At several times throughout history, I'd have been a clear cut republican but they've just gotten so hypocritical.

You can't simultaneously cry about the debt being too high and steadfastly refuse to increase revenue. The fact of the matter is when you overspend your means you have to either increase your income or decrease your expenses. At this particular point in time there is no way a spending cut alone could get us back to where we need to be. We have to increase taxes. The fact that it's being fought so hard just boggles my mind. Ask for spending cuts to go with it? Sure, but to go in saying that raises aren't an option is just stupid. You back yourself into a corner where you are forced to either screw the country or give your future opponent a golden campaign video showing that you didn't do what you promised.

I really don't understand why they haven't come in saying. We realize there need to be tax/revenue increases. While we believe these increases go against our general party policy, we realize that they are at least temporarily necesarry and therefore we will agree to them on a basis to be a reevaluated at a later date. While we are willing to make these cuts, we also need dems to understand that some spending cuts will also need to take place(and while some of them will be military in nature, some also need to be entitlement programs)

Someone should forward this to the death star so Emperor Norquist and Darth Boehner can read it.

Repped
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Old 11-14-2012, 04:15 PM   #26
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Default Re: The Fiscal Cliff

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonDadda59
That will only happen if Lord Norquist gets his wishes. All of the forecasts concerning from now until 2014 say jobs will be added, the unemployment rate will decrease, the GDP will grow, housing will strengthen. Everything is bullish outside of the fox news keep em scared and ignorant bubble. There's only one way we suffer a setback, and if that happens the Repubs will get a new mandate:



I certainly hope the forecasts are right. Remember very few people saw 2008 coming.
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Old 11-14-2012, 04:19 PM   #27
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Default Re: The Fiscal Cliff

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Originally Posted by DonDadda59
Barry O lays down the law:
Obama to open talks with $1.6 trillion plan to raise taxes on corporations, wealthy



By Zachary A. Goldfarb and Lori Montgomery, Published: November 13

President Obama is taking a hard line with congressional Republicans heading into negotiations over the year-end “fiscal cliff,” making no opening concessions and calling for far more in new taxes than Republicans have so far been willing to consider.

Obama plans to open talks using his most recent budget proposal, which sought to raise taxes on corporations and the wealthy by $1.6 trillion over the next decade, White House press secretary Jay Carney said Tuesday. That’s double the sum that House Speaker John A. Boehner (R-Ohio) offered Obama during secret debt negotiations in 2011.

Obama has been pressing to let the George W. Bush-era tax cuts expire at the end of the year for the wealthiest 2 percent of the nation’s households, a tax hike adamantly opposed by Republicans. But Carney suggested that even the revenue generated by letting those tax cuts end would not be enough to tame the national debt and reenergize the economy.

Meanwhile, Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner and other senior Democrats on Tuesday said Obama would not be willing to maintain the Bush tax rates in exchange for a cap on deductions for households earning more than $250,000 a year, a leading Republican alternative.

“I don’t see how you do this without higher rates. I don’t think there’s any feasible, realistic way to do it,” Geithner said at a conference in Washington. “When you take a cold, hard look at the amount of resources you can raise from that top 2 percent of Americans through limiting deductions, you will find yourself disappointed relative to the magnitude of the revenue increases that we need.”

Democrats said Obama is likely to maintain a tough stance Friday, when Boehner and other congressional leaders are due to gather at the White House for their first face-to-face discussions about how to avoid the fiscal cliff. Fresh off a resounding electoral victory in which they kept the White House and picked up seats in the House and Senate, Democrats said there is no reason to compromise now on a central plank of the president’s platform.

“It was an intrinsic part of his campaign, and the public supports it. So what more do you want?” said Rep. Sander M. Levin (D-Mich.), the senior Democrat on the tax-writing House Ways and Means Committee.

...

Obama’s 2013 budget sought to reduce borrowing over the next 10 years by about $4 trillion, counting $1.1 trillion in agency cuts already in force. In addition to raising taxes, Obama proposed to slice $340 billion from health-care programs and to count about $1 trillion in savings from ending the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

His budget request did not include reductions to health and retirement benefits, but Obama did consider such changes in his 2011 talks with Boehner, including raising the Medicare eligibility age from 65 to 67 and applying a stingier measure of inflation to Social Security.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/busine...02a_story.html
So there you have it, the President proposes to raise $1.6 trillion through taxing 2% of the country while maintaining tax breaks for 98% of the population, cutting borrowing by $4 trillion, cutting certain entitlements by hundreds of billions, and saving $1 trillion by ending our military engagements in the Middle East.

Sounds like a plan to me

Obama's first press conference after the election is coming up in a few minutes.

So raising the taxes of corporations helps the economy? Explain how. And also, why is raising taxes for a certain group helpful at all? Does that not discourage growth by punishing the successful?
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Old 11-14-2012, 04:22 PM   #28
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Default Re: The Fiscal Cliff

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonDadda59
That will only happen if Lord Norquist gets his wishes. All of the forecasts concerning from now until 2014 say jobs will be added, the unemployment rate will decrease, the GDP will grow, housing will strengthen. Everything is bullish outside of the fox news keep em scared and ignorant bubble. There's only one way we suffer a setback, and if that happens the Repubs will get a new mandate:


The "growth" we are seeing now would not exist if Republicans didn't own the House.
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Old 11-14-2012, 04:22 PM   #29
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Default Re: The Fiscal Cliff

Quote:
Originally Posted by rufuspaul
I certainly hope the forecasts are right. Remember very few people saw 2008 coming.
The forecasts before the stimulus passed were all saying unemployment would be below 6% by now. Take anything the liberals cite with a grain of salt. The complete opposite is usually true. The only reason unemployment is not at 10-11% percent now is because the labor force shrunk so much, it's in a 30 year low.
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Old 11-14-2012, 04:23 PM   #30
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Default Re: The Fiscal Cliff

Quote:
Originally Posted by raiderfan19
I don't really understand how the main GOP can be so stupid and do such a poor job of solidifying its base. I consider myself an independent but I have seriously conservative leanings. At several times throughout history, I'd have been a clear cut republican but they've just gotten so hypocritical.

You can't simultaneously cry about the debt being too high and steadfastly refuse to increase revenue. The fact of the matter is when you overspend your means you have to either increase your income or decrease your expenses. At this particular point in time there is no way a spending cut alone could get us back to where we need to be. We have to increase taxes. The fact that it's being fought so hard just boggles my mind. Ask for spending cuts to go with it? Sure, but to go in saying that raises aren't an option is just stupid. You back yourself into a corner where you are forced to either screw the country or give your future opponent a golden campaign video showing that you didn't do what you promised.

I really don't understand why they haven't come in saying. We realize there need to be tax/revenue increases. While we believe these increases go against our general party policy, we realize that they are at least temporarily necesarry and therefore we will agree to them on a basis to be a reevaluated at a later date. While we are willing to make these cuts, we also need dems to understand that some spending cuts will also need to take place(and while some of them will be military in nature, some also need to be entitlement programs)

It's different when raising revenue is taking from one group and giving to another.
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