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Old 12-24-2012, 11:39 AM   #76
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Default Re: The Fiscal Cliff

I like this idea by Tyler Cowen a lot:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/23/bu...-way.html?_r=0
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Old 12-24-2012, 12:02 PM   #77
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Default Re: The Fiscal Cliff

I like the idea of raising Medicare to 67. The so-called spending cut offer being tossed around is deceptive and refers to cutting the increase in spending, which isn't good enough, imo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasheed1
this is a little off the subject, but Obama is such a f*ckin chump for not nominating either Rice or Chuck Hagel. GOP keeps having a fit, and Obama keeps caving. Everyone knows why they are doing it and he just caves anyway.

Nominating Rice after Benghazi would have been inappropriate and insulting. I'm pleasantly surprised that he didn't do it.
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Old 12-24-2012, 12:17 PM   #78
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Default Re: The Fiscal Cliff

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaqAttack3234
I like the idea of raising Medicare to 67. The so-called spending cut offer being tossed around is deceptive and refers to cutting the increase in spending, which isn't good enough, imo.

I think thats a terrible idea. Those people are getting thousands of dollars taken out of their pockets when you move the retirement age.

there are plenty of other "oxes to gore" without offering up the people on medicare first.

Plus Obama won the election and the majority of people in the country (including republicans) are opposed to medicare cuts

there is no need to go there right now.

Quote:
Nominating Rice after Benghazi would have been inappropriate and insulting. I'm pleasantly surprised that he didn't do it.


That doesnt make any sense...

Condaleeza Rice told bigger more important lies on a regular basis.

Susan Rice was qualified for the job, and she wasnt reason for the break down. The GOP only plays these juvenile games because they want to open up a seat for scott brown in the senate.


Its totally political and Obama is bargaining with the GOP when they have no leverage and no clout


Obama is dumb for caving to GOP.


It makes all the more ridiculous when republicans pretend he is some left wing marxist

The guy is trying to capitulate, but the republicans wont let him
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Old 12-24-2012, 12:31 PM   #79
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Default Re: The Fiscal Cliff

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jailblazers7
I like this idea by Tyler Cowen a lot:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/23/bu...-way.html?_r=0

Yes, people need to be aware that in 5 years or a decade down the road that taxes will need to be much higher. Borrowing cost will also increase during the same time period but that is a different discussion.

With that being said is the current system efficient or effective in collecting tax revenue?? For example, I would like to see higher consumption rates and off set partially by personal income tax cuts. People would actually have a choice in whether they would spend, invest, or save.

However, not to contradict my first statement, people should accept that the low tax era of the last decade and a half needs to end if they are serious about slaying the deficit.
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Old 12-24-2012, 12:32 PM   #80
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Default Re: The Fiscal Cliff

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasheed1
I think thats a terrible idea. Those people are getting thousands of dollars taken out of their pockets when you move the retirement age.

there are plenty of other "oxes to gore" without offering up the people on medicare first.

Plus Obama won the election and the majority of people in the country (including republicans) are opposed to medicare cuts

there is no need to go there right now.

67 isn't particularly old these days, I think it makes sense. I'm not saying it should be the first priority by any stretch, though.

Quote:
That doesnt make any sense...

Condaleeza Rice told bigger more important lies on a regular basis.

Susan Rice was qualified for the job, and she wasnt reason for the break down. The GOP only plays these juvenile games because they want to open up a seat for scott brown in the senate.


Its totally political and Obama is bargaining with the GOP when they have no leverage and no clout


Obama is dumb for caving to GOP.


It makes all the more ridiculous when republicans pretend he is some left wing marxist

The guy is trying to capitulate, but the republicans wont let him

I don't see why nominate Rice, there are qualified people without the baggage. Going all over TV and telling blatant lies is not something I think should be ignored. I would have seen a nomination for Rice as nothing more than a fuck you to the Republicans. Why her right after Benghazi? The nomination never made sense to me. Obama often comes off as arrogant to me so I was expecting him to do it, but I'm happy he didn't.
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Old 12-24-2012, 12:35 PM   #81
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Default Re: The Fiscal Cliff

Wouldn't raising the age to 67 be grandfathered in for much younger people who probably be working longer if recent trends continue??
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Old 12-24-2012, 02:57 PM   #82
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Default Re: The Fiscal Cliff

Quote:
Originally Posted by MMM
Yes, people need to be aware that in 5 years or a decade down the road that taxes will need to be much higher. Borrowing cost will also increase during the same time period but that is a different discussion.

With that being said is the current system efficient or effective in collecting tax revenue?? For example, I would like to see higher consumption rates and off set partially by personal income tax cuts. People would actually have a choice in whether they would spend, invest, or save.

However, not to contradict my first statement, people should accept that the low tax era of the last decade and a half needs to end if they are serious about slaying the deficit.

True, but the House Republicans won't even agree to raising taxes on those earning $1 mil+, which is only like 0.3% of the population, so I wouldn't hold my breath on them agreeing to across the board increases (especially since Boehner's 'plan B' nonsense was just a veiled tax increase on the middle class and featured more tax breaks for the top bracket).

The truth that should be apparent to everyone watching the events unfold is that the House Repubs have no interest in getting a deal done, not even put forward by their 'leader'. All they've managed to do is give the President even more leverage than he came in with. The Teabaggers have gone on record that they will take themselves out of the discussion and let the White House and Boehner fix the mess they contributed to creating.

All this will do is allow Obama to swoop in and look like the night in shining armor when he presents the bill that saves 98% of the country from the tax hikes. Anyone who votes against that in the New Year will be crucified by the press, and voting public.
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Old 12-24-2012, 06:16 PM   #83
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Default Re: The Fiscal Cliff

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaqAttack3234
.



I don't see why nominate Rice, there are qualified people without the baggage. Going all over TV and telling blatant lies is not something I think should be ignored. I would have seen a nomination for Rice as nothing more than a fuck you to the Republicans. Why her right after Benghazi? The nomination never made sense to me. Obama often comes off as arrogant to me so I was expecting him to do it, but I'm happy he didn't.

First of all, you completely dodged the point that the hypocrite Mccain didn't seem to have a problem with Condoleeza Rice's misstatements about intelligence in Iraq that lead us into a misguided war that inflicted considerable damage to the country. He didn't seem to have a problem with Rice being nominated despite that, and what do you think was worse? Susan Rice on Bengazi, or Condoleeza Rice on Iraq? Yet he readily approved her for SOS. And unless you're in some Fox News echo chamber there is no evidence that she told "blatant lies" as opposed to parroting what was given to her by the CIA. Bengazi was just a political smokescreen designed to hurt Obama's foreign service cred before the election. Nothing more, nothing less. Not that there aren't questions to be asked about it, however it was certainly elevated for political reasons.

Second of all, given that Kerry is now vacating his senate seat in Mass, and Brown lost his seat to Warren earlier, does it not seem at least plausible that all of this faux outrage on Rice's statements was more likely a ruse to create enough of a scene around her to damage the likelihood of her being nominated so that the ensuing available senate seat would be open for Scott Brown to pursue?

As for taxing the rich, anyone who disputes this idea please research just how much the discrepancy between the ultra rich and the rest of society has grown in the past thirty years. As opposed to making 40 percent more than the average worker in the 70s, the average CEO today makes like 4OO percent. If you look at any charts on the matter it shows the top 1 percent's wealth increasing at an extreme rate while everyone else's earning's have flatilined (though the cost of living has risen). People are working harder than ever and still having trouble making ends meet. Corporations are sitting on RECORD PROFITS. People need to wake up and realize that it's not about socialism or all of that crap that they throw at anyone who dares to raise the subject of societal inequities. Its about basic fairness, and the ability of a society to prosper and not face sharp decline when the vast majority of the population is having its resources plundered so that a few people at the top can increase their wealth to levels never seen before in human history.


For God's sake, please check out this link and then tell me why some of you think that the current situation is anything approaching fair.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...ca-chart-graph

And these people have brainwashed a lot of people into fighting against their own self interests for them!

Last edited by Knoe Itawl : 12-24-2012 at 06:21 PM.
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Old 12-31-2012, 06:20 AM   #84
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Default Re: The Fiscal Cliff

It's coming...
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Old 12-31-2012, 11:23 AM   #85
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Default Re: The Fiscal Cliff

I'm shocked. I thought Obama would cave.
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Old 12-31-2012, 11:40 AM   #86
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Default Re: The Fiscal Cliff

Quote:
Originally Posted by longhornfan1234
I'm shocked. I thought Obama would cave.
why would you be shocked? because you have been spot on with all of your political predictions so far right? you are the Konex of the GOP.
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Old 12-31-2012, 12:33 PM   #87
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Default Re: The Fiscal Cliff

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Originally Posted by rezznor
why would you be shocked? because you have been spot on with all of your political predictions so far right? you are the Konex of the GOP.



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Old 12-31-2012, 12:38 PM   #88
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Default Re: The Fiscal Cliff

The inconsistencies by our politicians throughout this whole scenario is insane. Politicians are afraid of the fiscal cliff because it will hurt the economy by forcing across the board austerity measures, yet the two sides are bickering in favor of different forms of austerity measures (tax increases vs spending decreases). Obama did initially include new stimulus but that has been gradually whittled away during the bargaining process.
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Old 12-31-2012, 01:11 PM   #89
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Default Re: The Fiscal Cliff

Looks like they've hammered out an agreement on some key issues-

Repubs agree to return tax rates to the Clinton Era for individuals making $400K+ and households making $450K+. Unemployment benefits will be extended. There's also some sort of agreement over the estate tax and capital gains. They are still haggling over spending cuts.

Even if there is a deal agreed to and voted on in the Senate today, the House most likely won't tackle it until tomorrow so the GOP members can claim they voted to decrease taxes instead of hiking them (across the board tax increases go into effect at midnight). Nice little loophole for them so they can lie to themselves and sleep easier at night
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Old 12-31-2012, 04:29 PM   #90
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Default Re: The Fiscal Cliff

We're offically going off the fiscal cliff via AP, CBS, others on twitter

https://twitter.com/AP
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