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Old 03-25-2013, 07:58 PM   #1576
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Default Re: 2012/13 Observation Deck

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMT
A place like UCLA would be a death knell for him. They don't seem to have a realistic view of what their program is. There's no "next John Wooden" ever going to happen.

you don't seem to have a realistic view of ucla fans. no one is expecting another wooden. i'm pretty sick of the media throwing that around the past couple days. let me guess, you think howland being let go was unfair?

-11 transfers in 5 years
-burned most his recruiting bridges in California (eg. pulling kendall Williams scholarship after being committed for 2 years)
-j. Anderson and drago both getting arrested (drago twice. he punched a woman, didn't get kicked off the team)
-si article

not including this year he only made the tourney once in 3 years. has 2 tourney wins in 5 years.

this is just off the top of my head. there is more I have forgotten about.

any other program would of fired him last year after the si scandal. if anything we were too forgiving.
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Old 03-25-2013, 08:00 PM   #1577
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Default Re: 2012/13 Observation Deck

LA is also a pro town. Even when UCLA was going to three straight Final Fours, I never felt the place really cared all that much about the program.

I was watching a game earlier this season, maybe the season before (I think)... Whenever the they were working on Pauley... And the game was off campus. The arena was completely empty for the entire game. Maybe 2000 fans...

You would never see that at any of the other blue blood programs. Or most programs that care about basketball, for that matter.

Maybe it was this game:
http://losangeles.sbnation.com/ucla-...auley-pavilion

Also found this which I forgot about...
http://blacksportsonline.com/home/20...owed-up-photo/

Although that was played in Texas.

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Old 03-25-2013, 08:13 PM   #1578
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Default Re: 2012/13 Observation Deck

^yeah our fan support sucks.(i'm at fault here too) there are a lot of reasons why but I don't want to make excuses.

the main reason is we're waiting for another wooden.

Last edited by beer : 03-25-2013 at 08:26 PM.
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Old 03-25-2013, 11:13 PM   #1579
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Default Re: 2012/13 Observation Deck

I hope to god that UConn is able to maintain being elite with the departure of Calhoun. Ollie seems solid as hell though It could be WAYYY worse for UCLA though they got the chip in 2006 and do still recruit NBA talent. Programs like Providence went down the absolute toilet after being considered elite and haven't even seen an NCAA tournament in more than a decade
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Old 03-26-2013, 12:04 AM   #1580
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Default Re: 2012/13 Observation Deck

UCLA isn't going to fall from their pedestal.... This isn't Providence (although I hear Ed Cooley is doing a good job). There's too much history and too much localized talent to become a disaster like that.

Some schools are untouchable and UCLA is one of them.

Just look at, another "untouchable", Indiana post-Sampson. The program gets sanctioned, put on probation, and blown up. Crean is barely reaching double digit wins for his first three seasons and now they're back to competing for championships.

How quickly that happens depends on the coaching hire (and the patience the program has for the hire) as everything else is pretty much lined up.

North Carolina hired Matt Doherty and he wasn't ready for the job. McCants and May threaten to leave the program if a change doesn't happen, Roy can't say no twice to Coach Smith, and two years later they are hoisting up a national championship trophy.

UK had trouble replacing Pitino. They had to deal with Tubby ball and Billy the Kid before Cal.

Make no mistake about it, duke will have trouble replacing K.

Other than the last example, what do they have in common? Rock bottom and then back to national prominence. UCLA may or may not struggle in the next few seasons, but their is no doubt in my mind they will be playing in Final Fours soon enough.
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Old 03-26-2013, 05:54 AM   #1581
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Default Re: 2012/13 Observation Deck

Quote:
Originally Posted by IGotACoolStory
You know the Big 10 a hell of a lot better than I do...

But I don't get the mediocrity comment. Tubby has given them their best seasons since that Final 4 run in 1997. And that season is removed from the record books anyhow.

1998 - 20-15 - Won the NIT (ineligible season)
1999 - 17-11 - NCAA first round (ineligible season)
2000 - 12-16
2001 - 18-14 - Second round NIT
2002 - 18-13 - Second round NIT
2003 - 19-14 - NIT 4th place
2004 - 12-18
2005 - 21-11 - NCAA first round
2006 - 16-15 - NIT second round
2007 - 9-22
---Tubby hired
2008 - 20-13 - NIT first round
2009 - 22-11 - NCAA first round
2010 - 21-14 - NCAA first round
2011 - 17-14
2012 - 23-15 - NIT 2nd place
2013 - 21-12 - NCAA 2nd round

I'm looking through their entire school history and other than a couple decently deep runs in the late 80's, the only way this team does anything in the tournament is if cheating is involved.

12 NCAA tournament appearances. 4 of them with asterisks. 3 of the remaining 8 under Tubby.

Again, this is Minnesota.... What exactly are they expecting here?


imo, this is Teague making a proactive decision. If recruiting was going better (maybe if Minn was in a better position for Jones or Vaughn in 2014) this move wouldn't be happening. Then again, we also likely look at Tubby's Minnesota time differently if Royce White wasn't batshit crazy. It has to be a difficult task keeping the rare 5 star Minnesota recruit at home. It's a risky move.

Teague ain't stupid, tho. I wanted UNC to hire to him when we were looking a couple years ago. It will be interesting to see who he hires.
I agree Tubby's given them their best string of success. But 20 win seasons in 2013 aren't 20 win seasons in 1993, most teams are playing close to 35 games now with conference tourneys. 13-15 loss seasons aren't exactly impressive.

His run at Minnesota was good, but by Minnesota standards, but by a well compensated coach standard? 1 NCAA win in your whole tenure is mediocre. Nobody's claiming Dan Monson was some great coach, but his conference record was 44-68. Tubby's? 46-62.

I'm not about to claim this isn't incredibly risky for Minnesota. They're basically a nobody now and can become a REAL nobody easily with a bad hire and set the program back a decade. But I don't get the reasoning that because a coach does OK that certain programs should just be content with that and not aim higher.

Minnesota's an odd program really. Despite being "Minnesota" the campus is smack dab in the middle of the Twin Cities, which are really underrated, it's a surprisingly urban campus, it's a pretty huge school, and have no competition in state, and Big Ten affiliation/money by default makes it a solid job. I know Minnesota's no HS hoops hotbed, but there is some talent. It's also cold as hell, the facilities are pretty terrible (fun as the nostalgia of The Barn is, that building's shit, and there's no practice facility), and there's absolutely no tradition.

If I'm a Gopher fan I'm skeptically encouraged. Just fired Tubby which says "just getting in the tourney's not enough," and he had a significant buyout (2.5 mil I believe) which says the new AD's not afraid to spend. Make a good hire here, get some donors to pony up for facilities upgrades, which I realize is a helluva lot easier said than done, maybe Minnesota can get something going.
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Old 03-26-2013, 08:08 AM   #1582
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Default Re: 2012/13 Observation Deck

Quote:
Originally Posted by InspiredLebowski
I agree Tubby's given them their best string of success. But 20 win seasons in 2013 aren't 20 win seasons in 1993, most teams are playing close to 35 games now with conference tourneys. 13-15 loss seasons aren't exactly impressive.

His run at Minnesota was good, but by Minnesota standards, but by a well compensated coach standard? 1 NCAA win in your whole tenure is mediocre. Nobody's claiming Dan Monson was some great coach, but his conference record was 44-68. Tubby's? 46-62.

I'm not about to claim this isn't incredibly risky for Minnesota. They're basically a nobody now and can become a REAL nobody easily with a bad hire and set the program back a decade. But I don't get the reasoning that because a coach does OK that certain programs should just be content with that and not aim higher.

Minnesota's an odd program really. Despite being "Minnesota" the campus is smack dab in the middle of the Twin Cities, which are really underrated, it's a surprisingly urban campus, it's a pretty huge school, and have no competition in state, and Big Ten affiliation/money by default makes it a solid job. I know Minnesota's no HS hoops hotbed, but there is some talent. It's also cold as hell, the facilities are pretty terrible (fun as the nostalgia of The Barn is, that building's shit, and there's no practice facility), and there's absolutely no tradition.

If I'm a Gopher fan I'm skeptically encouraged. Just fired Tubby which says "just getting in the tourney's not enough," and he had a significant buyout (2.5 mil I believe) which says the new AD's not afraid to spend. Make a good hire here, get some donors to pony up for facilities upgrades, which I realize is a helluva lot easier said than done, maybe Minnesota can get something going.

for the better part of 15 years Minnesota has been all about hockey. They really love that Gopher team in the Twin Cities and they have one of the country's best hockey programs, and in a way I think this has taken away from the basketball program. Not a lot of local donors who are going to drop millions for upgrades for a team that barely gets by during conference play.

I guess that brings us to Teague, I hear good things and there is a lot of optimism surrounding his future there. Not to mention his connection to Shaka, the rumour mill will be swirling. It's going to take a serious long term commitment from UM for Shaka, but this could be a major coup in college basketball if it goes down.
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Old 03-26-2013, 06:29 PM   #1583
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Default Re: 2012/13 Observation Deck

That's fair.

I still can't get over that it's Minnesota. I don't have the perspective as a Gopher, but I'm guessing a win into the tournament should probably suffice as a good season.

imo, the downside of the program is so low that why risk a good thing? It's not like Tubby will be coaching another 20 years.

It's like when NCSU fired Herb Sendek thinking they were better than him. He was consistently winning a game into the tournament with the occasional darkhorse Elite Eight-Final Four team. What happens? They hire the firey youngish coach and he can't even make the NCAA Tournament in all 5 of his years. Then they hire Gottfried and you can't convince me he's a better coach than Sendek... The room for mistake is smaller at NCSU than Minnesota, too.


Speaking of which... Source: UCLA Boosters Want Mark Gottfried lol This after Leslie and Brown put their names in the draft. Hearing even Warren is considering bolting. There's some transfer rumors as well.

The "comeback" was short-lived.

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Old 03-26-2013, 07:07 PM   #1584
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Default Re: 2012/13 Observation Deck

Quote:
Originally Posted by IGotACoolStory
That's fair.

I still can't get over that it's Minnesota. I don't have the perspective as a Gopher, but I'm guessing a win into the tournament should probably suffice as a good season.

imo, the downside of the program is so low that why risk a good thing? It's not like Tubby will be coaching another 20 years.

It's like when NCSU fired Herb Sendek thinking they were better than him. He was consistently winning a game into the tournament with the occasional darkhorse Elite Eight-Final Four team. What happens? They hire the firey youngish coach and he can't even make the NCAA Tournament in all 5 of his years. Then they hire Gottfried and you can't convince me he's a better coach than Sendek... The room for mistake is smaller at NCSU than Minnesota, too.


Speaking of which... Source: UCLA Boosters Want Mark Gottfried lol This after Leslie and Brown put their names in the draft. Hearing even Warren is considering bolting. There's some transfer rumors as well.

The "comeback" was short-lived.

I'm honestly more interested in what this means for NCState than it does for UCLA. For UCLA all I think this means is a fresh face for their status quo. The real mystery would be who got the State job. Losing Barber and/or Anya would be disastrous with Brown and Leslie leaving (and potentially Warren as well?)

Unrelated, Chris Collins interviewed for Northwestern:
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ap-sour...26--ncaab.html
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Old 03-26-2013, 07:41 PM   #1585
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Default Re: 2012/13 Observation Deck

You never know what's true... However, some murmurs that Warren and Purvis are tired of Gott and want out, rather if that's to the NBA or transferring. Even heard Tyler Lewis (mainly his dad's displeasure) might leave.

Warren did have that retweet saying his coach is terrible. And Lewis' dad is a pretty vocal guy. Not sure where the Purvis stuff comes from, other than his benching mid-season.

Really exciting offseason in that shithole. Curious to see how it turns out.
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Old 03-27-2013, 02:55 PM   #1586
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Default Re: 2012/13 Observation Deck

Quote:
Originally Posted by beer
you don't seem to have a realistic view of ucla fans. no one is expecting another wooden. i'm pretty sick of the media throwing that around the past couple days. let me guess, you think howland being let go was unfair?


You guess wrong. And the media doesn't shape my opinion much. I work from home, don't read blogs, don't watch ESPN for anything other than a game, listen to the radio a grand total of about 10 minutes a week. Don't listen to or watch the talking heads.

I have a very good friend who is a die hard UCLA Bruin, as are his group of friends. I never heard any of them clamor for Howland's dismissal over any of the other issues you mention. I have heard them scream about his failure to deliver a national title or consistent upper-echelon results.

Granted, it's a small sample, so far from scientific. That's why I said "they seem". But it has as every bit as much validity as anything a single UCLA fan like yourself would say to the contrary.
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Old 03-28-2013, 09:42 AM   #1587
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Default Re: 2012/13 Observation Deck

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bask...coach-vcu-rams

It's official, Shaka staying at VCU. The right choice imo, much more talent to be had in the DMV area now that VCU are legit players in the A-10. More than the Twin-Cities at least. UCLA never really seemed realistic, just the anti-Shaka Smart program if there ever was one.

In the funny storyline of the day, KAJ wants to coach KAJ. This literally 3 weeks after he said he wanted to coach the Bucks. What's next? Texas Legends? Shanghai Sharks?
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Old 03-28-2013, 06:06 PM   #1588
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Default Re: 2012/13 Observation Deck

From UCLA guys: UCLA's AD went to visit Brad Stevens, they had a meeting, and now the AD, Stevens, and his wife are all on the plane back to Los Angeles.

Would he?
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Old 03-28-2013, 06:10 PM   #1589
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Default Re: 2012/13 Observation Deck

Jim Larranaga is....quirky? That's the best way to put it. Watching this All-Access Miami piece right now, and Larranaga does some goofy ass stuff.
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Old 03-28-2013, 06:29 PM   #1590
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Default Re: 2012/13 Observation Deck

I like Vander Blue's game.
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