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Old 11-26-2012, 12:17 AM   #151
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Default Re: 2012/13 Observation Deck

i have never missed a ucla basketball or football game since a year before i attended the university. i'll officially not watch another game until howland is fired. blowing a 17 point lead to cal ****ing poly and losing? unacceptable.
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Old 11-26-2012, 12:19 AM   #152
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Default Re: 2012/13 Observation Deck

Should have loss to Georgia and UCI.

UCLA is incredibly overrated again. What a shocker...


Tyler Lamb transferred early today.

That makes it 9 separate recruits from Mater Dei transferring in the last 9 years. 11 total transfers between those 9 players.

Worst. Basketball Factory. Ever.
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Old 11-26-2012, 12:22 AM   #153
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Default Re: 2012/13 Observation Deck

I don't know how big of basketball rivals SDSU and USC are, but after tonight they're going to hate each other. At least the players on these current rosters will hate each other.

Some dirty and cheap flagrant/intentional fouls by USC in the final few minutes.

And clearly, right now at least, UCLA is vastly overrated....again. I hope we're not going to be saying the same thing about UNC for the second time in four seasons.
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Old 11-26-2012, 12:30 AM   #154
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Default Re: 2012/13 Observation Deck

Seeing how UCLA lost makes it even worse.

Tied 68-68 a UCLA player intentionally fouls with 14 seconds left. Cal Poly makes both FTs and win 70-68.
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Old 11-26-2012, 01:37 AM   #155
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Default Re: 2012/13 Observation Deck

How do you feel?

This is my line of thinking:

1) 2010 was everything bad happening that could happen.
-Overblown expectations from the pre-season polls.
-A severe lack of leadership within the roster.
-Freshman class was a building block, not instant impact.
-Returning players didn't step up, particularly from the seniors.
-Terrible chemistry (very surprising from a Roy Williams team). There are quotes from players that said the team was divided.
-An unbelievably terrible luck with injuries.

In 2006 it was the exact opposite. Underrated, the best leader Roy has ever coached (his words) stepped up, returning role players willing to take bigger roles, a group of frosh ready to produce, great chemistry, and fortunate luck with health.

Back to 2010, I'm not sure what was the singular piece that turned that season sour--if there was one. I do believe we definitely make the NCAA Tournament with a healthy team. I realize a lot of the fallout gets pointed back to the three transfers and they're partly to blame. But (imo) most of the blame should probably fall on Ginyard and Thompson.

Look, I know what we were getting from Ginyard as a player. He's not as bad UNC fans make him out to be (watch the 2007 NCAA Tournament and tell me he didn't belong) because people seem to only remember him post-injuries. However, that is the player he was as a senior and I didn't expect him to take a Noel-jump or anything. Deon is another story.

But those guys were a part of the winningest group of players in UNC history. Not a hyperbole. The 05 class is literally the golden era in terms of winning percentage and total wins in the history of the program. I expected more in the leadership department from them. Don't want to get completely sucked in to this topic again, so...

All of that brings me to this season.

2) The 2013 season
-Overblown expectations?
--Overrated, sure. Most UNC fans said so when we saw the rankings. 2006 gave unreal expectations for what a rebuilding year should be, while 2010 humbled us back down to earth. General expectations seems realistic (5-6 seed first weekend NCAAs) for the mass. Put it this way: When you are rationalizing your ranking by talking about other teams instead of your own, your team is probably not that good. That seemed to be the case this off-season.
-Leadership?
--This I can't comment on yet. However, McDonald and Strickland went out of their way to say that wouldn't be a problem this time around. Those two, of course, being the only remaining players from 2010.
-Freshman class: building block or instant impact?
--Thus far, I think it's a little of both. It's difficult because I had no expectations for this class, seeing as it is one of the lowest rated (lowest overall?) Roy has ever brought into this program. To this point they have overachieved. I see two legitimate freshman starters in Johnson and Paige, and James and Tokoto can obviously play right now. Problem is the competition hasn't been great, yet.
-Returning players?
--McAdoo has clearly stepped up his game. Not sure how much after watching him in Maui... But I think a truly poor #1 option, which sounds much worse than it actually is. The other guys are about the same which is good and bad. Good in that they are steady and extremely effective in their roles. Bad in that they are no longer surrounded by 3 lottery picks. PJ is the tipping point in all of this and Bullock is already better than anyone we had on 2010.
-Chemistry:
--See the "leadership" comments. In post game interviews, the freshman are always talking about how much Bullock, Strickland, and McDonald have been helping them.
-Injuries:
--We shall see. We have certainly been on the short end of this stick since 2009.

As a whole, I actually feel really good about the future of this team. Although more towards the next season or two.

This year? It will come down to 4 key points:
1) McAdoo, Bullock, and Hariston -- How many, if any, can consistently come out and play against the best teams?
2) The freshman and how they progress throughout the season.
3) Injuries.
4) Roy Williams. This is the type of team Coach Smith takes and grooms them into a legitimate top ten team by March. Roy absolutely needs to make adjustments in his game planning (which he started to do in Maui). I have ideas, but I'm no coach. He's supposed to know more about basketball in his little pinky than I do my entire self, so let's see him show why he wins nearly 80% of his games.

Yep, this is what goes through my head when I know I need to be sleeping. An addiction, really, and I wouldn't have it any other way.
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Old 11-26-2012, 05:39 PM   #156
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Default Re: 2012/13 Observation Deck

Quote:
Originally Posted by SourPatchKids
Northridge going to be 7-0 if they can pull this one off tonight.

I loved the effort they showed. Stayed relatively close, forced BYU to go from zone to man as they kept buttering up the zone, weathered the first half run and even had a really nice run in the 2nd half, just didn't have the second one in them which many small conference schools realistically don't.

6-1 as the nations youngest team with half the wins being in double digits and a tough loss @ BYU. @ UCLA and @ ASU will both be exciting games, and both are winnable in my opinion.

I mean, UCLA is my major team to cheer for, but losing to Cal Poly and nearly losing to UC Irvine, both teams are a combined 5-6 while playing poor competition (Nevada probably being the best team either side has faced, and they lost to them), but I firmly believe CSUN can beat them. ASU is a good 4-1 with a loss to Creighton, but feel confident that Mats can upset.

I love watching Stephen Hicks play, truly believe he has to be one of the best players on a small/mid-major conference school. 18.4/8.4 in 29.6 minutes on 55/56/82 shooting. Beast. Really need him to play well against Bazz/Adams/Kyle along with THE (best nickname in sports?), Maxwell and Perry doing well enough to protect the paint. Also think Landon Drew will beast.
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Old 11-26-2012, 07:35 PM   #157
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Default Re: 2012/13 Observation Deck

Quote:
Originally Posted by HB40TheNextStar
How do you feel?

This is my line of thinking:

1) 2010 was everything bad happening that could happen.
-Overblown expectations from the pre-season polls.
-A severe lack of leadership within the roster.
-Freshman class was a building block, not instant impact.
-Returning players didn't step up, particularly from the seniors.
-Terrible chemistry (very surprising from a Roy Williams team). There are quotes from players that said the team was divided.
-An unbelievably terrible luck with injuries.
That's pretty much all that anyone should really look at regarding 2010. The injuries, one right after another, ruined what was already going to be a down year. But all your other points are very valid. UNC wasn't a top 10 team that year (like their preseason ranking tried to indicate) even when healthy, but they were an NCAA tournament team.

And, yes, the team chemistry (from what I heard/read) sounded like a bunch of high school drama nonsense where half the team sided with "this" guy and the other half the team sided with "that" guy.

Quote:
Back to 2010, I'm not sure what was the singular piece that turned that season sour--if there was one. I do believe we definitely make the NCAA Tournament with a healthy team. I realize a lot of the fallout gets pointed back to the three transfers and they're partly to blame. But (imo) most of the blame should probably fall on Ginyard and Thompson.
It was just a really, really weird season. In hindsight, why in the hell did Roy even entertain the John Henson at SF experiment, let alone go through with it? But I agree, the two seniors that year showed virtually zero leadership. Neither were NBA talents (or even NBA athletes) and, on a young team, it didn't help any that our two seniors was a below the rim 6'8" PF, and a 6'5" "defensive specialist" who wasn't even that good of a defender and couldn't shoot. Or course that's being unfair because that was post-injuries Ginyard. He was on his way to being a stud before that.


Quote:
But those guys were a part of the winningest group of players in UNC history. Not a hyperbole. The 05 class is literally the golden era in terms of winning percentage and total wins in the history of the program. I expected more in the leadership department from them. Don't want to get completely sucked in to this topic again, so...
Again, I agree. It was a major disappointment from a leadership standpoint.


2) The 2013 season
-Overblown expectations?
--Overrated, sure. Most UNC fans said so when we saw the rankings. 2006 gave unreal expectations for what a rebuilding year should be, while 2010 humbled us back down to earth. General expectations seems realistic (5-6 seed first weekend NCAAs) for the mass. Put it this way: When you are rationalizing your ranking by talking about other teams instead of your own, your team is probably not that good. That seemed to be the case this off-season.[/quote]
This. Just like in 2010, people like to "laugh and point" about UNC being so overrated, when any level-headed UNC fan (then and now) would tell you they weren't worthy of their preseason ranking. I felt in 2010 they shouldn't have even been preseason top 10; and this year I thought they should've been ranked in the 20-25 range.

Quote:
-Leadership?
--This I can't comment on yet. However, McDonald and Strickland went out of their way to say that wouldn't be a problem this time around. Those two, of course, being the only remaining players from 2010.
I was disappointed in what I saw in the first half of the Butler game. We fell behind big early, and none of the guys really stepped-up. The guards (Dex, Reggie, Leslie) kept jacking up threes, and McAdoo couldn't have looked any more disinterested. The second half of that game, though, was encouraging. A completely different team came out of the locker room and trimmed a 30 point deficit to 6 or 7 and had the ball to make get it under 5.

Quote:
-Freshman class: building block or instant impact?
--Thus far, I think it's a little of both. It's difficult because I had no expectations for this class, seeing as it is one of the lowest rated (lowest overall?) Roy has ever brought into this program. To this point they have overachieved. I see two legitimate freshman starters in Johnson and Paige, and James and Tokoto can obviously play right now. Problem is the competition hasn't been great, yet.
There's going to be a lot of ups-and-downs with a freshman running the point in Roy's offense. I've already made my piece with that. I'm not saying Paige will be next Felton or Lawson, but both of them struggled their freshman seasons. However, playing with a lot of passion and intensity is something I've seen in Paige's game (even when he's struggling). I wish we could make Johnson and James one player this season. Johnson is an active player with a high motor and has shown good ability to score around the basket, but he's weak and gets pushed around too easily. Meanwhile, James has shown brief flashes of being a defensive force, and is virtually immovable once he gets position.

Quote:
-Returning players?
--McAdoo has clearly stepped up his game. Not sure how much after watching him in Maui... But I think a truly poor #1 option, which sounds much worse than it actually is. The other guys are about the same which is good and bad. Good in that they are steady and extremely effective in their roles. Bad in that they are no longer surrounded by 3 lottery picks. PJ is the tipping point in all of this and Bullock is already better than anyone we had on 2010.
The season will ultimately go as P.J. and Reggie go. If they both realize they can be much more than three point shooters, then UNC will be pretty good by the end of the season. Both have prototypical wing size (P.J. at 6'5" 220 and Bullock at 6'6"-6'7" 210) and have shown they can be lethal scorers when the mix up dribble drives with their three point shooting. I think P.J. is the most talented of the two, and both have much higher ceilings than perimeter player on the 2010 team.

Quote:
-Chemistry:
--See the "leadership" comments. In post game interviews, the freshman are always talking about how much Bullock, Strickland, and McDonald have been helping them.
It's early, but the chemistry already seems better than it was in 2010. Obviously it won't always look that way, but at least these guys seem to fit together better.

Quote:
-Injuries:
--We shall see. We have certainly been on the short end of this stick since 2009.
Reports today that P.J. is hurt and will probably miss the Indiana game already has me (and a lot of UNC fans) in "here we go again" mode. Hopefully it's just a minor injury that will only cause him to miss one game.

Quote:
This year? It will come down to 4 key points:
1) McAdoo, Bullock, and Hariston -- How many, if any, can consistently come out and play against the best teams?
2) The freshman and how they progress throughout the season.
3) Injuries.
4) Roy Williams. This is the type of team Coach Smith takes and grooms them into a legitimate top ten team by March. Roy absolutely needs to make adjustments in his game planning (which he started to do in Maui). I have ideas, but I'm no coach. He's supposed to know more about basketball in his little pinky than I do my entire self, so let's see him show why he wins nearly 80% of his games.
Agree with all of this. Like I said, this season will ultimately go as P.J. and Reggie go; McAdoo as well. However, the "x-factor" in having a good season probably ultimately hinges on Pagie's development. He was supposed to come in and be Marshall's back-up his freshman year. Instead, he's been thrown into the fire. If he continues to improve, I don't think the other freshmen's improvement is as vital. Obviously they can't stay where they are now, but Paige is the key.
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Old 11-27-2012, 07:19 AM   #158
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Default Re: 2012/13 Observation Deck

UCLA reminds me of uconn last year, a lot of weapons but they just couldn't come together to win games, I think they'll get it together in time for the tournament
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Old 11-27-2012, 06:29 PM   #159
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Default Re: 2012/13 Observation Deck

Quote:
Originally Posted by beer
i have never missed a ucla basketball or football game since a year before i attended the university. i'll officially not watch another game until howland is fired. blowing a 17 point lead to cal ****ing poly and losing? unacceptable.

im surprised fans weren't asking for his head when the whole reeves nelson debacle happened. all the press that came out of it really changed how i viewe him and the program.
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Old 11-27-2012, 07:21 PM   #160
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Default Re: 2012/13 Observation Deck

Not that I expected UNC to win tonight. In fact, I thought even at 100% there was a chance this could be a 20ish point win for Indiana. But now, with P.J. Hairston not playing - one of UNC's 2-3 best shooters and one of two perimeter players who can actually put the ball on the floor and score off dribble penetration - I'm really scared.

Of course Hairston wasn't even get as many minutes as he probably should get, so it may not really matter.
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Old 11-27-2012, 08:51 PM   #161
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Default Re: 2012/13 Observation Deck

Quote:
Originally Posted by Burgz V2
im surprised fans weren't asking for his head when the whole reeves nelson debacle happened. all the press that came out of it really changed how i viewe him and the program.

they were... go look at articles on any ucla blog or posts on any ucla forum before the story broke and while it broke. They wanted him fired before for missing the tourney 2 out of 3 years. To them, the si article was the final nail in the coffin.

all ucla fans and alums want him fired. about half of us (including myself) were silenced after the recruiting class and said ok, we'll give him this year to redeem himself. because there was no way our AD would fire him after that class. (our AD is a well documented idiot) well it doesn't matter and it didn't take long, he's failing.

on another note. george dohrmann has been attacking ucla since the harrick days. this is probably the fourth smear piece he's come out with against us, all of which have failed miserably(the point of dohrmann originally looking into our program was to look for recruiting violations, which he didn't find. but the man still needs a story!). i don't believe him to be honest. most if not all the players nelson supposedly bullied have denied it. (i found this link with a quick google search, it doesn't have all the players and quotes. there are a lot more than just honeycutt denying it.)

Quote:
According to Nelson's lawsuit, the article claimed he was not punished after fighting with multiple teammates and intentionally injuring them during practice. The S.I. article also claims Nelson "urinated on [a teammate's] bed and clothes" -- purely as revenge for the player allegedly squealing about a New Year's Eve party.

But Nelson's high-powered entertainment lawyer Keith Fink says they can prove Dohrmann "recklessly and negligently failed to investigate the claims in the article." The lawsuit includes declarations from 18 UCLA players and ex-players who deny every allegation about Nelson.

In fact, former teammate Tyler Honeycutt says, "Nelson did not pile my clothes on my bed, and he certainly did not urinate on my clothes." According to the suit, most of the players say Dohrmann never contacted them -- and the 2 who were contacted denied the allegations.

The lawsuit further claims the S.I. writer has a longstanding beef with UCLA because he "publicly attacked UCLA's Baron Davis for driving a black 1991 Chevy Blazer, which Dohrmann publicly claimed had been purchased in violation of NCAA rules." NCAA investigators later shot down those allegations.

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/2012/05/23/reeves...#ixzz2DTVaPqni

fire howland.
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Old 11-27-2012, 10:12 PM   #162
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Default Re: 2012/13 Observation Deck

Quote:
Originally Posted by beer
they were... go look at articles on any ucla blog or posts on any ucla forum before the story broke and while it broke. They wanted him fired before for missing the tourney 2 out of 3 years. To them, the si article was the final nail in the coffin.

all ucla fans and alums want him fired. about half of us (including myself) were silenced after the recruiting class and said ok, we'll give him this year to redeem himself. because there was no way our AD would fire him after that class. (our AD is a well documented idiot) well it doesn't matter and it didn't take long, he's failing.

on another note. george dohrmann has been attacking ucla since the harrick days. this is probably the fourth smear piece he's come out with against us, all of which have failed miserably(the point of dohrmann originally looking into our program was to look for recruiting violations, which he didn't find. but the man still needs a story!). i don't believe him to be honest. most if not all the players nelson supposedly bullied have denied it. (i found this link with a quick google search, it doesn't have all the players and quotes. there are a lot more than just honeycutt denying it.)



fire howland.

with respect dohrmann, as a big program there will always be detractors. however, the response he had to Nelson's actions was despicable, simply, he allowed him to act that way because he was an important player to the team. you think Bill Self or Billy Donavan would tolerate that? Hells to the fcuk no.

the recruiting class actually makes me hate him even more. the only reason these players (Shabazz, Anderson especially) went there is because they are likely one and dones if they have a great season, taking into consideration as well that they will likely be running the show not howland.

unfortunately, i dont see it happening anytime soon if this recruiting class plays wins or play well in Pac 12
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Old 11-27-2012, 10:27 PM   #163
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Default Re: 2012/13 Observation Deck

Kept it pretty close most of the half. But how does a Roy Williams team get beat down the floor over and over? You go against that every damn day in practice, and I'd venture to guess Indiana had 10-15 points in the first half just because Zeller or someone else outran UNC after a made basket and got an easy dunk or layup.

F***. Indiana closed the first half on a 15-6 run and now they're up 9. UNC's two upperclassmen guards are playing like shit, too. JMM has been solid but, of all people, their freshman PG has probably been the best player. Paige has really impressed me.
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Old 11-27-2012, 10:37 PM   #164
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Default Re: 2012/13 Observation Deck

well we agree on one point. we both hate howland. i really don't care if the SI article is or isn't true at this point in time, i just want him fired. unfortunately the story didn't get him fired, but it does look like this embarrassment of a season will.

as far as the recruits running the show... i wish. maybe ucla basketball would actually be fun to watch. it's still howland's unbearable offense. and you can add jordan adams to that list. he has stated many times it was his goal to be a one and done. sucks cause he's my fav of the recruits so far but whatever, doubt he'd stay when the new coaching staff is hired next year.

but can you elaborate on this
Quote:
the recruiting class actually makes me hate him even more. the only reason these players (Shabazz, Anderson especially) went there is because they are likely one and dones if they have a great season

isn't that why all those top recruits go to kentucky.... cause they're one and dones and want to have a successful season... maybe i'm just not understanding what you're trying to say.
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Old 11-27-2012, 10:49 PM   #165
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Default Re: 2012/13 Observation Deck

This is more like what I expected. Indiana starts the second half on a 10-0 run. UNC has 0 points in the first 4 minutes.

No way in hell is UNC a top 15 (or even top 25) team right now.
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