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Old 11-12-2012, 04:56 PM   #16
ihatetimthomas
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Default Re: Kevin Martin Thriving on OKC's Bench

Quote:
Originally Posted by KG215
Because, so far, his defense hasn't been "worst in the NBA" bad. He seems engaged on defense and is actually putting out a lot of effort. Is he playing great or even good defense? No, but he hasn't been any worse than Harden tended to be a lot of times. The only difference is that Harden, when he actually put forth the effort, could be a pretty good defender; something I'm not sure Martin is capable of.

Look man, just stop talking about the Thunder until the season is at least 20-30 games old and we have a bigger sample size. You go from saying "OKC is clearly not as good at this point in the season as they were last year at the same point in the season" to making baseless claims that Martin is a much worse defender than Harden. For whatever reason you seem to be quick to jump on the "The Harden trade was a bad one for OKC" bandwagon but you clearly have no idea what you're talking about right now. It may prove true down the line, but right now you're just making baseless claims.

Well, you should probably start doing the same then too about how well you think Martin has been and how you think flipping him for Harden was a wash. Fact remains, we do need to see a larger sample size to say if the Harden deal was bad.

For me I think Harden was so vital last season in taking them to the finals that its hard for me to say Martin, who has not proven anything other than scoring on horrible teams, that he will have the same impact as Harden. Harden faltered in the finals, but he was crucial in their playoff standing and actually getting them to the finals. PLus, Kmart has had one healthy year in the last 7 years. Dont expect him to become healthy and non injury prone all of the sudden.
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Old 11-12-2012, 05:03 PM   #17
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Default Re: Kevin Martin Thriving on OKC's Bench

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Originally Posted by ihatetimthomas
Well, you should probably start doing the same then too about how well you think Martin has been and how you think flipping him for Harden was a wash. Fact remains, we do need to see a larger sample size to say if the Harden deal was bad.

For me I think Harden was so vital last season in taking them to the finals that its hard for me to say Martin, who has not proven anything other than scoring on horrible teams, that he will have the same impact as Harden. Harden faltered in the finals, but he was crucial in their playoff standing and actually getting them to the finals. PLus, Kmart has had one healthy year in the last 7 years. Dont expect him to become healthy and non injury prone all of the sudden.
I haven't really said it's been a "wash." I've said that he's been good in this role, and it's too early to tell. If I have said it's a wash or he's been just as good or Harden in the 6th man role, it wasn't my intention. I'm just starting to get a little annoyed by people assuming we aren't the same or as good anymore without Harden.

I do know that seven games into the season Martin has been every bit the scorer Harden was for OKC in the same role, and the other flaws people said he had haven't really been an issue so far.
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Old 11-12-2012, 05:13 PM   #18
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Default Re: Kevin Martin Thriving on OKC's Bench

Quote:
Originally Posted by ihatetimthomas
Well, you should probably start doing the same then too about how well you think Martin has been and how you think flipping him for Harden was a wash. Fact remains, we do need to see a larger sample size to say if the Harden deal was bad.

For me I think Harden was so vital last season in taking them to the finals that its hard for me to say Martin, who has not proven anything other than scoring on horrible teams, that he will have the same impact as Harden. Harden faltered in the finals, but he was crucial in their playoff standing and actually getting them to the finals. PLus, Kmart has had one healthy year in the last 7 years. Dont expect him to become healthy and non injury prone all of the sudden.


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Old 11-12-2012, 05:13 PM   #19
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Default Re: Kevin Martin Thriving on OKC's Bench

This thread quickly turned from a Kevin Martin appreciation to a 'OKC was stupid to trade Harden thread'. Thanks alot too CF86, we all get you dont feel 'threatened' by the Thunder.

Also, I dont see them re-signing him for anything big, if at all. We would be much better going for Al Jeff or similar low-post kinda guy with our assets/in free agency.
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Old 11-12-2012, 05:22 PM   #20
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Default Re: Kevin Martin Thriving on OKC's Bench

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clippersfan86

Where am I saying that? I haven't said we're just as good or better. I even said in the other Martin thread (last night, don't know where the thread is now) that we may not be as good or he may not be as good. I was just making arguments and telling you why it's stupid to claim we're "clearly not as good this year as we were last year at this same point." But yes, applaud him and completely ignore everything else.

I'm not even saying it's a wash. I'm calling you, Cippersfan86, out because you seem to think that seven games intot he 2012-2013 season OKC is CLEARLY not as good as the 2011-2012 Thunder were seven games into the season. And now you're harping on Martin's defensive deficiencies when, once again, it's too early to tell, and he hasn't even been that bad defensively. He may prove to be a very poor defender once again, but right now he's in a much different role, and the difference between he and Harden in that role is pretty negligible at this point. If you want to say Harden was better, fine, but it's not as cut-and-dry as you seem to be trying to convince yourself...RIGHT NOW. Maybe down the line, yes, but not right now.

Last edited by KG215 : 11-12-2012 at 05:25 PM.
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Old 11-12-2012, 05:23 PM   #21
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Default Re: Kevin Martin Thriving on OKC's Bench

KG215 is the Niko of Thunder fans. Great poster, but becoming way too defensive since a key part of his favorite team left.
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Old 11-12-2012, 05:26 PM   #22
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Default Re: Kevin Martin Thriving on OKC's Bench

Quote:
Originally Posted by PyrrhusX
This thread quickly turned from a Kevin Martin appreciation to a 'OKC was stupid to trade Harden thread'. Thanks alot too CF86, we all get you dont feel 'threatened' by the Thunder.

Also, I dont see them re-signing him for anything big, if at all. We would be much better going for Al Jeff or similar low-post kinda guy with our assets/in free agency.

I'm not saying stupid trade. I think they obviously couldn't afford to cripple themselves with an 80 million dollar contract. That being said people need to stop making threads about Kevin Martin in a "See, told you so!" context. Harden>Martin PERIOD. The only way the Thunder win the trade is if Lamb emerges as a force. Likely Martin will be let go in free agency and if not will command at least 9-10 mill a year which will put OKC in the luxury anyways which they were trying to avoid.
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Old 11-12-2012, 05:27 PM   #23
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Default Re: Kevin Martin Thriving on OKC's Bench

Quote:
Originally Posted by RRR3
KG215 is the Niko of Thunder fans. Great poster, but becoming way too defensive since a key part of his favorite team left.

No, I'm just getting annoyed by people claiming OKC is clearly not as good or the same without Harden. We may not be the same, that's fine, I can live with that. But no one knows right now if we're worse, better, or about the same. The season isn't even 10 games old.

I do know Martin has been great in filling Harden's role so far, and we've got the same record seven games into the season we had seven games into last season, so I'm not really sure why some people seem to think it's pretty clear we're not as good.
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Old 11-12-2012, 05:31 PM   #24
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Default Re: Kevin Martin Thriving on OKC's Bench

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clippersfan86
I'm not saying stupid trade. I think they obviously couldn't afford to cripple themselves with an 80 million dollar contract. That being said people need to stop making threads about Kevin Martin in a "See, told you so!" context.
I agree with this.

Quote:
Likely Martin will be let go in free agency and if not will command at least 9-10 mill a year which will put OKC in the luxury anyways which they were trying to avoid.
And you know this, how? He's 30 years old and on the downswing of his career. He's been to the playoffs once in his career, and that team wasn't anything close to a championship contender. So, who knows, maybe he enjoys this season in OKC, we have another deep playoff run, and he decides to agree to a deal similar to the one Jamal Crawford signed with the Clippers, and go for a ring before he retires.

But yes, you could be right, he may want $9M-$10M a year, which would be a shame. Presti will probably let him walk, and go from there. If that's the case, then we'll clearly not be as good the next season or two until Lamb hopefully develops.
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Old 11-12-2012, 05:36 PM   #25
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Default Re: Kevin Martin Thriving on OKC's Bench

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clippersfan86
I'm not saying stupid trade. I think they obviously couldn't afford to cripple themselves with an 80 million dollar contract. That being said people need to stop making threads about Kevin Martin in a "See, told you so!" context. Harden>Martin PERIOD. The only way the Thunder win the trade is if Lamb emerges as a force. Likely Martin will be let go in free agency and if not will command at least 9-10 mill a year which will put OKC in the luxury anyways which they were trying to avoid.

But most people know and acknowledge Martin < Harden (despite Hardens own small sample size as a primary option), though not as many will acknowledge that Martin is giving us almost as good production, if not equal, off the bench if we were to have Harden instead.
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Old 11-12-2012, 05:40 PM   #26
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Default Re: Kevin Martin Thriving on OKC's Bench

It's nice to see Martin fitting seamlessly into the Thunder squad. Shouldn't be difficult playing with two All-Stars in Westbrook and Durant. He's not a franchise player - kind of like Harden - so he's going to thrive in a role with much less pressure than their was in Houston. He doesn't need to be as good as Harden for OKC to have alot of success.
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Old 11-12-2012, 06:04 PM   #27
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Default Re: Kevin Martin Thriving on OKC's Bench

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Originally Posted by Clippersfan86
Post his defensive rankings . Nobody is shocked that Kevin can score and score efficiently. He's been doing it for years. His issues have always been rebounding, passing and defense which still exist. Harden was the more complete player but nobody said he was a significantly better scorer or anything (at least that I saw).

Martin's problem is he may score 25 but give up 25. Harden by no means was a good defender but he was significantly more capable than Kevin.
Please stfu, you always come across as wanting to prove that your Clippers are actually a shot at making the finals over the Thunder.

If you had actually paid any attention to the Thunders games you would notice that K-Mart has been defending a lot better then he has previous years probably at the same level as Harden.
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Old 11-12-2012, 06:29 PM   #28
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Default Re: Kevin Martin Thriving on OKC's Bench

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Originally Posted by KDthunderup
Please stfu, you always come across as wanting to prove that your Clippers are actually a shot at making the finals over the Thunder.

If you had actually paid any attention to the Thunders games you would notice that K-Mart has been defending a lot better then he has previous years probably at the same level as Harden.

You guys are really a defensive bunch lately aren't you? Bottom line is Harden brings more to the table, nothing to argue son, it's a fact.
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Old 11-12-2012, 06:34 PM   #29
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Default Re: Kevin Martin Thriving on OKC's Bench

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clippersfan86
You guys are really a defensive bunch lately aren't you? Bottom line is Harden brings more to the table, nothing to argue son, it's a fact.
And its a fact that the Clippers aren't passing the 2nd round
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Old 11-12-2012, 06:37 PM   #30
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Default Re: Kevin Martin Thriving on OKC's Bench

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Originally Posted by Clippersfan86
Post his defensive rankings . Nobody is shocked that Kevin can score and score efficiently. He's been doing it for years. His issues have always been rebounding, passing and defense which still exist. Harden was the more complete player but nobody said he was a significantly better scorer or anything (at least that I saw).

Martin's problem is he may score 25 but give up 25. Harden by no means was a good defender but he was significantly more capable than Kevin.

i dont know if im watching different okc games this season.martin is staying with his man and challenging every shot and he got better on help defense.and 1.5 steals in 29 mpg.i dont know whats your point

oh your talking about 3 years ago.

Last edited by LakersForlife : 11-12-2012 at 06:41 PM.
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