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Old 12-28-2012, 06:00 PM   #1
Dolphin
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Default If the Catholic 7 gets who everyone thinks they will and a couple long shots.......

....where would you rank that conference taking into consideration programs have ups and downs (will some of these currently good teams be mainstays?).

This is all hypothetical of course.

You have G'town as a team people expect to be in the tourny every year and usually ranked. Marquette is a step behind, but a usual tourny team. Villanova was on Marquette's level or higher, but has struggled, however they still have a decent recruiting base and a big name coach. Providence and Seton Hall are "here and there" tourny teams. Competitive, but not always tourny worthy. St. John's future was looking a little brighter, but haven't done as well since Lavin came back. Average team. Depaul is shit and always will be. lol

Everyone thinks the two sure bets are Xavier and Buter. Xavier isn't having a great season, but are a perennial tourny team that competes at a high-major level much of the team. Butler seems to be closer to sweet 16 worthy than out of the tourny caliber more years than not now. Not sure that will change with a better league now regardless if Stevens stays as coach.

Creighton, Dayton and St. Louis seem to be safe assumptions by most as well. Creighton has been great of recent years and while you gotta expect drop off here and there, I think they can be a pretty consistent tourny team. Dayton and St. Louis I'd put below teams like Providence and SH, but can make tournies here and there. With this much comp, it could be quite tough on them though.

So that's 12 teams, which is what most people think the conference would at least start with. Are they the clear best non high-major league? Are they better than some high-major leagues?

Going super hypothetical now....there are other teams being bandied about, whether they are part of the original 12 team league or are added to say a 14 team league in the future. Thinking of VCU and Gonzaga as the highest profile teams. If you add one or both of those teams, how good is this league? Note that I understand the logistical problems of adding a team from the state of Washington (although Boise St was gonna enter the Big East). I'm just adding them because people are adding them into the picture.

Some of these teams can't be as good as they are now...some may be...Just fun to think about.
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Old 01-08-2013, 09:57 AM   #2
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Default Re: If the Catholic 7 gets who everyone thinks they will and a couple long shots.......

I really like this idea. In fact, I had this idea and mentioned it the Jim Calhoun thread. I personally wouldn't add Gonzaga, for the logistical reasons you brought up. And a smaller conference where you could play at least some home and homes would look particularly charming these days. The team I would Chase would probably be St. Joe's. I'd like Temple too, but there football program is too big, even as middling as it is. But a conference built on the catholic NY/NJ/Phili schools would be awesome.

One thing I'd add is that I find it hard to believe that MSG is going to sit there and let March roll by without hosting a college basketball tournament after what? three decades of hosting the Big East. They weren't hosting it because it wasn't profitable. Now I've talked to a few people who have told me that it's not impossible that even the ACC wouldn't be opposed to doing it's tournament there even on a bi-anual basis with Charlotte, but I'm guessing they'd get way to much push back from the traditional ACC schools. But realistically, this catholic conference would be a better fit. And adding some of these other schools, like Butler in particular, and letting them get more TV time against these current Big East teams, and then having them play in a major conference tournament in The Garden, could greatly increase their recruiting profile, especially in the northeast, and you may see a bump in some these teams overall.

I really hope this works out.
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:21 PM   #3
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Default Re: If the Catholic 7 gets who everyone thinks they will and a couple long shots.......

I would love for St. Joes and Temple to be in it. I think they would really push for VCU at some point though, which means there wouldn't be enough space left for both....although I would have no qualms replacing a team like St. Louis. lol

Would Villanova allow those two schools to join them (I know they weren't too thrilled with Temple joining the Big East, right?)? How do they benefit from two local schools joining a better conference and thus having more recruiting pull and such? For the sake of competition, I'd love it of course.

And ya, I would imagine programs like Butler could only improve from the added exposure. Kids seeing them when a major conference tourny at MSG is a big deal recruiting wise. Imagine if VCU can keep Smart and eventually join this conference and be able to recruit potential blue chip prospects? That's scary. Another Louisville. lol

Again, I do have to temper any excitement because even with a recruiting jump, very few teams avoid a cycle of tournament appearances and misses. The way I talk about this potential league, you'd think 6-7 teams will be in the tourny every season....when it probably will be more like 4-6 depending on the year.
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Old 01-08-2013, 01:32 PM   #4
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Default Re: If the Catholic 7 gets who everyone thinks they will and a couple long shots.......

Honestly, I wouldn't even mind seeing Penn get sucked up, just to get the whole Phili vibe. I doubt they have the facilities to pull it off though.

I actually thought cherry picking some of the better teams from my beloved MAAC wouldn't be a bad idea, but they too have facility issues. Outside of Sienna and their Pepsi Center, and Fairfield (go FU) and their Harbor Yard Arena, both of which are at least comparable to something like the DnD center in providence. But those teams aren't good enough.
Iona has historically been the best of the teams, but the MAAC is always back and forth with teams.

I like the idea of keeping it small and local. But stretching into the midwest is fine with me.
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Old 01-08-2013, 02:23 PM   #5
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Default Re: If the Catholic 7 gets who everyone thinks they will and a couple long shots.......

Ya, the league just can't become what it aspires to be without Butler, Creighton and possibly VCU down the road. The better the league, the more money that comes in. That's why Gonzaga is being talked about (however serious or lack thereof those talks are). They obviously make tons of sense economically, but I think that would be way too much of a stretch.

Speaking of Gonzaga, does the fact that they aren't a football school mean they will never be considered for the Pac-12 or MWC? I mean they obviously would be welcomed on a pure bball standpoint, but I guess the numbers don't add up? ND is joining the ACC without its football program. I'd love them to join the MWC if the schools there that were gonna leave end up staying now for sure.

I also know other things are taken into consideration such as academic excellence, religious affiliations and such.
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Old 01-08-2013, 02:42 PM   #6
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Default Re: If the Catholic 7 gets who everyone thinks they will and a couple long shots.......

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolphin
Ya, the league just can't become what it aspires to be without Butler, Creighton and possibly VCU down the road. The better the league, the more money that comes in. That's why Gonzaga is being talked about (however serious or lack thereof those talks are). They obviously make tons of sense economically, but I think that would be way too much of a stretch.

Speaking of Gonzaga, does the fact that they aren't a football school mean they will never be considered for the Pac-12 or MWC? I mean they obviously would be welcomed on a pure bball standpoint, but I guess the numbers don't add up? ND is joining the ACC without its football program. I'd love them to join the MWC if the schools there that were gonna leave end up staying now for sure.

I also know other things are taken into consideration such as academic excellence, religious affiliations and such.

Yeah, basically they're looking to put together a conference of the best possible basketball schools in the country that don't play BCS football. And if they're gonna do that, it doesn't make a ton of sense for Gonzaga to be left out.
I also believe it would've made more sense for ND to hang with them. If they refuse to affiliate their football program to a conference, then they're the same as a non-football school. And their history in the Big East, Catholic background, academic standing (although the ACC is a very strong conference academically as well), would make them a better fit as an 8th team in this conference than in the ACC. Frankly it would make more sense for the ACC rather than screwing up their conference not being the same from one sport to another, which is part of how the Big East got into this mess to begin with.

And you're right, the conference has to be really strong in order to maintain a television relationship with ESPN. And I'm not sure they can with or without VCU and the like. But particularly Gonzaga and Butler I think would be the biggest ones.
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