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Old 11-17-2012, 01:04 PM   #91
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Default Re: Israel's Assassination of Hamas Chief (Video) Raises Tensions on Both Sides of Gaza

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Originally Posted by eliteballer
Stop shooting rockets and stop building on land that supposed to be negotiated. Why can't the dopes on either side do that?

Religion????
All 3 major religions in the regions are using their beliefs to justify what is currently going on.
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Old 11-17-2012, 01:08 PM   #92
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Default Re: Israel's Assassination of Hamas Chief (Video) Raises Tensions on Both Sides of Gaza

They are all supposed to be "people of the book". It's not like churchgoers vs a pagan worshipping cult.

Issues shouldn't be that hard to work out.
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Old 11-17-2012, 01:21 PM   #93
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Default Re: Israel's Assassination of Hamas Chief (Video) Raises Tensions on Both Sides of Gaza

Pretty misleading for Steve/Jeff to post that video and for Nick Young to concur that Palestinians are somehow faking injuries and such. The truth is that many women and children are being killed.

But let me take a step back and look at this from a realist perspective. The root source of this problem for me is Hamas. Look, Israel is certainly not worrying about bombing innocent people or taking more land,etc. Hamas are the ones that are ruining this for the Palestinians. It really feels like this whole cycle comes about every few years.

What has to happen to EVER reach peace in this conflict is a stable and moderate Palestinian government. The people need to get away from terrorist propaganda. They need to get away from the dream of destroying Israel--it's only destroying themselves. The facts of the matter are that Israel holds all the cards. They have the backing of every important country and has all the military and economic capabilities. Is rocketing them going to solve anything? ever? **** no.

There has to be some sort of revolution within Gaza, a democratic resurgence led by the intellectuals and moderates of the region. This all sounds like a pipe dream but it has to happen. If there is a stable government in place ready to negotiate and put away all fighting...then Israel would have no more excuses for advancing on land or for not reaching an agreement themselves.

Until then, this status quo will continue on and on. Very sad, but reality. It's up to the Palestinian people to decide what they really want.
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Old 11-17-2012, 01:32 PM   #94
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Default Re: Israel's Assassination of Hamas Chief (Video) Raises Tensions on Both Sides of Gaza

Op-Ed from the NYT.. a human perspective from inside Gaza.

Quote:
I don’t know how the story ends.

What I know is that this all started on a quiet day with my friends, as we sat down to watch the initial movie in a series that was supposed to be part of a “Nordic Film Festival” — the first of its kind in Gaza. The main character’s name was Sebbe, a Swedish boy five years my junior.

But halfway in, just as Sebbe’s story began to arc, the reel stopped, just as surely as the world around me.

A festival organizer interrupted the film and relayed the news: The Israelis, we were told, had just assassinated someone. There was already word of retaliatory rockets fired from Gaza. Things were going to get bad quickly, and we had better get home, where it would be safer.

But it hasn’t been. In the last 48 hours, my mother and I have kept vigil by my siblings’ side — my twin, an adolescent brother and a sister within earshot of her high school valediction. We sit together, my mother and I, in an inner room without a view, watching the furrowed brows of my brother and two sisters straining to sleep.

And all the while, we hear bombs. Bombs that bear autumn’s scent and winter’s chill. Bombs that batter. Bombs that kill. I still have waking nightmares of the bombs that tore through our sky nearly four years ago, when a classmate, Maha, lost her mother in an Israeli strike. And a childhood friend, Hanan, who saw her mother’s leg severed under the rubble from another strike.

As I contemplate my own mother’s tired eyes, I wonder: What happens to those who lose a child? And will I ever see my own? So far, in the war that began on Wednesday, only a handful of children and teenagers have died. Hiba was 19, Omar a month shy of his first year on the planet. (Omar’s picture, I have since seen, made the rounds on Facebook. But he himself was wound in white and faceless, a corpse cradled by his wailing father.) As for Ranana, she made it to 5 before something very big and very loud fell from the sky, ending her time here. I don’t know her either. But then again, I do.

Gaza, after all, is a very small place. Pick a point, any point, along its 25-mile coastline, and you’re seven or so miles — never more — from the other side. The other side is where my grandparents were born, in a village that has since become someone else’s country, off limits to me. You call it Israel. I call it the place where the bombs come from. One thundered to earth just now, as I was writing this.

I hear there are children there — like Hiba, Omar, Ranana — who might appreciate the simple textures of a day spent outside, of a sky that beckons and does not bellow. I wonder: would these children trade places with me now? No, I would not wish that upon them. Better yet, let us take a trip together, to some other shore, where there is not a single pockmark — not one.

But that is the stuff of movies. At the film festival, I learned that Sebbe, the 15-year-old protagonist of the movie whose end I may never see, lived “in a worn-down concrete suburb.”

I can relate. Worn-down concrete is everywhere in Gaza. Except here, the rebar so often protrudes, like pipe cleaners or a broken femur.

Each day here lays bare the ugliness of war, and for my siblings and me, each scene of our movie starts the same: we are trapped. And that is where our story begins and ends.

Lara Aburamadan is a freelance photographer and a student of English language and translation.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/17/op...f=opinion&_r=0
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Old 11-17-2012, 03:08 PM   #95
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Default Re: Israel's Assassination of Hamas Chief (Video) Raises Tensions on Both Sides of Gaza

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaininThrees
Op-Ed from the NYT.. a human perspective from inside Gaza.



http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/17/op...f=opinion&_r=0


then leave to another country? i'm sure there would be a lot of options there and many people willing to help them move.

Israel is doomed to always live in this state since theres too many muslims that hate them. nobody is going to reason with them.
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Old 11-17-2012, 07:00 PM   #96
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Default Re: Israel's Assassination of Hamas Chief (Video) Raises Tensions on Both Sides of Gaza

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Originally Posted by Godzuki
then leave to another country? i'm sure there would be a lot of options there and many people willing to help them move.

Israel is doomed to always live in this state since theres too many muslims that hate them. nobody is going to reason with them.

Because nobody wants them, not even other Arabs. It's actually quite hilarious. You've got the Egyptian PM visiting Palestine and denouncing Israeli treatment of Palestinians. Meanwhile Egypt shares a border with Gaza and could take them in any time they wanted. And guess what they do? They guard that shit with tanks.

Google "Black September". Jordan let a whole shit load of Palestinians into their country shortly after the formation of Israel. The Palestinians proceeded to try to take over the country by force. The Jordanians ended up killing hundreds of thousands of them.

The Arab world supports Palestine when it's convenient for them and when it serves their needs, IE whenever they can take shots at Israel. The rest of the time they want nothing to do with them.
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Old 11-17-2012, 09:49 PM   #97
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Default Re: Israel's Assassination of Hamas Chief (Video) Raises Tensions on Both Sides of Gaza

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Originally Posted by bmulls
Because nobody wants them, not even other Arabs. It's actually quite hilarious. You've got the Egyptian PM visiting Palestine and denouncing Israeli treatment of Palestinians. Meanwhile Egypt shares a border with Gaza and could take them in any time they wanted. And guess what they do? They guard that shit with tanks.

Google "Black September". Jordan let a whole shit load of Palestinians into their country shortly after the formation of Israel. The Palestinians proceeded to try to take over the country by force. The Jordanians ended up killing hundreds of thousands of them.

The Arab world supports Palestine when it's convenient for them and when it serves their needs, IE whenever they can take shots at Israel. The rest of the time they want nothing to do with them.
lol
Quote:
The fighting between the Arab states and Israel was halted with the UN-mediated 1949 Armistice Agreements, but the remaining Palestinian territories came under the control of Egypt and Trans-Jordan. In 1949, Transjordan officially changed its name to Jordan; in 1950, it annexed the West Bank of the Jordan River, and brought Palestinian representation into the government.
Jordan was born when israel was born, both on previously Palestinian territories so explain me again the "Jordan let a whole shit load of Palestinians into their country shortly after the formation of Israel", when Israel was formed there was no Jordan!
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Old 11-17-2012, 10:04 PM   #98
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Default Re: Israel's Assassination of Hamas Chief (Video) Raises Tensions on Both Sides of Gaza

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Originally Posted by Blue&Orange
lol

Jordan was born when israel was born, both on previously Palestinian territories so explain me again the "Jordan let a whole shit load of Palestinians into their country shortly after the formation of Israel", when Israel was formed there was no Jordan!

#1, Jordan (and Palestine and Israel) were British territories prior to WWI. Transjordan was formed after WWI, Israel was formed after WWII. So you're wrong.

#2, what is the point of your post? To nitpick details? GTFO terrorist sympathizer
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Old 11-18-2012, 11:44 AM   #99
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Default Re: Israel's Assassination of Hamas Chief (Video) Raises Tensions on Both Sides of Gaza

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmulls
Because nobody wants them, not even other Arabs. It's actually quite hilarious. You've got the Egyptian PM visiting Palestine and denouncing Israeli treatment of Palestinians. Meanwhile Egypt shares a border with Gaza and could take them in any time they wanted. And guess what they do? They guard that shit with tanks.

Google "Black September". Jordan let a whole shit load of Palestinians into their country shortly after the formation of Israel. The Palestinians proceeded to try to take over the country by force. The Jordanians ended up killing hundreds of thousands of them.

The Arab world supports Palestine when it's convenient for them and when it serves their needs, IE whenever they can take shots at Israel. The rest of the time they want nothing to do with them.
So truthful. Anyone who actually talked to any arabs or egpytians would know that they consider Palestinians to be trash, basically in an Arab's mind, Palestinians are only above Israelis.

In other words they hate the Palestinians and want absolutely nothing to do with them. The Egyptian border is right there, if Egypt cared to much they would take in Palestinian refugees or send in aid, or atleast open the border so Palestinians would have a chance to work in Egypt. They don't, because they hate Palestinians and consider them to be human trash.

I don't know enough about inter-arab islamic politics and their history to know why the other arabs all hate palestine so much, all I know is that they do. It's similar to how the British used to view the Irish in victorian times.

But suddenly, when Israel attacks a terrorist, the whole muslim world unites in favor of their "Muslim brothers in Palestine". Shameless
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Old 11-18-2012, 12:26 PM   #100
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Default Re: Israel's Assassination of Hamas Chief (Video) Raises Tensions on Both Sides of Gaza

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Originally Posted by Nick Young
So truthful.
Anyone who actually talked to any arabs or egpytians would know that they consider Palestinians to be trash, basically in an Arab's mind, Palestinians are only above Israelis.

In other words they hate the Palestinians and want absolutely nothing to do with them. The Egyptian border is right there, if Egypt cared to much they would take in Palestinian refugees or send in aid, or atleast open the border so Palestinians would have a chance to work in Egypt. They don't, because they hate Palestinians and consider them to be human trash.

I don't know enough about inter-arab islamic politics and their history to know why the other arabs all hate palestine so much, all I know is that they do. It's similar to how the British used to view the Irish in victorian times.

But suddenly, when Israel attacks a terrorist, the whole muslim world unites in favor of their "Muslim brothers in Palestine". Shameless

I can say with certainty that this statement if overall false. I lived in the middle east for 6 years, met Arabs from many countries and still have friends from there now.

As for the overall issue of just taking Palestinians in..the principle is that they want to keep their land...so displacing them as refugees doesn't solve that. It takes the problem from one place and puts it somewhere else.

Ultimately, the Palestinian people need a stable and moderate government. They need to come to the realization that Israel isn't going anywhere and no amounts of rockets will ever defeat them. Swallow that and you can move on to negotiations, which also give Israel no excuses for gaining more lands and such.

These conflicts are far more complicated than most in this thread, in the media, or in the government either can understand or fail to voice.
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Old 11-18-2012, 12:34 PM   #101
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Default Re: Israel's Assassination of Hamas Chief (Video) Raises Tensions on Both Sides of Gaza

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Originally Posted by D-Rose
I can say with certainty that this statement if overall false. I lived in the middle east for 6 years, met Arabs from many countries and still have friends from there now.

As for the overall issue of just taking Palestinians in..the principle is that they want to keep their land...so displacing them as refugees doesn't solve that. It takes the problem from one place and puts it somewhere else.

Ultimately, the Palestinian people need a stable and moderate government. They need to come to the realization that Israel isn't going anywhere and no amounts of rockets will ever defeat them. Swallow that and you can move on to negotiations, which also give Israel no excuses for gaining more lands and such.

These conflicts are far more complicated than most in this thread, in the media, or in the government either can understand or fail to voice.
Do you talk to the real people or just the extremely wealthy western educated ones?
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Old 11-18-2012, 12:52 PM   #102
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Default Re: Israel's Assassination of Hamas Chief (Video) Raises Tensions on Both Sides of Gaza

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Originally Posted by Nick Young
Do you talk to the real people or just the extremely wealthy western educated ones?
Yes, very real people. Including Palestinian ex-pats.
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Old 11-18-2012, 01:02 PM   #103
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Default Re: Israel's Assassination of Hamas Chief (Video) Raises Tensions on Both Sides of Gaza

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The Egyptian border is right there, if Egypt cared to much they would take in Palestinian refugees or send in aid, or atleast open the border so Palestinians would have a chance to work in Egypt. They don't, because they hate Palestinians and consider them to be human trash

This statement shows a complete lack of knowledge on social, political, or economic issues.

NO country in the world is going to be eager to take in hundreds of thousands(or millions) of refugees because of the difficulties in finding them jobs, housing, food, integrating them into society etc. There examples all over the world. Do you even know how bad the economy and unemployment rate(especially among youth) is in Egypt already?

If you're THAT ignorant on geopolitical issues you shouldnt even be participating in the conversation.

Last edited by eliteballer : 11-18-2012 at 01:05 PM.
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Old 11-18-2012, 01:07 PM   #104
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Default Re: Israel's Assassination of Hamas Chief (Video) Raises Tensions on Both Sides of Gaza

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Rose
I can say with certainty that this statement if overall false. I lived in the middle east for 6 years, met Arabs from many countries and still have friends from there now.

As for the overall issue of just taking Palestinians in..the principle is that they want to keep their land...so displacing them as refugees doesn't solve that. It takes the problem from one place and puts it somewhere else.

Ultimately, the Palestinian people need a stable and moderate government. They need to come to the realization that Israel isn't going anywhere and no amounts of rockets will ever defeat them. Swallow that and you can move on to negotiations, which also give Israel no excuses for gaining more lands and such.

These conflicts are far more complicated than most in this thread, in the media, or in the government either can understand or fail to voice.

if they want to keep their land and stay where they're being sieged, then they need to stop playing the sympathy card. people always bring up how many Palestinian women and children have died when they don't even address who is at fault for those killings which is the basis for those deaths in the first place. basically you can throw a rock at a hornets nest and they're going to sting somebody. a reasonable person would then question why that somebody threw the rock in the first place and blame that person. talking about how many people have died and are getting hurt is pointless to the solution.

theres a difference between other countries allowing them in VS them being forced to stay there because nobody else will take them in. thats not a choice. if they don't have a choice then i can't blame them. but if they do, then i have a lot less sympathy for people who want to stay in a war zone when bad things happen to them.

and if Egypt refuses to take any of them in then thats messed up. basically they're forcing Palestinians to be the human shields towards their agenda. altho i don't really get why other countries won't, even non muslim ones. logistics would be a mess but if everyone around the world cared that much reallocating 4 million people is probably possible over time.
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Old 11-18-2012, 01:13 PM   #105
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Default Re: Israel's Assassination of Hamas Chief (Video) Raises Tensions on Both Sides of Gaza

Nick Young is actually right on the money stating that the other Islamic states want nothing to do with Palestinians.


He already pointed out Black September, when the Palestinians attempted a coup in Jordan which resulted in a massacring of Palestinians far beyond anything Israel has done.

Lebanon actually has a bunch of Palestinian refugees from earlier conflicts. They have been there for decades and are still denied any form of citizenship or legitimate status. Same story essentially in Syria, although with Syria's current status it's become more complicated.

Egypt is known to far more strongly protect their border with Gaza than their border with Israel for instance.
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