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Old 11-17-2012, 06:07 AM   #376
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Default Re: New York Knicks (6-0) vs. Memphis Grizzlies (6-1), 9:30 PM EST, ESPN

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Originally Posted by Clutch
Best game I've watched this season is probably Spurs-Thunder game where Parker hit a game winner.
that was a good one too.
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Old 11-17-2012, 06:55 AM   #377
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Default Re: New York Knicks (6-0) vs. Memphis Grizzlies (6-1), 9:30 PM EST, ESPN

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Originally Posted by Y2Gezee
That was a fun game to watch seriously.

I think Woodson's taking a lot of flak here that's sorta undeserved. Only thing I'd have liked to see would've been the Knicks running more in transition to exploit the speed advantages of Melo and even Tyson over the Grizzlies.

I don't know what's going on with Camby, and why he hasn't seen the court in these 2 games (people thought he was getting saved for). But I don't think the size advantage over Melo was as big an issue as people make it out to be.

Melo did guard Gasol for the most part. The only time he was really man handled was off of a transition post up where he pinned Melo under the basket and turned for a shot. Other than that, I'd say Melo forced him away a lot. Gasol got a basket by man handling Tyson for an offensive board putback, scored a couple times on Sheed and then Tyson in the first half, had a long range jumper vs no one. Gasol then had a 12pt 3rd period, a period where Melo was out from the 9+ minute mark due to a couple BS fouls. And that's where the game was lost.

the Knicks offense looked lost in the 3rd period without Carmelo during that run. And without Carmelo, there's nothing to truly initiate the offense from except for Felton Pick and rolls with chandler. Which is exactly why they need Amare Stoudemire. There is no true second option on this team without Amare., as JR and Felton are 3rd options at best. Where as Amare is even a high quality 1st option that would've fit right into this game where they needed size.

But if there was no foul trouble in regards to Melo, I think the Knicks would've been right in that game with a chance to win it in the 4th. He had a pretty good 1st half, and had the biggest mismatches in the game to exploit when they switched the bigs onto him.

Overall though, the Grizzlies ended up out rebounding the Knicks by 1, and 2 more offensive boards. And IMO the person that was manhandled the most was Tyson Chandler. But it was a hard fought game, where an early frustrating 3rd quarter took the Knicks out.
I appreciate this perspective, and would really like to agree, but I just think that Woodson didn't do nearly enough, scheme and rotation-wise, to counteract what Hollns was doing.

More than just getting needless fouls, Melo was completely thrown off by having to guard a 5. He shouldn't have had to do that. That's something where a coach looks at the situation and should say, "Ok, we have to try something else".

I also think that JR spent way too much time at the point. It obviously would have helped the Knicks' offensive flow to have the ball more in Ray's, or Kidd's, hands. Also, as you said,, Tyson has to play better.

I love the fight and competitiveness the Knicks showed, though. I mean, the Grizz could end up winning the West, and in my view the Knicks are the second best team in the East. So, it was a potential Finals matchup that lived up to the hype.

I just wish the refs hadn't screwed up so badly. A tight game down the stretch would have been awesome.
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Old 11-17-2012, 08:06 AM   #378
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Default Re: New York Knicks (6-0) vs. Memphis Grizzlies (6-1), 9:30 PM EST, ESPN

I expected people to be talking about the game when I woke up, instead people are bitching about officiating?

You guys played small ball throughout most of the game against the team that's the most physical inside, I could of told you who was gonna get the majority of the foul calls before the game started.
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Old 11-17-2012, 09:55 AM   #379
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Default Re: New York Knicks (6-0) vs. Memphis Grizzlies (6-1), 9:30 PM EST, ESPN

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Originally Posted by Yung D-Will
I expected people to be talking about the game when I woke up, instead people are bitching about officiating?

You guys played small ball throughout most of the game against the team that's the most physical inside, I could of told you who was gonna get the majority of the foul calls before the game started.
No one wants to follow up a great game by complaining about the officiating, but when its bad, its just bad. The refs were definitely a factor, and when that happens, it will be discussed.

Its agreed that Woodson should have come out with a different game plan and gone bigger, but the fact remains that especially in the 3rd quarter, the officiating was horrible. It was easy to see.

Maybe Memphis still wins the game without the bad calls -- right now, they're the best team in the league -- but it would have been great to see what would have developed had the Knicks not been hampered by the refs.
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Old 11-17-2012, 09:59 AM   #380
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Default Re: New York Knicks (6-0) vs. Memphis Grizzlies (6-1), 9:30 PM EST, ESPN

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Originally Posted by Shepseskaf
No one wants to follow up a great game by complaining about the officiating, but when its bad, its just bad. The refs were definitely a factor, and when that happens, it will be discussed.

Its agreed that Woodson should have come out with a different game plan and gone bigger, but the fact remains that especially in the 3rd quarter, the officiating was horrible. It was easy to see.

Maybe Memphis still wins the game without the bad calls -- right now, they're the best team in the league -- but it would have been great to see what would have developed had the Knicks not been hampered by the refs.
I completely agree with this. Nobody said the Knicks would surely win the game if the refs weren't bad.
We just said it would have been a close game and certainly one of the best games of the season.
Woodson made a mistake by going small but even with that and a horrible officiating we only lost by 10.

Whoever would win if the officiating was different one thing is sure - we would have watched a great game.
First half was excellent and then refs decided to take over in the 3rd quarter and destroyed what could have been the best game of the season so far.

Grizzlies played very well and nobody discredits them. We're just saying things MIGHT have gone different if the refs didn't decide to take the game into their own hands.

Last edited by Clutch : 11-17-2012 at 10:02 AM.
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Old 11-17-2012, 11:07 AM   #381
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Default Re: New York Knicks (6-0) vs. Memphis Grizzlies (6-1), 9:30 PM EST, ESPN

The loss came down to 3 things, in importance:

1. Grizzlies played well. Really good team, executes well, and just BIG and athletic wings.....yeesh, they are tough.

2. Woodson went unncessarily small. I think it DID make a difference. Going small can work against 90% of the teams, but not Grizzlies. Too big and dominant and talented inside. Let Kurt Thomas bang against Randolph/Gasol and let Melo go after Gay. I would have let Brewer come off bench. Against this team, you need 2 out of 3 bigs on floor at all time (Tyson, Kurt, Sheed).

3. Refs definitely gave Grizzlies some home cooking.....and Knicks did not handle it well. Meltdown mode. Woodson should have called some timeouts to refocus his team and stop that ridiculous run. Lost the whole game in 3rd quarter.

Anyway, congrats to Grizz. Can't win em all. If gonna lose a game, no shame in losing this one.
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Old 11-17-2012, 02:58 PM   #382
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Default Re: New York Knicks (6-0) vs. Memphis Grizzlies (6-1), 9:30 PM EST, ESPN

When you react like the knicks did after fouls, you piss off the refs. You keep fouling and whining afterwards, then the refs are going to keep calling it and more. Its not as if the refs came in with an agenda that they were going to give calls to the home team. Smith had a dirty elbow, which probably was the catalyst
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Old 11-17-2012, 03:03 PM   #383
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Default Re: New York Knicks (6-0) vs. Memphis Grizzlies (6-1), 9:30 PM EST, ESPN

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Originally Posted by ncrizzle
Smith had a dirty elbow, which probably was the catalyst

It was clearly NOT an elbow, but a shove. If it was an elbow, he would have been ejected after replay. He was not.

And I guarantee no suspension on that play.
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Old 11-17-2012, 03:09 PM   #384
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Default Re: New York Knicks (6-0) vs. Memphis Grizzlies (6-1), 9:30 PM EST, ESPN

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Originally Posted by ncrizzle
When you react like the knicks did after fouls, you piss off the refs. You keep fouling and whining afterwards, then the refs are going to keep calling it and more. Its not as if the refs came in with an agenda that they were going to give calls to the home team. Smith had a dirty elbow, which probably was the catalyst
So, what you're saying is that once some players get on the officials' bad side, then the refs will deliberately and continuously act in a biased way towards the team in question?

Does that make any real sense to you?

Referees are supposed to be "professionals" who remain above the emotional outbursts that come naturally during a game.

According to the definition, a referee is an "official who is expected to ensure fair play".

If that isn't happening, then there's obviously a huge problem -- which unfortunately there has been during most of Dictator Stern's tenure.
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Old 11-18-2012, 05:39 AM   #385
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Default Re: New York Knicks (6-0) vs. Memphis Grizzlies (6-1), 9:30 PM EST, ESPN

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shepseskaf
No one wants to follow up a great game by complaining about the officiating, but when its bad, its just bad. The refs were definitely a factor, and when that happens, it will be discussed.

Its agreed that Woodson should have come out with a different game plan and gone bigger, but the fact remains that especially in the 3rd quarter, the officiating was horrible. It was easy to see.

Maybe Memphis still wins the game without the bad calls -- right now, they're the best team in the league -- but it would have been great to see what would have developed had the Knicks not been hampered by the refs.

Very well put. I don't remember a game where the refs more clearly and decisively influenced a game. They should demoted for a time. As should Tyson 0 rebounds Chandler.
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