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Old 11-16-2012, 06:35 PM   #16
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Default Re: Rudy Gay vs. Luol Deng

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Originally Posted by tikay0
Ball movement doesn't work in the playoffs. Not against the Heat, and not with our personnel. You need 2 or more shot creators in the playoffs.

We should have kept Korver and Watson. Our spacing is going to be HORRIBLE, once Rose comes back. Hopefully his 3 is crazy efficient, because we're definitely going to need it.



You have an offseason to fix it. I don't think this is the year for you guys, even when Rose does come back.


But ball movement always works lol. But I'm good with a trade for Gay.
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:10 PM   #17
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Default Re: Rudy Gay vs. Luol Deng

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Originally Posted by Whoah10115
You have an offseason to fix it. I don't think this is the year for you guys, even when Rose does come back.


But ball movement always works lol. But I'm good with a trade for Gay.

Yes, ball movement works against other playoff teams, but if we want to win a chip, we have to go through Miami. Ball movement doesn't work in the 4th quarter, because the balls ends up going right back to Rose.

Besides, we lack the shooters for it to work.

We're stuck with the same team next year as well.

Come to think of it, I can't think a single team that won a championship, solely based on ball movement. The Mavericks are the closest thing, but even then, they had 3-4 that could create their own shot, or dribble the ball well enough to not get stuck in a trap, leading to a TO.

Maybe Sacramento, if they didn't get jobbed by the refs that year, but even then, they had C-Webb and Mike Bibby.

Last edited by tikay0 : 11-16-2012 at 07:18 PM.
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:23 PM   #18
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Default Re: Rudy Gay vs. Luol Deng

Wtf? Ball movement works better than not moving the ball 100 percent of the time. Big reason for Miami's success is how well they swing the ball on the perimeter and how willing of passers Lebron and Wade are. No team is better at sharing the ball effectively outside of the Spurs.
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:26 PM   #19
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Default Re: Rudy Gay vs. Luol Deng

Deng, I really don't know how or why Gay got so overrated. The guy is a scorer and nothing more and it is not like he is Kevin Durant that aspect. He is a 20 ppg scorer that is a ball-stopper and that's it, nothing more, nothing less.
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:27 PM   #20
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Default Re: Rudy Gay vs. Luol Deng

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Originally Posted by StateOfMind12
Deng, I really don't know how or why Gay got so overrated. The guy is a scorer and nothing more and it is not like he is Kevin Durant that aspect. He is a 20 ppg scorer that is a ball-stopper and that's it, nothing more, nothing less.
Deng is a 20 ppg at best who can't create.

Deng is overrated among Bulls fans, and the contract he got after the 2007 playoffs was ridiculous.
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:30 PM   #21
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Default Re: Rudy Gay vs. Luol Deng

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Originally Posted by Clippersfan86
Wtf? Ball movement works better than not moving the ball 100 percent of the time. Big reason for Miami's success is how well they swing the ball on the perimeter and how willing of passers Lebron and Wade are. No team is better at sharing the ball effectively outside of the Spurs.

SMH. Yes, the physical movement of the ball is a must in any system. BUT, if you want to win rings, you need more than 1 shot creator/ball handler/star.

If you have an elite big man, you only really need 1 other ball handler/shot creator/star.

Flew right over your head didn't it?

Last edited by tikay0 : 11-16-2012 at 07:32 PM.
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:30 PM   #22
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Default Re: Rudy Gay vs. Luol Deng

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Originally Posted by Money 23
Deng is a 20 ppg at best who can't create.

Deng is overrated among Bulls fans, and the contract he got after the 2007 playoffs was ridiculous.
Sure, but Deng is a portable player that keeps the ball-movement going and is a terrific defender. Gay on the other hand does literally nothing except score, can't defend, stops ball-movement, can't pass, etc. what am I suppose to be impressed about his game? His "potential"?

I agree with the 2007 part. I thought he was going to be the Bulls franchise player and a possible superstar after the 2007 playoffs but injuries got to him and he never got much better.
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:31 PM   #23
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Default Re: Rudy Gay vs. Luol Deng

gay is a 2nd round virgin. the grizz actually took a step back in the playoffs with him.

but he is obviously more talented a scorer, dunno how good he is for chemistry. might be a good fit with the bulls though. rose + gay duo would be killer. being knicks fan, keep the talent west. deng is a good defender but it seems like he always gets lit up by the superstars (lebron, durant, melo) but than again, who doesn't?
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:33 PM   #24
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Default Re: Rudy Gay vs. Luol Deng

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Originally Posted by Whoah10115
Deng is still the better player. Gay may have more upside, but he hasn't put it together and been better than Deng yet.


Deng is also a pretty talented guy. He does a bit of everything. He can shoot, is a solid scorer and knows how to work with his offense. He's not Pippen, but he does a lot of little things, is a very good rebounder and one of the best defenders in the league.


Gay is a scorer. He's really a 2guard who has no handles. He's a good shooter from midrange and is has athleticism. But his game is not very refined and, while he has some skills, I never have the impression that he's worked on anything. And in this offense, there's no doubt that he isn't as valuable as Deng.


Come to think of it, would be a good trade...assuming Gay could play with Rose when Rose comes back...so maybe not.

Evan Turner...

Nah, but Deng is very overrated. He's a great guy in his role, but comparing him to an all-star in Gay is laughable. You can say Deng was an all-star, too, but lol at that. Donuts.

Deng is a great glue guy. He's never gonna be better than that, though. There are many players who you could wonder if they were better than Deng, like Caron Butler or Lamar Odom. Or even Tayshaun Prince. Is he better than AK?

I think people have a hard time taking a player out of their role on their team and imagining them in a new situation, surrounded by new players to compare them. Deng really broke out against Miami, people thought he was gonna become an all-star, but he didn't. He's just a role player who is great at what he does.

Rudy Gay is considerably better. I don't care what stats look like because they are a product of two totally different situations.

-Smak
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:35 PM   #25
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Default Re: Rudy Gay vs. Luol Deng

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Originally Posted by ILLsmak
Evan Turner...

Nah, but Deng is very overrated. He's a great guy in his role, but comparing him to an all-star in Gay is laughable. You can say Deng was an all-star, too, but lol at that. Donuts.

Deng is a great glue guy. He's never gonna be better than that, though. There are many players who you could wonder if they were better than Deng, like Caron Butler or Lamar Odom. Or even Tayshaun Prince. Is he better than AK?

I think people have a hard time taking a player out of their role on their team and imagining them in a new situation, surrounded by new players to compare them. Deng really broke out against Miami, people thought he was gonna become an all-star, but he didn't. He's just a role player who is great at what he does.

Rudy Gay is considerably better. I don't care what stats look like because they are a product of two totally different situations.

-Smak

Don't mislead anyone. He broke out against the 06'-07' Heat. I was so amped for Deng the next year, then he gets hurt, and hasn't gotten much better ever since.
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:37 PM   #26
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Default Re: Rudy Gay vs. Luol Deng

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Originally Posted by StateOfMind12
Sure, but Deng is a portable player that keeps the ball-movement going and is a terrific defender. Gay on the other hand does literally nothing except score, can't defend, stops ball-movement, can't pass, etc. what am I suppose to be impressed about his game? His "potential"?

I agree with the 2007 part. I thought he was going to be the Bulls franchise player and a possible superstar after the 2007 playoffs but injuries got to him and he never got much better.

We need a guy like that. Besides, your exaggerating the hell out of his deficiencies. Your talking out of your ass pretty much.

Last edited by tikay0 : 11-16-2012 at 07:40 PM.
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:39 PM   #27
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Default Re: Rudy Gay vs. Luol Deng

Deng is also a player that bricks more than he makes, every time he takes a wide open 3 I hold my breath. He shoots at like 40-41%, which is horrible for a small forward with that size and length. Bigger you are, better your percentages should be, but Deng is too stupid and lacks the skill to utilize his gifts or at least learn a move or two. His ball handling sucks, his shooting is extremely inconsistent, he gets nice stats in the regular season but during playoffs he just gets exposed. He is not a reliable 3rd option, especially not in this era of super teams with 2-3 allstars that can handle the rock.

His defense is overrated as well, especially on Lebron/Carmelo. He just backs off and dares them to take jumpers without actually playing physical defense, he is a statue. Problem is those guys just relax and splash jumpers in his face without any urgency. Him and Boozer are the worst 2nd/3rd options for a contender, Bulls need to seriously rethink their strategy and rebuild. As is, Rose will get tired of being bounced by the Heat and leave for a team who can build a real roster around him.
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:41 PM   #28
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Default Re: Rudy Gay vs. Luol Deng

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Originally Posted by tikay0
Don't mislead anyone. He broke out against the 06'-07' Heat. I was so amped for Deng the next year, then he gets hurt, and hasn't gotten much better ever since.

Yeah, I thought that was common knowledge.

And yea I agree. No hate for Deng, though, he's the type of player I like, a guy who goes hard and plays D, but people suck his dick ridiculously.

-Smak
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:45 PM   #29
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Default Re: Rudy Gay vs. Luol Deng

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Originally Posted by ILLsmak
Yeah, I thought that was common knowledge.

And yea I agree. No hate for Deng, though, he's the type of player I like, a guy who goes hard and plays D, but people suck his dick ridiculously.

-Smak

Dude. Go to a Bulls message board. Deng can do no wrong to them, except right after the playoffs. Then people totally forget about it, and slurp some more. Then he'll have a bad month, and back to wanting to trade him. Then he'll have a good week, "Deng is untouchable!". Make up your minds Bull's fans!

Such short term memories when it comes to the 10'-11' ECF against the Heat.
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Old 11-16-2012, 08:12 PM   #30
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Default Re: Rudy Gay vs. Luol Deng

I think some opinions here are going overboard, on both sides.


Rudy Gay is not a bad defender and he's a good player. He needs to be in a system but he also needs to work on his game, which he clearly does not.



I didn't know Luol Deng was a 41% shooter. I thought he shot .465 for his career and that last year was a low, while this year he's shooting .496. I also see he shoots .335 for his career from 3. Let's not kill him.


He's the sort of player who would do well in just about any situation. He's not a star, but he's the kind of guy you want on your team. I also can't see he's an overrated defender.
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