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Old 11-16-2012, 06:47 PM   #16
Rubio2Gasol
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Default Re: Are There People That Really Feel Tmac Was Better Than Kobe in 03

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Originally Posted by pauk
Arguably... if Kobe wasnt a better defender i would give it to T-Mac as he was somewhat of a better rebounder and maybe passer aswell...

He was definitely a better passer.
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Old 11-16-2012, 06:48 PM   #17
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Default Re: Are There People That Really Feel Tmac Was Better Than Kobe in 03

I consider them 1A/B from 2002-2004. Moreso in 2003.

Not sure why people think Mac didn't play defense when he was putting up those crazy scoring numbers. The guy's length alone made him tough to score on.
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Old 11-16-2012, 06:48 PM   #18
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Default Re: Are There People That Really Feel Tmac Was Better Than Kobe in 03

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Originally Posted by pauk
Arguably... if Kobe wasnt a better defender i would give it to T-Mac as he was somewhat of a better rebounder and maybe passer aswell...

Tmac was unquestionably, and still is a better passer.
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Old 11-16-2012, 06:49 PM   #19
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Default Re: Are There People That Really Feel Tmac Was Better Than Kobe in 03

Never understood this.


McGrady was not more talented (at least not noticeable). Kobe was the better athlete and more skilled. McGrady was comparable, but he wasn't more talented. Kobe is the better scorer, tho McGrady is maybe a better rebounder (arguable) and a better pure passer. But Kobe is also a better playmaker.


I also don't believe he was a SF. He clearly preferred being a SG, as he's almost 6'10 and doesn't tell the truth about his height lol.


Beyond the mentality, the thing with McGrady is that I feel he's overrated. RRR3 laughed when I said Grant Hill was better, but he was better. McGrady isn't Carmelo, but he didn't elevate people around him. I'm very aware his team sucked, so I don't hold it against him. But people always talk about how he showed up in the playoffs I don't believe that. Grant Hill never got out of the 1st round, but even when he didn't quite play well he elevated the guys around him. I don't think McGrady ever did that.

Last edited by Whoah10115 : 11-16-2012 at 06:51 PM.
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Old 11-16-2012, 06:49 PM   #20
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Default Re: Are There People That Really Feel Tmac Was Better Than Kobe in 03

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Originally Posted by fsvr54
Tmac was unquestionably, and still is a better passer.
But Kobe is the GOAT PG! /Kennethgriffin
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Old 11-16-2012, 06:50 PM   #21
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Default Re: Are There People That Really Feel Tmac Was Better Than Kobe in 03

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Originally Posted by Whoah10115
Never understood this.


McGrady was not more talented. Kobe was the better athlete and more skilled. McGrady was comparable, but he wasn't more talented.


I also don't believe he was a SF. He clearly preferred being a SG, as he's almost 6'10 and doesn't tell the truth about his height lol.


Beyond the mentality, the think with McGrady is that I feel he's overrated. RRR3 laughed when I said Grant Hill was better, but he was better. McGrady isn't Carmelo, but he didn't elevate people around him. I'm very aware his team sucked, so I don't hold it against him. But people always talk about how he showed up in the playoffs and I don't believe that. Grant Hill never got out of the 1st round, but even when he didn't quite play well he elevated the guys around him. I don't think McGrady ever did that.




nikka, you said you'd trade Carmelo for Paul Pierce TODAY. Excuse me if I laugh.

Last edited by RRR3 : 11-16-2012 at 06:52 PM.
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Old 11-16-2012, 06:50 PM   #22
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Default Re: Are There People That Really Feel Tmac Was Better Than Kobe in 03

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A decade later and you still have a grudge against T-Mac for being comparable to your boy. This is pathetic.

He compared him to Kelly Tripucka.



I never did understand why Kobe fans went above and beyond with their hatred for T-Mac in those days. It's one thing to think you're favorite player is better. That's cool. But they went overboard in their disgust for the comparisons.
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Old 11-16-2012, 06:51 PM   #23
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Default Re: Are There People That Really Feel Tmac Was Better Than Kobe in 03

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Originally Posted by HardwoodLegend
He compared him to Kelly Tripucka.



I never did understand why Kobe fans went above and beyond with their hatred for T-Mac in those days. It's one thing to think you're favorite player is better. That's cool. But they went overboard in their disgust for the comparisons.
They not only want Kobe to be the best, they don't want anyone else to have an argument for being as good or (*gasp*) possibly better! That's why they hate MJ so much, because they can't come up with an argument for Kobe in that scenario
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Old 11-16-2012, 06:52 PM   #24
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Default Re: Are There People That Really Feel Tmac Was Better Than Kobe in 03

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Originally Posted by fsvr54
Tmac was unquestionably, and still is a better passer.

Yea i think so to... put the "maybe" in therefore as people might have different opinions here, afterall its not something T-Mac was extremly significantly much better at....
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Old 11-16-2012, 06:58 PM   #25
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Default Re: Are There People That Really Feel Tmac Was Better Than Kobe in 03

But we still have defense... Kobe was actually significantly better at that, i dont even like Kobe that much but i can tell you it was significant difference, he was a much better man-to-man defender and a smarter defender... he was a 1st all-defensive team guy since 2000.... and T-Mac never got anywhere close, he gambled very much defensively, never took really any pride on defense... which is kindof mindboggling to me as he had all the tools/potential to be a good defender but i guess maybe the mindset & work ethic for that wasnt there...
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Old 11-16-2012, 06:58 PM   #26
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Default Re: Are There People That Really Feel Tmac Was Better Than Kobe in 03

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nikka, you said you'd trade Carmelo for Paul Pierce TODAY. Excuse me if I laugh.


First of all (not that it's relevant), 6 games doesn't make me pick Carmelo over Pierce. I see Pierce being Pierce the duration of his contract, and even if Melo keeps this up and reaches his potential, I don't think his ceiling is a higher one than Pierce's. If I had to win this season, Pierce would give me a better chance because he's the better player. I think Melo will do very well this year and we'll finally win a series. But if we play Boston and the difference is at the SF position, then I believe Boston would win the series.



Now, going back to the other thing...not sure which part you're laughing about. Even if you disagree, is it actually funny to say that McGrady is not more talented than Bryant? Is it stupid to say he's a SG and taller than 6'8?



I don't think he made players around him better. I think that Houston team was often unlucky and a lot of blame is thrown his way and it's unfair. That's genuine. I also think that Orlando team was a bit lol. But I don't think he ever made players around him better and I think a lot of his team's shortcomings do have something to do with him.
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:01 PM   #27
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Default Re: Are There People That Really Feel Tmac Was Better Than Kobe in 03

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Originally Posted by Whoah10115
First of all (not that it's relevant), 6 games doesn't make me pick Carmelo over Pierce. I see Pierce being Pierce the duration of his contract, and even if Melo keeps this up and reaches his potential, I don't think his ceiling is a higher one than Pierce's. If I had to win this season, Pierce would give me a better chance because he's the better player. I think Melo will do very well this year and we'll finally win a series. But if we play Boston and the difference is at the SF position, then I believe Boston would win the series.



Now, going back to the other thing...not sure which part you're laughing about. Even if you disagree, is it actually funny to say that McGrady is not more talented than Bryant? Is it stupid to say he's a SG and taller than 6'8?



I don't think he made players around him better. I think that Houston team was often unlucky and a lot of blame is thrown his way and it's unfair. That's genuine. I also think that Orlando team was a bit lol. But I don't think he ever made players around him better and I think a lot of his team's shortcomings do have something to do with him.
McGrady played with shit outside of Yao Ming so eh. And I can't stand Melo, but I fail to see how you could possibly argue old man Pierce over him. Prime Pierce, sure, but he's past his prime and Melo is far better at this point in time. What would Pierce do that Melo couldn't on the Knicks? And work ethic (and better luck with injuries) is what enabled Kobe to leave McGrady behind after around 2005 or so.
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:01 PM   #28
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Default Re: Are There People That Really Feel Tmac Was Better Than Kobe in 03

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Originally Posted by pauk
But we still have defense... Kobe was actually significantly better at that, i dont even like Kobe that much but i can tell you it was significant difference, he was a much better man-to-man defender and a smarter defender... he was a 1st all-defensive team guy since 2000.... and T-Mac never got anywhere close, he gambled very much defensively, never took really any pride on defense... which is kindof mindboggling to me as he had all the tools/potential to be a good defender but i guess maybe the mindset & work ethic for that wasnt there...

Didn't Kobe start abandoning his defensive prowess once Shaq left and started getting All-D nods based on past reputation?

It was easier for Kobe to be a better defender with an inside presence like Shaq.

T-Mac had to carry pretty much all of Orlando's offense and had no one in the paint to help out on D. Their TEAM defense was atrocious.
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:02 PM   #29
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Default Re: Are There People That Really Feel Tmac Was Better Than Kobe in 03

I think it was debatable, or T-Mac actually WAS better, up until February of that year.

Then, to me, Kobe showed a glimpse that he had another gear that he'd soon reach in a couple of seasons. Not only did he average 40 points per game in the month of February, he played superb defense and thrusted a Laker team that was in danger of missing the playoffs into the post-season. And, he stepped up in this way when Shaq when out, amidst the chatter that "Kobe can't dominate as much without Shaq."
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:10 PM   #30
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Default Re: Are There People That Really Feel Tmac Was Better Than Kobe in 03

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Originally Posted by RRR3
McGrady played with shit outside of Yao Ming so eh. And I can't stand Melo, but I fail to see how you could possibly argue old man Pierce over him. Prime Pierce, sure, but he's past his prime and Melo is far better at this point in time. What would Pierce do that Melo couldn't on the Knicks? And work ethic (and better luck with injuries) is what enabled Kobe to leave McGrady behind after around 2005 or so.



It might be why Kobe left McGrady, but that doesn't mean McGrady is more talented. At least not to the point that I think it's very noticeable. That's my opinion tho and I respect someone else thinking otherwise. I just think that some people (and not T-Mac fans) like to look at someone like McGrady and, while blaming his lack of mentality, choose to play down someone else's talent to stress their point. Barkley used to call (a lot more than once) Rasheed the most talented player...in NBA history.



Now, on to the Pierce/Melo thing...why is Pierce not in his prime? Because he's Old Man Pierce? He's the same player, sharing the ball and playing in that offense. He can drop 40 at any time...or settle for 32, in the 2nd half. His rebounding ability isn't any different. The stats don't bear out the way that team plays...he's a better playmaker than before, and he's a better defender. And he still plays 34-35MPG. This year, his shot has been off. But he's just under 20 a game and he's getting up a lot of shots...and he's rebounding. His first step is still pretty close to what it was and his speed is hardly an issue. He used to play 2guard.
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