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Old 11-16-2012, 06:12 PM   #31
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Default Re: Are There People That Really Feel Tmac Was Better Than Kobe in 03

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Originally Posted by BlackVVaves
I think it was debatable, or T-Mac actually WAS better, up until February of that year.

Then, to me, Kobe showed a glimpse that he had another gear that he'd soon reach in a couple of seasons. Not only did he average 40 points per game in the month of February, he played superb defense and thrusted a Laker team that was in danger of missing the playoffs into the post-season. And, he stepped up in this way when Shaq when out, amidst the chatter that "Kobe can't dominate as much without Shaq."



I agree with this and this is why I choose Kobe. And while I don't think anyone is stupid for thinking McGrady is more talented, I never understand people talking about as if Kobe isn't on the same level talent-wise. I had Kobe as the MVP that year.
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Old 11-16-2012, 06:13 PM   #32
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Default Re: Are There People That Really Feel Tmac Was Better Than Kobe in 03

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Originally Posted by Whoah10115
Never understood this.


McGrady was not more talented (at least not noticeable). Kobe was the better athlete and more skilled. McGrady was comparable, but he wasn't more talented. Kobe is the better scorer, tho McGrady is maybe a better rebounder (arguable) and a better pure passer. But Kobe is also a better playmaker.


I also don't believe he was a SF. He clearly preferred being a SG, as he's almost 6'10 and doesn't tell the truth about his height lol.


Beyond the mentality, the thing with McGrady is that I feel he's overrated. RRR3 laughed when I said Grant Hill was better, but he was better. McGrady isn't Carmelo, but he didn't elevate people around him. I'm very aware his team sucked, so I don't hold it against him. But people always talk about how he showed up in the playoffs I don't believe that. Grant Hill never got out of the 1st round, but even when he didn't quite play well he elevated the guys around him. I don't think McGrady ever did that.

Kobe is my favorite player ever..........and I am saying that this statement by you is laughable at best.
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Old 11-16-2012, 06:15 PM   #33
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Default Re: Are There People That Really Feel Tmac Was Better Than Kobe in 03

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Originally Posted by HardwoodLegend
Didn't Kobe start abandoning his defensive prowess once Shaq left and started getting All-D nods based on past reputation?

It was easier for Kobe to be a better defender with an inside presence like Shaq.

T-Mac had to carry pretty much all of Orlando's offense and had no one in the paint to help out on D. Their TEAM defense was atrocious.

That's the common idea here on ISH, but that's not the case really...at least for 2003. Kobe did start gambling on D more that year though.

That's also a misconception. In 2003 Shaq wasn't a presence inside on defense like he was in 2000 or even 2001. Besides big men can't make perimeter defenders know how to fight through screens, play passing lanes, keep their matchup from penetrating and collapsing the defense, etc.

When Shaq was out (he missed a fair amount of time) Kobe had to carry the offense. If it weren't for him the Lakers probably wouldn't have even made the playoffs. By 2003 it was pretty much Kobe/Shaq and a bunch of scrubs. That team was even more dependent on those two than the 2000 team was.
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Old 11-16-2012, 06:23 PM   #34
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Default Re: Are There People That Really Feel Tmac Was Better Than Kobe in 03

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Originally Posted by HardwoodLegend
It was a duo ruined by injuries. One was hurt while the other wasn't at crucial points in time. They were on a seesaw and never really got in good rhythm. If he had a good team from 00-03, T-Mac absolutely would have won more.



- Oh here we go....let the excuses flow like melted snow from the highest peak...


- They both were healthy in 05'.....both played 80 games......nothing from that season pointed to Houston doing anything.

- Tmac didn't know how to play with another Star, chemistry issues were a plenty and Tmacs team underwhelmed again in the post season....Houston played much better without him.

- If this...If that.....all we heard from Tmac his whole career....Tmac had a few Great seasons....Underwhelmed for 1/3rd of his career.

and anyone saying Dominique Wilkins was not greater then Tmac....must be bath salt crazy.

Nique>Tmac all dey erydey twice on Sunday.
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Old 11-16-2012, 06:24 PM   #35
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Default Re: Are There People That Really Feel Tmac Was Better Than Kobe in 03

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Originally Posted by Euroleague
Kobe is my favorite player ever..........and I am saying that this statement by you is laughable at best.



I don't think so.
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Old 11-16-2012, 06:24 PM   #36
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Default Re: Are There People That Really Feel Tmac Was Better Than Kobe in 03

Didn't Alphapup say Dominique=MJ? Hard to take this guy seriously sometimes, although when he's not trolling he does seem to know his stuff.
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Old 11-16-2012, 06:25 PM   #37
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Default Re: Are There People That Really Feel Tmac Was Better Than Kobe in 03

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Originally Posted by HardwoodLegend
Didn't Kobe start abandoning his defensive prowess once Shaq left and started getting All-D nods based on past reputation?

It was easier for Kobe to be a better defender with an inside presence like Shaq.

T-Mac had to carry pretty much all of Orlando's offense and had no one in the paint to help out on D. Their TEAM defense was atrocious.


(yawns)......
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Old 11-16-2012, 06:27 PM   #38
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Default Re: Are There People That Really Feel Tmac Was Better Than Kobe in 03

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Originally Posted by RRR3
Didn't Alphapup say Dominique=MJ? Hard to take this guy seriously sometimes, although when he's not trolling he does seem to know his stuff.


I said Nique and MJ were often compared to each other early in thier careers.....I said it reminded me of the Tmac vs Kobe era from 2002 - 2005..

Clearly Mj proved to be a much better player from Nique...as did Kobe from Tmac.
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Old 11-16-2012, 06:28 PM   #39
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Default Re: Are There People That Really Feel Tmac Was Better Than Kobe in 03

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Originally Posted by AlphaWolf24
I said Nique and MJ were often compared to each other early in thier careers.....I said it reminded me of the Tmac vs Kobe era from 2002 - 2005..
MJ, Kobe and T-Mac were all far better all-around players than Nique, though, no?
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Old 11-16-2012, 06:29 PM   #40
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Default Re: Are There People That Really Feel Tmac Was Better Than Kobe in 03

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Originally Posted by RRR3
MJ, Kobe and T-Mac were all far better all-around players than Nique, though, no?

NO.....I doubt you watched Dominique Wilkins.

During his first 7 years....he was unstoppable.

MJ clearly seperated himself from Nique and his peers..( when MJ refined his overall game ...by 1990 Jordan was just on another level).....but early on...Nique and MJ were the Kobe and Tmac of the 80's

Last edited by AlphaWolf24 : 11-16-2012 at 06:31 PM.
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Old 11-16-2012, 06:30 PM   #41
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Default Re: Are There People That Really Feel Tmac Was Better Than Kobe in 03

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Originally Posted by AlphaWolf24
NO.....I doubt you watched Dominique Wilkins.

During his first 7 years....he was unstoppable.
I didn't watch Nique, which is why I asked the question. From what I've read/heard he wasn't known as a great passer, shooter, or defender though.
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Old 11-16-2012, 06:31 PM   #42
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Default Re: Are There People That Really Feel Tmac Was Better Than Kobe in 03

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Originally Posted by RRR3
Didn't Alphapup say Dominique=MJ? Hard to take this guy seriously sometimes, although when he's not trolling he does seem to know his stuff.



Dominique was a solid man defender and a very good rebounder. But he's not all-around the those other guys were.
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Old 11-16-2012, 06:34 PM   #43
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Default Re: Are There People That Really Feel Tmac Was Better Than Kobe in 03

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Originally Posted by AlphaWolf24
- They both were healthy in 05'.....both played 80 games......nothing from that season pointed to Houston doing anything.

- Tmac didn't know how to play with another Star, chemistry issues were a plenty and Tmacs team underwhelmed again in the post season....Houston played much better without him.

No mention of how Yao's fatigue hurt the Rockets in the 2005 Playoffs? He was only able to play 31 minutes per game in that series.

It's not that T-Mac didn't know how to play with another star. They just didn't have the adequate time to develop with one another.

Houston played much better without him? That must be why Yao missed a pretty big chunk of that 21 game win streak with T-Mac leading the way.

Bringing up the year when Houston advanced without him is irrelevant since the roster became more well-rounded at that point. T-Mac's injuries really started to get in the way that year, and he wasn't lucky enough to enjoy the fruits of Houston's front office's labors. A healthy T-Mac would have put that squad over the top.
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Old 11-16-2012, 06:38 PM   #44
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Default Re: Are There People That Really Feel Tmac Was Better Than Kobe in 03

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Originally Posted by Whoah10115
Dominique was a solid man defender and a very good rebounder. But he's not all-around the those other guys were.
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...&postcount=212
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Old 11-16-2012, 06:42 PM   #45
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Default Re: Are There People That Really Feel Tmac Was Better Than Kobe in 03

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Originally Posted by HardwoodLegend
No mention of how Yao's fatigue hurt the Rockets in the 2005 Playoffs? He was only able to play 31 minutes per game in that series.

It's not that T-Mac didn't know how to play with another star. They just didn't have the adequate time to develop with one another.

Houston played much better without him? That must be why Yao missed a pretty big chunk of that 21 game win streak with T-Mac leading the way.

Bringing up the year when Houston advanced without him is irrelevant since the roster became more well-rounded at that point. T-Mac's injuries really started to get in the way that year, and he wasn't lucky enough to enjoy the fruits of Houston's front office's labors. A healthy T-Mac would have put that squad over the top.


- we saw what a heathy Tmac could do...it was No where near bieng a championship caliber team....

- agin..I'm baseing my judgment of watching Tmacs whole career....he didn't have the mental fortitude to be a champion.

a healthy Tmac with a Houston would do what every Tmac team has done....

either - struggle with Tmac dominating he offense and get no where.....or Tmac trying to le the game come to him with teh team playing marginally better....mentally folding and still go no where


again...just going by what happened in reality.
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