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Old 11-16-2012, 06:44 PM   #46
Young X
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Default Re: Are There People That Really Feel Tmac Was Better Than Kobe in 03

'03 Kobe > '03 Mac IMO, but they were close. Kobe was ridiculous that season though (9 straight 40 pt games, career high in rebounds and steals, etc.)
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Old 11-16-2012, 06:47 PM   #47
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Default Re: Are There People That Really Feel Tmac Was Better Than Kobe in 03

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Originally Posted by AlphaWolf24
- we saw what a heathy Tmac could do...it was No where near bieng a championship caliber team....

- agin..I'm baseing my judgment of watching Tmacs whole career....he didn't have the mental fortitude to be a champion.

a healthy Tmac with a Houston would do what every Tmac team has done....

either - struggle with Tmac dominating he offense and get no where.....or Tmac trying to le the game come to him with teh team playing marginally better....mentally folding and still go no where


again...just going by what happened in reality.

You're judging him based on what happened in ONE season when he had a legitimate shot at some postseason success... compared to Kobe's how many?

It's not like he got to grow under Shaq's shadow where it was much easier to learn within a winning culture. Your undervaluing how important good coaching and team environments are.

He had very good team basketball instincts and was an underrated playmaker, and that's after having to suffer through some dark years where he was stranded with no help.
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Old 11-16-2012, 06:48 PM   #48
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Default Re: Are There People That Really Feel Tmac Was Better Than Kobe in 03

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Originally Posted by RRR3
I didn't watch Nique, which is why I asked the question. From what I've read/heard he wasn't known as a great passer, shooter, or defender though.


- Dominant Scorer ( could take over games and was basically ungaurdable from the elbow in)..excellent rebounder and above average defender

His role was to score....he was not a Magic or Bird type player/ passer

- That's what's funny when you kids make fun of my saying " MJ is just a Baldheaded Dominique Wilkins"...it's not a slight at all.

Dominique was one of the most exciting players ever....one of the most athletic payers ever..one of he most dominating players ever.....he just could never win a Title...that's what I was referencing with MJ ( wihout Pippen)
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Old 11-16-2012, 06:52 PM   #49
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Default Re: Are There People That Really Feel Tmac Was Better Than Kobe in 03




Well...at least I learned something.
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Old 11-16-2012, 06:54 PM   #50
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Default Re: Are There People That Really Feel Tmac Was Better Than Kobe in 03

No, I thought Kobe was better overall that year (regular season and playoffs, but T-Mac did have some pretty good games in the playoffs too). But, with T-Mac getting a scoring title that year, I can more than see the case. Kobe's defense also give him the edge too, that year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Young X
'03 Kobe > '03 Mac IMO, but they were close. Kobe was ridiculous that season though (9 straight 40 pt games, career high in rebounds and steals, etc.)

Well, there's also the case if Kobe didn't play with Shaq that his numbers would be even better too.
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Old 11-16-2012, 06:57 PM   #51
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Default Re: Are There People That Really Feel Tmac Was Better Than Kobe in 03

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Originally Posted by Young X
'03 Kobe > '03 Mac IMO, but they were close. Kobe was ridiculous that season though (9 straight 40 pt games, career high in rebounds and steals, etc.)
True, and people often forget (or at least what I consider) to be the reason for Kobe's 9 straight games of 40+

T-Mac consistently held his averages from the start of the season, until the end. Scuttle butt started asking if T-Mac was the best guard in the league, and had he over thrown Kobe.

I remember at the start of that season, when Kobe added 15 lbs of muscle out of NO WHERE, in a SLAM magazine directly addressing fans questions of was T-Mac better, could he do what he could do ... etc.

Kobe claimed he could average what Mac did but he also had to fit his game into a contending champions system, and appease Shaq. Which Mac didn't have to do on his team. His fellow superstar Grant Hill never saw the light of day. But if he never did get hurt, that combo by the way would've been utterly devastating down in Orlando.

But I think Kobe went on that rampage because people started questioning Mac being better than him. And mind you, Kobe wasn't consistently averaging near 30 ppg for the first few months of the season. He went on a tear to get his averages up.

That is in some light even more impressive. I remember that game in 2002 - 2003 down in Orlando and Mac was killing the Lakers in the first half. Kobe went on defending him in the 2nd half and locked him down. Got so upset he threw down a two handed dunk and violently smacked the back board.

2003 is arguably Kobe's best season from an individual level. Too bad the Lakers staff let the roster rot around Kobe and Shaq, and too bad Snack's lazy ass didn't contribute and compete the way he should have been. They could've legit won a 4th ring in a row.

That was the first year where Kobe clearly over took Shaq as the best player on the team. Anyone arguing otherwise is a Shaq stan and/or Kobe hater.
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:02 PM   #52
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Default Re: Are There People That Really Feel Tmac Was Better Than Kobe in 03

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Originally Posted by HardwoodLegend
You're judging him based on what happened in ONE season when he had a legitimate shot at some postseason success... compared to Kobe's how many?

It's not like he got to grow under Shaq's shadow where it was much easier to learn within a winning culture. Your undervaluing how important good coaching and team environments are.

He had very good team basketball instincts and was an underrated playmaker, and that's after having to suffer through some dark years where he was stranded with no help.


- Shaq's shadow?.......what shadow?.....destroying team chemistry everywhere he goes. Please don't use the Shaq made it "easy"...it's tired and been debunkedover and over.....

you should know this consderng how much that Tmac struggled with Yao.....

- You are overvalueing all this " Kobe has a team and culture"...Tmac didn't garbage.

- Many Great players have played on great teams.....not just Kobe.

- Bird , Magic , Jordan , Duncan ( His whole career) , Kevin Durant has been on a championship caliber tem for the past 4 seasons)...Dirk has had a championship caliber team for over a decade , Lebron has been on championship caliber team for 7 years now...

Tmac had the talent...he even left to join another superstar....that was his time to prove he belonged with he other past greats.....but he didn't....

there has to be more organic approach to sports then just giving attributes and using Math - A + B = c.....it doesn't work

Tmac is not a winner...period......to the winner goes the spoils....duh.
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:03 PM   #53
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Default Re: Are There People That Really Feel Tmac Was Better Than Kobe in 03

Why are we still arguing this anyways? Tired of Kobe threads.
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:05 PM   #54
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Default Re: Are There People That Really Feel Tmac Was Better Than Kobe in 03

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Originally Posted by RRR3
Why are we still arguing this anyways? Tired of Kobe threads.
It was an ISH staple for a LONG time. Show some respect for one of the foundation arguments in the early days of ISH, youngin.

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Old 11-16-2012, 07:06 PM   #55
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Default Re: Are There People That Really Feel Tmac Was Better Than Kobe in 03

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Originally Posted by Money 23
But I think Kobe went on that rampage because people started questioning Mac being better than him. And mind you, Kobe wasn't consistently averaging near 30 ppg for the first few months of the season. He went on a tear to get his averages up.
Yeah, Kobe was only averaging 27 on 44% for the first 30 games of 2003.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Money 23
2003 is arguably Kobe's best season from an individual level. Too bad the Lakers staff let the roster rot around Kobe and Shaq, and too bad Snack's lazy ass didn't contribute and compete the way he should have been. They could've legit won a 4th ring in a row.
Kobe, ability-wise was definetely at his best in '03, he was stronger/more explosive than ever was and he added 3pt range to his game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Money 23
That was the first year where Kobe clearly over took Shaq as the best player on the team. Anyone arguing otherwise is a Shaq stan and/or Kobe hater.
I wouldn't say he took over, Shaq was still playing on the exact same level he was the year before when he won Finals MVP, i'd say that they were 1A/1B, like Lebron and Wade in '11.

Last edited by Young X : 11-16-2012 at 07:09 PM.
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:07 PM   #56
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Default Re: Are There People That Really Feel Tmac Was Better Than Kobe in 03

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Originally Posted by Money 23
It was an ISH staple for a LONG time. Show some respect for one of the foundation arguments in the early days of ISH, youngin.



dat ether
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:07 PM   #57
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Default Re: Are There People That Really Feel Tmac Was Better Than Kobe in 03

Quote:
Originally Posted by Money 23
It was an ISH staple for a LONG time. Show some respect for one of the foundation arguments in the early days of ISH, youngin.

ISH is making me more and more of a Kobe hater, I can feel it Tired of his fans shitting on my two favorite players ever, for that matter

I still think I'm pretty realistic about Bryant, at least at the moment. I've never been able to enjoy watching him play, though, in large part because I can't stand hearing all the nonsense from his fans. I should be a bigger man than that, but I'm not so hey, what can you do?
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:09 PM   #58
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Default Re: Are There People That Really Feel Tmac Was Better Than Kobe in 03

Quote:
Originally Posted by Young X
Yeah, Kobe was only averaging 27 on 44% for the first 30 games of 2003.

2003 is arguably Kobe's best season from an individual level. Too bad the Lakers staff let the roster rot around Kobe and Shaq, and too bad Snack's lazy ass didn't contribute and compete the way he should have been. They could've legit won a 4th ring in a row.
Kobe, ability-wise was definetely at his best in '03, he was stronger/more explosive than ever was and he added more 3pt range to his game.

Quote:
That was the first year where Kobe clearly over took Shaq as the best player on the team. Anyone arguing otherwise is a Shaq stan and/or Kobe hater.
Quote:
I wouldn't say he took over, Shaq was still playing on the exact same level he was the year before when he won Finals MVP, i'd say that they were 1A/1B like Lebron and Wade in '11.[/
QUOTE][/quote]


Not sure where you are from...but hre in Cali...Kobe was by far the best player on te team...arguably since 2001 WCFinals.

still remember going o Santa Monica and seeing a big Poster of Sports Illustrated.....Kobe was putting up Wilt Chamberlain stats......it was amazing.
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:18 PM   #59
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Default Re: Are There People That Really Feel Tmac Was Better Than Kobe in 03

I'd say same level. In early 00's Kobe,Iverson,T-Mac and Vince Carter were neck to neck.

Between Kobe & T-Mac, they both have advantages and disadvantages to each other. Maybe T-Mac was more talented but he didn't have same determination to win through all game long like Kobe had.

T-Mac was one of those rare guys who can score 50 points and make it look effortless.
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:19 PM   #60
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Default Re: Are There People That Really Feel Tmac Was Better Than Kobe in 03

Quote:
Originally Posted by rodman91
I'd say same level. In early 00's Kobe,Iverson,T-Mac and Vince Carter were neck to neck.

Between Kobe & T-Mac, they both have advantages and disadvantages to each other. Maybe T-Mac was more talented but he didn't have same determination to win through all game long like Kobe had.

T-Mac was one of those rare guys who can score 50 points and make it look effortless.
Good post. I think Be, T-Mac and AI were all on a higher level than VC, though.
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