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Old 11-29-2012, 12:10 PM   #16
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Default Re: Just how strong was Ben Wallace??

Didn't Ben's mother died few days before and Artest cursed his mother? I heard this story somewhere
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Old 11-29-2012, 12:15 PM   #17
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Default Re: Just how strong was Ben Wallace??

You guys are all retarded. Wallace would **** Artest up easily.
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Old 11-29-2012, 12:16 PM   #18
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Default Re: Just how strong was Ben Wallace??

LOL @ "strength" and "bench press" being sole reasoning for superior fighter.
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Old 11-29-2012, 12:26 PM   #19
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Default Re: Just how strong was Ben Wallace??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nashty
Didn't Ben's mother died few days before and Artest cursed his mother? I heard this story somewhere
It was one of Wallace's brothers who'd recently passed. And I'd never heard anything about Artest cursing Wallace's passed brother. I would very, very, very much doubt that ever occurred.

Back to the Artest foul, I still believe this was very clearly intentional on Artest's part and he made it to look subtle on purpose, again so he could play the innocent card. The play certainly didn't come out of nowhere, he and Ben had an escalating couple of minutes toward the end of the game that night. An excerpt from the recent Grantland story:

Quote:
Stephen Jackson (guard/forward, Pacers): [Toward] the end of the game, I recall somebody on the team told Ron, "You can get one now." I heard it. I think somebody was shooting a free throw. Somebody said to Ron, "You can get one now," meaning you can lay a foul on somebody who he had beef with in the game.

O'Neal: I remember guys talking about that. I had just gotten taken out of the game maybe two or three minutes before that. We had just blown them out. You could see there was animosity.

Mike Brown (assistant coach, Pacers): You could see it start to get a little testy between Ron and Ben. There was a foul at one end, another foul, and then a borderline foul and problems beyond the foul. The game was out of hand. I was hoping the officials were going to kick both players out.

Jackson: Ben was the wrong person [to foul] because, if I'm not mistaken, his brother had just passed and he was going through some issues. I was guarding Ben, I let him score. I was trying to let the clock run out. And Ron just came from out of nowhere and just clobbered him. I'm like, "What the hell is going on?" I had no clue that was about to happen. When that happened, everything just happened so fast, man.

Ben Wallace (forward/center, Pistons): He told me he was going to hit me, and he did it. That was just one of those things. It happened in the heat of the battle.

Larry Brown: Everybody in our league takes hard fouls. There's a time and place for them. Maybe you put a guy on the line and don't let him shoot a layup late in the game to make him earn it from the free throw line. But when the game's over, I don't think many guys in our league are going out trying to hurt somebody. That was kind of unusual and I think that's maybe why Ben reacted the way he did.
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/...-malice-palace

Last edited by Rake2204 : 11-29-2012 at 12:30 PM.
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Old 11-29-2012, 12:27 PM   #20
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Default Re: Just how strong was Ben Wallace??

no excuse for the way Ben Wallace reacted. he escalated the whole situation.
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Old 11-29-2012, 12:28 PM   #21
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Default Re: Just how strong was Ben Wallace??

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Originally Posted by Clippersfan86
I was just watching Malice in the Palace again and when dude shoves Artest... Artest who's a big, strong dude goes flying back like 10 feet. I remember in the early 00's I heard that Wallace could bench press more than anybody in the NBA (well more than Shaq) and had ridiculous strength in the weight room in general.

I seriously think Wallace would have wrecked Artest if that fight had happened and it was the only time I've ever seen Artest look pretty shook. Anybody have any opinions or facts on the upper body or overall strength of Big Ben? Even now he's jacked as hell and stronger than a lot of guys in his late 30's.
The reason Artest stepped back 10 feet was because he lost his balance. So that is no indication of Ben's strength at all.
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Old 11-29-2012, 12:29 PM   #22
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Default Re: Just how strong was Ben Wallace??

Artest's always been a dirty player and a rotten teammate(many of his Pacer's teammates have admitted as such). Ron should give his DPOY award to Rick Carlisle - he was the one that heavily campaigned for Artest and printed out his stats and gave them out to the voters. I can't recall any other DPOY winner needing their coach to win them the award in this fashion
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Old 11-29-2012, 12:34 PM   #23
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Default Re: Just how strong was Ben Wallace??

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Originally Posted by STATUTORY
no excuse for the way Ben Wallace reacted. he escalated the whole situation.

But I suppose Artest probably had every right to go in the stands and defend himself?

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Old 11-29-2012, 12:34 PM   #24
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Default Re: Just how strong was Ben Wallace??

Quote:
Originally Posted by STATUTORY
no excuse for the way Ben Wallace reacted. he escalated the whole situation.
Not to go back down this road again, but I really don't think there was much of an excuse for anyone's actions. It comes across a little funky when folks look only to Ben Wallace to explain the situation. There was no excuse for Ben to respond so poorly. No excuse for Artest to stick a needlessly rough foul with under a minute left in a 20 point game. No excuse for Pacers teammates to tell Artest it was "okay to take one". No excuse for Stephen Jackson to act in the manner he did. No excuse for a Pistons fan to decide it's a good idea to throw a plastic cup. And no excuse for Ron Artest to plow into the stands at random because the aforementioned plastic cup landed on his chest as he was laying down on a scorer's table.

At some point though, regardless of who started or created a situation, a person must be responsible for their own actions. Wallace's violent and illegal response is not justified because Artest hit him first. Similarly, any of the insanity that took place in the stands that night should not be justified by the claim that Wallace was the one who supposedly escalated things to begin with. At that point, we may as well blame Dr. James Naismith for inventing basketball, for it was his decision that ultimately led us to that one fateful night in 2004.

Last edited by Rake2204 : 11-29-2012 at 12:45 PM.
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Old 11-29-2012, 12:47 PM   #25
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Default Re: Just how strong was Ben Wallace??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Money 23
LOL @ "strength" and "bench press" being sole reasoning for superior fighter.
Is not but if he connects that would probably break your face.
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Old 11-29-2012, 12:48 PM   #26
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Default Re: Just how strong was Ben Wallace??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rake2204
Not to go back down this road again, but I really don't think there was much of an excuse for anyone's actions. It comes across a little funky when folks look only to Ben Wallace to explain the situation. There was no excuse for Ben to respond so poorly. No excuse for Artest to stick a needlessly rough foul with under a minute left in a 20 point game. No excuse for Pacers teammates to tell Artest it was "okay to take one". No excuse for Stephen Jackson to act in the manner he did. No excuse for a Pistons fan to decide it's a good idea to throw a plastic cup. And no excuse for Ron Artest to plow into the stands at random because the aforementioned plastic cup landed on his chest as he was laying down on a scorer's table.

At some point though, regardless of who started or created a situation, a person must be responsible for their own actions. Wallace's violent and illegal response is not justified because Artest hit him first. Similarly, any of the insanity that took place in the stands that night should not be justified by the claim that Wallace was the one who supposedly escalated things to begin with.


I only single out ben wallace because his reputation escaped relatively intact after this incident. While we can't talk about Artest's legacy without the malice in the palace being brought up, Wallace was lightly punished by the league and has evaded any negative infamy from the fight. Artest is often seen as the singular source for the mayhem and even reading those comments by players/coaches they seem to indict Artest more than anyone. That's why I point out Wallace's role in the debacle
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Old 11-29-2012, 12:49 PM   #27
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Default Re: Just how strong was Ben Wallace??

Why "was"? You're stronger in your 30's than in your 20's.
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Old 11-29-2012, 12:56 PM   #28
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Default Re: Just how strong was Ben Wallace??

You guys misunderstood. I was saying Ben would win a fight on a separate note, not based on a strength advantage.
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Old 11-29-2012, 12:59 PM   #29
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Default Re: Just how strong was Ben Wallace??

Quote:
Originally Posted by STATUTORY
I only single out ben wallace because his reputation escaped relatively intact after this incident. While we can't talk about Artest's legacy without the malice in the palace being brought up, Wallace was lightly punished by the league and has evaded any negative infamy from the fight. Artest is often seen as the singular source for the mayhem and even reading those comments by players/coaches they seem to indict Artest more than anyone. That's why I point out Wallace's role in the debacle
Of course. If I step on your toe and you go ahead and blew up a gas station in your anger, you're gonna get most of the blame too.
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Old 11-29-2012, 01:07 PM   #30
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Default Re: Just how strong was Ben Wallace??

Quote:
Originally Posted by STATUTORY
I only single out ben wallace because his reputation escaped relatively intact after this incident. While we can't talk about Artest's legacy without the malice in the palace being brought up, Wallace was lightly punished by the league and has evaded any negative infamy from the fight. Artest is often seen as the singular source for the mayhem and even reading those comments by players/coaches they seem to indict Artest more than anyone. That's why I point out Wallace's role in the debacle
Fair enough, though I feel there's a reason why Artest is indicted much more than Wallace. Namely, it was Artest who ultimately decided to leap up into the stands and begin grabbing and smothering fans at random.

For instance, during the skirmish between Brooklyn and Boston last night, had C.J. Watson been pushed and then jumped into the crowd and pulled an Artest by pummeling fans at random, should Kris Humphries and Rajon Rondo be held equally accountable for Watson's independent hypothetical insanity? Should it not be remembered as the time C.J. Watson completely lost it? As opposed to "The time Rajon Rondo and Kris Humphries were equally to blame for the independently insane actions of another player who happened to be on the floor"?

Players have had dustups for as long as the league's been around. Blame for those player-to-player donnybrooks has always been thrown about to each participant. Eventually, the fights become nothing more than a footnote because nothing of note usually happens (ex: who was responsible for the Bird/Erving/Barkley fight?) The difference in the Palace fight, again, is the fact that somebody went insane.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamgine
Of course. If I step on your toe and you go ahead and blew up a gas station in your anger, you're gonna get most of the blame too.
I suppose that's a much more succinct way of putting it.
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