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Old 11-30-2012, 12:16 AM   #31
La Frescobaldi
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Default Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated

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Originally Posted by andgar923
I didn't say he was, re-read.


""""It will sound very harsh for some reading, but one can even argue that he was a glorified role player (see Haslem)"""""

that sounds very harsh for anybody that saw Dennis Rodman play basketball.
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Old 11-30-2012, 12:29 AM   #32
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Default Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated

Quote:
Originally Posted by La Frescobaldi
""""It will sound very harsh for some reading, but one can even argue that he was a glorified role player (see Haslem)"""""

that sounds very harsh for anybody that saw Dennis Rodman play basketball.

"but one can even argue"

I never stated that he was like Haslem, but one can certainly make an argument that he was a glorified role player similar to Haslem. A player that has one role which is to be tough defensively and rebound. Although even Haslem had to be an option offensively.

Rodman's sole focus was to rebound, that's what he did. If they ran plays for him he'd lose position and possibly use up some energy which will result in a decline in his boards.

We are also talking about an older Rodman and NOT the defensive player of the year version.

But as I mentioned, it sounds harsh but not my intention to diminish him as much as it may appear. Simply something to think about.
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Old 11-30-2012, 12:31 AM   #33
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Default Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated

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Originally Posted by Derivative
Dennis Rodman was so overrated to have been called one of the "Big 3" of the 2nd three-peat bulls, this is what Rodman averaged in 1996, 1997, and 1998 playoffs:

1996:
7.5ppg, 13.7rpg, 2.1apg, 48.5%FG

1997:
4.2ppg, 8.4rpg, 1.4apg, 37.0%FG

1998:
4.9ppg, 11.8rpg, 2.0apg, 37.1%FG


And here is what Pau Gasol averaged in the 2008, 2009, and 2010 playoffs:

2008:
16.9ppg, 9.3rpg, 4apg, 53%FG

2009:
18.3rpg, 10.8rpg, 2.5apg, 58%FG

2010:
19.6ppg, 11.1rpg, 3.5apg, 53.9%FG


The second three-peat Bulls has the WEAKEST frontcourt in the history of NBA out of all championship teams, and it's amazing how they could of threepeated against opponents such as Shaquille O'Neal, Shawn Kemp, Karl Malone, Patrick Ewing, Alonzo Mourning
That's what the Lebrontards says to put lebron on Mj's level.
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Old 11-30-2012, 12:36 AM   #34
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Default Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated

Many people were saying that Rodman should have been the MVP of the '96 Finals. Also his presence (combined with Grant's injury) was the major difference in the outcome of the Bulls- Magic playoff series between '95 and '96.
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Old 11-30-2012, 12:43 AM   #35
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Default Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated

Rodman is one of those players for whom his stats just don't tell the whole story. If I already have Jordan/Pippen, I'll take Rodman over Gasol every time.
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Old 11-30-2012, 12:46 AM   #36
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Default Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated

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Originally Posted by Yao Ming's Foot
The difference of course was that Rodman put up those rebounding numbers in 32 minutes a game to Gasol's 40 and was the anchor to the Bulls #1, #3 and #4 ranked defense.

Rodman was at best the 3rd best defender on that team, arguably 4th. No single player was the defensive anchor of that team.
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Old 11-30-2012, 12:49 AM   #37
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Default Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated

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Originally Posted by La Frescobaldi
If Dennis Rodman of the 2nd three-peat Bulls was playing in the NBA right now today he'd be the best defensive player in the League, he'd be winning the NBA rebounding titles, and if he was on any kind of contender he'd be headed at least to the Conference Finals. Rodman had indescribable impact.

His defense was otherworldly at times. He ain't the best rebounder of all time like a lot of people claim, but he is right up there at the top.

This thread is just wrong on every level. The idea that Pau Gasol has more impact on a team than Dennis Rodman is nutty. Rodman just ate opposing teams at times. Using stats to talk about Dennis Rodman is like using stats to talk about Bill Russell or Robert Parish.

I agree with most of what you've said here, but 96-98' Rodman was not the defender that Dwight Howard is, not even close. Rodman's defense had fallen off substantially by the time he joined the Bulls.
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Old 11-30-2012, 02:01 AM   #38
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Default Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated

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Originally Posted by DatAsh
Rodman is one of those players for whom his stats just don't tell the whole story. If I already have Jordan/Pippen, I'll take Rodman over Gasol every time.
Agreed
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Old 11-30-2012, 02:18 AM   #39
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Default Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated

Quote:
Originally Posted by DatAsh
Rodman was at best the 3rd best defender on that team, arguably 4th. No single player was the defensive anchor of that team.

And it must be some strange coincidence that Rodman had the lowest individual defensive rating on the team for those years on the Bulls as well.

Last edited by Yao Ming's Foot : 11-30-2012 at 02:20 AM.
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Old 11-30-2012, 02:25 AM   #40
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Default Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yao Ming's Foot
And it must be some strange coincidence that Rodman had the lowest individual defensive rating on the team for those years on the Bulls as well.

individual defensive ratings are calculated from box score numbers and are inherently useless (see Boozer)

they undersell great perimeter defenders (Bowen, Dumars, Kobe, etc.)

team defensive ratings are quite useful, but not for this discussion

I think Rodman was the 3rd best defender (after Pippen, Jordan), but the most important since he was able to slow down/shut down dominant bigs (pretty much all he could do at that point his career)

without Rodman the threepeat doesn't happen (not going to speculate as to how many those Bulls win), but he was certainly not the defensive anchor (Worm was an excellent man defender, though not an all-time great help/team defender or paint protector)...that honor goes to Pippen IMO
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Old 11-30-2012, 02:34 AM   #41
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Default Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yao Ming's Foot
And it must be some strange coincidence that Rodman had the lowest individual defensive rating on the team for those years on the Bulls as well.

I'm not saying Rodman wasn't a great defender, but to say that he was the Bull's defensive anchor is incorrect. Like I said, the second three-peat Bulls didn't really have a defensive anchor per say, they were great for two reasons.

1) Talent - They had one excellent defender in Scottie Pippen, three great defenders in Jordan, Rodman, and Harper, and several more above average defenders.
2) Mindset/Effort - Those Bulls were one of the few teams who really put in 100% effort each and every night.
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Old 11-30-2012, 03:50 AM   #42
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Default Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated

Rodman's defense on the Bulls is indeed vastly overrated. Guard all 5 positions? Please. This wasn't 1989 anymore.
He was still a great defender, but often he would sacrifice a good defensive position for a good rebounding position
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Old 11-30-2012, 03:59 AM   #43
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Default Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated

idk, about overrated, but karl malone shouldve killed rodman. jazz lost because he didnt step up. rodman pretty much dared him to shoot and he just couldnt make them, even though he had for most of his career. some people say it was the gay stuff rodman did to rattle opponents, but he still should have played better than he did.

sonics clearly didnt believe they could win, especially guys like detlef. payton seemed to be the only one to play with a "fukk chicago" mentality. he wasnt afraid of them like many of his teammates.
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Old 11-30-2012, 04:09 AM   #44
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Default Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated

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Old 11-30-2012, 04:16 AM   #45
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Default Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated

My big issue with Rodman was how much he messed with the offense and defense and he focused on positioning for rebounds. I think I remember hearing Tex Winter at the time lamenting how he would ruin rotations or mess things up for teammates in order to secure rebounds. Reminds me of the Clippers era Camby. Great box score numbers, but you'd sometimes see him steal rebounds from teammates instead of running back.
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