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Old 11-30-2012, 12:25 PM   #61
La Frescobaldi
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Default Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated

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Originally Posted by swi7ch
Don't forget Hakeem and Robinson! They were still effective and All-Stars during the Bulls' second 3-peat.

Goes to show how GOAT Jordan really is.


You can equally argue it goes to show how GOAT Rodman really is at defense. Or Pippen.

Jordan threw up desperately all over the 80s as far as rings. He had to have great players around him to do all that.
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Old 11-30-2012, 12:26 PM   #62
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Default Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated

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Originally Posted by rodman91
Bill Russel would be greatest glorified role player too then. If guys like Barkley,Amare,Melo doesn't considered as role players because they can't defend, Rodman & Wallace should not be considered as role players because they can't score.

Ron Harper second threepeat was a great role player. Luc Longley was a role player. Rodman was a star player for the Bulls.

that's exactly right.
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Old 11-30-2012, 12:33 PM   #63
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Default Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated

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Originally Posted by swi7ch
Don't forget Hakeem and Robinson! They were still effective and All-Stars during the Bulls' second 3-peat.

Goes to show how GOAT Jordan really is.

The presence of Hakeem and Robinson does absolutely nothing for Jordan's legacy as he never faced either of them even once in the playoffs. If anything, it actually strengthens the legacy of the other stars such as those who eliminated those two from the playoffs preventing them from making it to the Finals during Jordan's championship runs .
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Old 11-30-2012, 12:46 PM   #64
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Default Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated

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Originally Posted by rodman91
Bill Russel would be greatest glorified role player too then. If guys like Barkley,Amare,Melo doesn't considered as role players because they can't defend, Rodman & Wallace should not be considered as role players because they can't score.

Ron Harper second threepeat was a great role player. Luc Longley was a role player. Rodman was a star player for the Bulls.

Actually, Russell was expected to score and pass as well. He wasn't Wilt or Oscar in that regard, but he wasn't just asked to do basically nothing on offense but offensive rebound like those guys.

We're really just talking about labels. Generally, its those type of players that people call "role players". You can call it whatever you want, but thats what most people call those type of players.
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Old 11-30-2012, 12:54 PM   #65
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Default Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated

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Rodman was a role player even when he was making all-star teams in Detroit. He's arguably the greatest role player ever, but that doesn't mean he wasn't a role player.

There are 3 things basketball requires. Offense, defense, and getting the ball. Dennis is in the discussion for the greatest player to ever do 2 of them. Would I put him over russell? No. Would I say hes flat out miles better than Barkley as a rebounder considering Barkley also had to play offense at a high level? No.

Is it reasonable to bring up Rodmans name in discussion of the best? Yes.

But he does not score. He did however set great screens, is probably the best offensive rebounder ever, could pass, and ran the floor well. He did everything on offense well other than actually put the ball in the basket and dribble.

He did literally everything on defense well other than be a great shot blocker and even that was partly because he was solid off the ball and didnt often allow the penetration that would result in needing toe block a shot....but still.

He did everything else well.

Hes good at most elements of offense, virtually everything you do on a court without scoring, and might be the GOAT rebounder.

So im assuming that to you...the only way to be a star is to dribble and score? No combo of other things one can do is enough...is it?

If all we measure is...what you do without dribbling or shooting...who....ever...is better than Dennis Rodman? Not me saying the answer is nobody...just asking.

Who is it? How many are there?
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Old 11-30-2012, 01:12 PM   #66
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Default Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
There are 3 things basketball requires. Offense, defense, and getting the ball. Dennis is in the discussion for the greatest player to ever do 2 of them. Would I put him over russell? No. Would I say hes flat out miles better than Barkley as a rebounder considering Barkley also had to play offense at a high level? No.

Is it reasonable to bring up Rodmans name in discussion of the best? Yes.

But he does not score. He did however set great screens, is probably the best offensive rebounder ever, could pass, and ran the floor well. He did everything on offense well other than actually put the ball in the basket and dribble.

He did literally everything on defense well other than be a great shot blocker and even that was partly because he was solid off the ball and didnt often allow the penetration that would result in needing toe block a shot....but still.

He did everything else well.

Hes good at most elements of offense, virtually everything you do on a court without scoring, and might be the GOAT rebounder.

So im assuming that to you...the only way to be a star is to dribble and score? No combo of other things one can do is enough...is it?

If all we measure is...what you do without dribbling or shooting...who....ever...is better than Dennis Rodman? Not me saying the answer is nobody...just asking.

Who is it? How many are there?

Well said. I do think that the best offensive rebounder is Moses, but the best rebounder ever is arguably Rodman imo
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Old 11-30-2012, 01:37 PM   #67
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Default Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
There are 3 things basketball requires. Offense, defense, and getting the ball. Dennis is in the discussion for the greatest player to ever do 2 of them. Would I put him over russell? No. Would I say hes flat out miles better than Barkley as a rebounder considering Barkley also had to play offense at a high level? No.

Is it reasonable to bring up Rodmans name in discussion of the best? Yes.

But he does not score. He did however set great screens, is probably the best offensive rebounder ever, could pass, and ran the floor well. He did everything on offense well other than actually put the ball in the basket and dribble.

He did literally everything on defense well other than be a great shot blocker and even that was partly because he was solid off the ball and didnt often allow the penetration that would result in needing toe block a shot....but still.

He did everything else well.

Hes good at most elements of offense, virtually everything you do on a court without scoring, and might be the GOAT rebounder.

So im assuming that to you...the only way to be a star is to dribble and score? No combo of other things one can do is enough...is it?

If all we measure is...what you do without dribbling or shooting...who....ever...is better than Dennis Rodman? Not me saying the answer is nobody...just asking.

Who is it? How many are there?

I agree, and I know it seems as tho some of us are knocking him (I'm not), but when all he does is focus on rebounding his numbers are gonna be higher than somebody that's asked to do other things offensively.

Yes setting screens matter, but after that he positions to 'rebound' and nothing else. When other players set screens, they set them to possibly get the ball to shoot. We've seen Rodman pad his rebounding at least once every single game (often more). Not to say he wouldn't be a great rebounder or that he wasn't, but his stats are somewhat misleading.

There's no doubt that the Bulls don't win without his contributions, I don't think anybody has argued that (not to say you said it). But he wasn't the defensive juggernaut that he was when he was a Piston, and he never LOCKED DOWN anybody like some have even stated.
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Old 11-30-2012, 01:48 PM   #68
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Default Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated

Quote:
Originally Posted by andgar923
I agree, and I know it seems as tho some of us are knocking him (I'm not), but when all he does is focus on rebounding his numbers are gonna be higher than somebody that's asked to do other things offensively.

Yes setting screens matter, but after that he positions to 'rebound' and nothing else. When other players set screens, they set them to possibly get the ball to shoot. We've seen Rodman pad his rebounding at least once every single game (often more). Not to say he wouldn't be a great rebounder or that he wasn't, but his stats are somewhat misleading.

There's no doubt that the Bulls don't win without his contributions, I don't think anybody has argued that (not to say you said it). But he wasn't the defensive juggernaut that he was when he was a Piston, and he never LOCKED DOWN anybody like some have even stated.

He was lock down defender at low post. He wasn't the guy who can also guard perimeter players great like in Pistons but he was still one of the best guys in low post. (He was 34-36 years old at that time.People usually forget his age because he was too energetic & dominant on boards)

I have seen many games he shut down or at least slowed down some of the HOFer big men when he was in Bulls. There are many games on youtube about that.

When he was playing for Lakers & Mavs, he seemed less interested in defense compared to Bulls & Pistons years but rebounding was still there even at 37-38 years old.
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Old 11-30-2012, 01:59 PM   #69
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Default Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated

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Originally Posted by rodman91
He was lock down defender at low post. He wasn't the guy who can also guard perimeter players great like in Pistons but he was still one of the best guys in low post. (He was 34-36 years old at that time.People usually forget his age because he was too energetic & dominant on boards)

I have seen many games he shut down or at least slowed down some of the HOFer big men when he was in Bulls. There are many games on youtube about that.

When he was playing for Lakers & Mavs, he seemed less interested in defense compared to Bulls & Pistons years but rebounding was still there even at 37-38 years old.

No he was NOT a lock down defender in the post. He was 'good-great' at times, but he never locked anybody down. All the good bigs still got theirs, they just had to work a bit harder.

His strength was messing with their psyche, he would annoy and frustrate them, but he wouldn't lock them down.

Unless we have completely different meanings on what 'locking down' is.

To me locking down is, the mufuhka aint scoring on him, and maybe get a rebound or two on him. He did throw them outta their games and comfort zones, but I wouldn't call that locking down. Semantics I agree, but there should be some clarification before shit runs wild.

Honestly, you could've replaced him with another good rebounder/defender. But the Bulls probably don't win 3 in a row. His strengths were his ability to get under people's skin, he was as tough as they ever came and that's something that no stat measures.
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Old 11-30-2012, 02:07 PM   #70
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Default Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated

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Originally Posted by andgar923
To me locking down is, the mufuhka aint scoring on him, and maybe get a rebound or two on him. He did throw them outta their games and comfort zones, but I wouldn't call that locking down. Semantics I agree, but there should be some clarification before shit runs wild.


we're talking about defending patrick ewing, karl malone, shaq, mourning, barkeley, shawn kemp.
going by your definition, nobody locks them down. it never happened.
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Old 11-30-2012, 02:17 PM   #71
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Default Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teanett
we're talking about defending patrick ewing, karl malone, shaq, mourning, barkeley, shawn kemp.
going by your definition, nobody locks them down. it never happened.

I can't recall them per se, but I've seen star players get locked down based on my interoperation. I'm sure there's been times when even they were locked down vs a defender. Remember, Rodman or said defender doesn't defend them all game every possession. It is very feasible for a defender to lock somebody down.
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Old 11-30-2012, 02:24 PM   #72
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Default Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated

Quote:
Originally Posted by andgar923
No he was NOT a lock down defender in the post. He was 'good-great' at times, but he never locked anybody down. All the good bigs still got theirs, they just had to work a bit harder.

His strength was messing with their psyche, he would annoy and frustrate them, but he wouldn't lock them down.

Unless we have completely different meanings on what 'locking down' is.

To me locking down is, the mufuhka aint scoring on him, and maybe get a rebound or two on him. He did throw them outta their games and comfort zones, but I wouldn't call that locking down. Semantics I agree, but there should be some clarification before shit runs wild.

Honestly, you could've replaced him with another good rebounder/defender. But the Bulls probably don't win 3 in a row. His strengths were his ability to get under people's skin, he was as tough as they ever came and that's something that no stat measures.

He slowed down Shaq in playoffs, locked down malone most of the series in finals. There are regular season games where he locked down Shaq & Hakeem in 4th quarter etc.

I don't know what do you mean with not allowed to score at all or giving a rebound as being a lock down defender.. Nobody can do that entire game in NBA history against HOFers.
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Old 11-30-2012, 03:12 PM   #73
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Default Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated

Why do Jordan stans slight alltime greats ( Rodman was the greatest defender /rebouder /energy guy of his generation) to prop up MJ???


silly...
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Old 11-30-2012, 03:14 PM   #74
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Default Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated

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Originally Posted by AlphaWolf24
Why do Jordan stans slight alltime greats ( Rodman was the greatest defender /rebouder /energy guy of his generation) to prop up MJ???


silly...

You just answered your own question.
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Old 11-30-2012, 03:23 PM   #75
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Default Re: Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated

Just so everyone is clear, "role player" is code for any player who doesn't provide volume scoring.

(Note that no one would ever a call a player who only volume scored and did absolutely nothing else of worth on a basketball court a "role player.")
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