Dennis Rodman on the 2nd three-peat Bulls was so overrated

[fpliii]

Originally Posted by ThaRegul8r

Just so everyone is clear, "role player" is code for any player who doesn't provide volume scoring.

(Note that no one would ever a call a player who only volume scored and did absolutely nothing else of worth on a basketball court a "role player.")

Pretty much, according to the opinions voiced in this thread...

[Psileas]

Originally Posted by ThaRegul8r

Just so everyone is clear, "role player" is code for any player who doesn't provide volume scoring.

(Note that no one would ever a call a player who only volume scored and did absolutely nothing else of worth on a basketball court a "role player.")

Just when I was ready to mention Reggie Miller...And Rodman was a greater rebounder than Miller was a scorer, and he actually did a second thing great, play interior defense.

[Legends66NBA7]

Originally Posted by Psileas

Just when I was ready to mention Reggie Miller...And Rodman was a greater rebounder than Miller was a scorer, and he actually did a second thing great, play interior defense.

Not to mention, his passing/facilitating is pretty underrated too.

[La Frescobaldi]

Originally Posted by Legends66NBA7

Not to mention, his passing/facilitating is pretty underrated too.

Rodman in transition game was just.... Glory Be

[jlip]

There was just way too much logic in these last few posts.

[Kblaze8855]

Originally Posted by andgar923

I agree, and I know it seems as tho some of us are knocking him (I'm not), but when all he does is focus on rebounding his numbers are gonna be higher than somebody that's asked to do other things offensively.

Yes setting screens matter, but after that he positions to 'rebound' and nothing else. When other players set screens, they set them to possibly get the ball to shoot. We've seen Rodman pad his rebounding at least once every single game (often more). Not to say he wouldn't be a great rebounder or that he wasn't, but his stats are somewhat misleading.

There's no doubt that the Bulls don't win without his contributions, I don't think anybody has argued that (not to say you said it). But he wasn't the defensive juggernaut that he was when he was a Piston, and he never LOCKED DOWN anybody like some have even stated.

Question...who...and I mean ever..."locks down" bigtime scorers who are bigmen?

Maybe Wilt when he was really up for a matchup?

Lets say from 75-now. Who ever just...locked down the Shaqs, Malones, Barkleys, Robinsons, Mchales, and so on?

Rodman(like a few others) got as close as can be expected but he didnt stop them...and it wasnt expected. A great one on one defender in the frontcourt isnt supposed to harrass a guy into a 6-19 shooting night like say...Gary Payton might to a point guard.

Rodman was the NBA version of a great man to man corner in the NFL. Hes not great because he can keep an all time great from a catch. Hes great because he can guard an all time great by himself and not allow that players presence to benefit his teammates as much as usual.

Hes not gonna stop Shaq. Or Malone. Or Barkley. Hes gonna get up for the matchup and guard them hard and get in their heads and kick and brawl and whatever he has to do. But he makes it personal. And that is the key.

When you dont have to collapse into the paint to keep a guy from dropping 40 he has to beat you himself because his teammates arent used to picking up the slack when they arent getting the open looks generated by having to rotate after a double team.

Karl can drop 40...Dennis can hold him to 20...or less. hes done both. But Dennis will not need help. If Karl drops 40 its a "Nothing you can do" 40. A jumper 40. A "Well...if hes gonna make that...." 40. Not a abusing the defender for easy looks 40.

And there is a difference.

Dennis did exactly what he was supposed to do. Not just...shut a guy down. That would be nice....but bigmen arent really shut down. They are bothered. And their impact can be minimized. He did both at an all time great level.

[Kblaze8855]

Oh and im reminded of one of my favorite plays of the 90s. Shaq had Dennis one on one. Kinda deep position. Shaq goes to his "black tornado" move as he came to call it. He spins...Dennis is still right in his face. Shaq looks a bit puzzled and just shoots what I guess id call a floater. And really I dont remember if it went in or not. It may well have. But watching him go to his trademark mega dropstep and have Dennis take it on the chest and not budge...and see him so thrown off he just gently lobs the ball in the general direction of the basket?

Its not like Dennis was strong enough to just oppose Shaq. He kinda..rolled with the punch so to speak. Shaq spins off and ends up right in front of Dennis...with no idea what to do.

As a lover of defense...that was beautiful. The footwork...the strength. The poise. 90% of guys go flying. Dennis is like 230 pounds...and he doesnt move an inch.

Shaq probably had his usual 25-30....but Dennis did what he always does. Find your comfort zone and fight you for it.

All you ask of a defender around the basket.

[DatAsh]

Originally Posted by AlphaWolf24

Why do Jordan stans slight alltime greats ( Rodman was the greatest defender /rebouder /energy guy of his generation) to prop up MJ???


silly...

It' for the same reason that you and other Kobe fans slight Shaq/Gasol/Odom. They're trying to push an agenda.

[andgar923]

Originally Posted by Kblaze8855

Question...who...and I mean ever..."locks down" bigtime scorers who are bigmen?

Maybe Wilt when he was really up for a matchup?

Lets say from 75-now. Who ever just...locked down the Shaqs, Malones, Barkleys, Robinsons, Mchales, and so on?

Rodman(like a few others) got as close as can be expected but he didnt stop them...and it wasnt expected. A great one on one defender in the frontcourt isnt supposed to harrass a guy into a 6-19 shooting night like say...Gary Payton might to a point guard.

Rodman was the NBA version of a great man to man corner in the NFL. Hes not great because he can keep an all time great from a catch. Hes great because he can guard an all time great by himself and not allow that players presence to benefit his teammates as much as usual.

Hes not gonna stop Shaq. Or Malone. Or Barkley. Hes gonna get up for the matchup and guard them hard and get in their heads and kick and brawl and whatever he has to do. But he makes it personal. And that is the key.

When you dont have to collapse into the paint to keep a guy from dropping 40 he has to beat you himself because his teammates arent used to picking up the slack when they arent getting the open looks generated by having to rotate after a double team.

Karl can drop 40...Dennis can hold him to 20...or less. hes done both. But Dennis will not need help. If Karl drops 40 its a "Nothing you can do" 40. A jumper 40. A "Well...if hes gonna make that...." 40. Not a abusing the defender for easy looks 40.

And there is a difference.

Dennis did exactly what he was supposed to do. Not just...shut a guy down. That would be nice....but bigmen arent really shut down. They are bothered. And their impact can be minimized. He did both at an all time great level.

I never said he locked down people tho.

I basically echoed some of the same sentiments you and others have stated regarding his impact and his defense.

[LBJFTW]

The most most distinguished trait of Rodman is that he simply did what he was asked to do. On the pistons he was asked to be a lock down defender. With the Bulls he was asked to focus on rebounds. He trusted his coaches decisions based on who his teammates were and molded his game into what his TEAM at the time needed. Had he been asked to be a 3 point specialist or a swing-man, he would have undoubtedly been successful if that is what was asked and required of him. He was just that physically gifted and motivated to achieve whatever.

[DatAsh]

Originally Posted by Kblaze8855

Question...who...and I mean ever..."locks down" bigtime scorers who are bigmen?

Maybe Wilt when he was really up for a matchup?

Going by that definition, no one in the history of the game is a lock-down defender, not even Russell.

Wilt had plenty of huge games against Russell, as did Kareem against Wilt.

[Duncan21formvp]

Originally Posted by ThaRegul8r

Just so everyone is clear, "role player" is code for any player who doesn't provide volume scoring.

(Note that no one would ever a call a player who only volume scored and did absolutely nothing else of worth on a basketball court a "role player.")

Wouldn't say that. I would say more so a guy who doesn't make the allstar team is a role player.

[DatAsh]

Originally Posted by Kblaze8855

Oh and im reminded of one of my favorite plays of the 90s. Shaq had Dennis one on one. Kinda deep position. Shaq goes to his "black tornado" move as he came to call it. He spins...Dennis is still right in his face. Shaq looks a bit puzzled and just shoots what I guess id call a floater. And really I dont remember if it went in or not. It may well have. But watching him go to his trademark mega dropstep and have Dennis take it on the chest and not budge...and see him so thrown off he just gently lobs the ball in the general direction of the basket?

Its not like Dennis was strong enough to just oppose Shaq. He kinda..rolled with the punch so to speak. Shaq spins off and ends up right in front of Dennis...with no idea what to do.

As a lover of defense...that was beautiful. The footwork...the strength. The poise. 90% of guys go flying. Dennis is like 230 pounds...and he doesnt move an inch.

Shaq probably had his usual 25-30....but Dennis did what he always does. Find your comfort zone and fight you for it.

All you ask of a defender around the basket.

Do you by chance remember what game that was?

[TheFan]

Bulls - Rodman = falling to teams with muscle on the paint... watch 95 playoff series vs the Magic for an example.

[Kblaze8855]

Originally Posted by DatAsh

Going by that definition, no one in the history of the game is a lock-down defender, not even Russell.

Wilt had plenty of huge games against Russell, as did Kareem against Wilt.

that's the whole point. you don't shut down a great player who plays 8 feet from the basket. You just bother him.