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Old 12-03-2012, 09:21 PM   #16
DonDadda59
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Default Re: GOP's counter offer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MMM
if they do go over the cliff, can't obama rates be reintroduced and passed???

Yes, which is why any offer that doesn't have the top tax rates increasing is an exercise in futility. There won't be a deal without the top 2%'s Bush tax vacation ending. The GOP knows this, regardless of any random, unexplained numbers being thrown around- there is no deal without that provision, both Obama and Geithner have made that crystal clear.
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Old 12-03-2012, 11:27 PM   #17
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Default Re: GOP's counter offer.

Thttp://news.yahoo.com/republican-doomsday-plan-cave-taxes-vote-present-143948062--abc-news-politics.html

Thought it was a clever tactic on the GOP's part.

Quote:
Republicans are seriously considering a Doomsday Plan if fiscal cliff talks collapse entirely. It's quite simple: House Republicans would allow a vote on extending the Bush middle class tax cuts (the bill passed in August by the Senate) and offer the President nothing more: no extension of the debt ceiling, nothing on unemployment, nothing on closing loopholes. Congress would recess for the holidays and the president would face a big battle early in the year over the debt ceiling.


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By doing this, Republicans avoid taking blame for tax increases on 98 percent of income tax payers. As one senior Republican in Congress told me, "You don't take a hostage you aren't willing to shoot." Republicans aren't willing to kill the middle class tax cuts, even if extending them alone will make it harder to later extend tax cuts on the wealthy.
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Still unclear under this plan is what would happen to the automatic defense cuts - " sequestration" - scheduled to go into effect on January 1 without a deficit deal.
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Old 12-04-2012, 12:39 AM   #18
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Default Re: GOP's counter offer.

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Originally Posted by longhornfan1234

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By doing this, Republicans will ensure that 2014 will be the death knell of their party for a generation.

Fixed it for ya. They would just be playing into the President's plan that he's been calling for all along- the House votes on and passes the Senate Bill extending the tax cuts for 98% and then they discuss a deal to avoid the sequester. If the House Republicans pass the Senate bill and then go back to what they've been doing for years and act as the party of 'no' and make it clear they have no intention of reaching a bargain, you think the public will be cool with this?

That is as ill-conceived an idea as there is. Not that it matters since Boehner will never break away from Norquist's leash. So either way, the GOP is just signing their own death certificate. Best case scenario is for them to admit they are holding a losing hand and their bluffs have not and will not work. Work out a deal that has the White House offer as a base, accept the tax provisions and try to get something out of the spending/entitlement side of the equation.
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Old 12-04-2012, 01:00 AM   #19
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Default Re: GOP's counter offer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MMM
if they do go over the cliff, can't obama rates be reintroduced and passed???
lets be clear. These are not obama's rates. They are the rates in place before the "temporary" tax cuts under bush. That is what is so ridiculous about this. Those rates were never intended to be long term. They were renewed at least once and now it is time for them to expire. Frankly, all of them. Not just the ones on the wealthy, etc. All of the bush tax cuts need to expire for our country to even come close to getting back towards a fiscally secure expenditure rate.


The cliff will lead to a substantial increase in revenue and cuts across most of our bloated programs (including the DOD, which probably wont be touched in a compromise, despite bob gates' statements a year or so ago). **** these ****ety ****s up in washington. They made this cliff by kicking this shit down the road rather than governing. **** them
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Old 12-04-2012, 01:12 AM   #20
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Default Re: GOP's counter offer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boozehound
lets be clear. These are not obama's rates. They are the rates in place before the "temporary" tax cuts under bush. That is what is so ridiculous about this. Those rates were never intended to be long term. They were renewed at least once and now it is time for them to expire. Frankly, all of them. Not just the ones on the wealthy, etc. All of the bush tax cuts need to expire for our country to even come close to getting back towards a fiscally secure expenditure rate.


The cliff will lead to a substantial increase in revenue and cuts across most of our bloated programs (including the DOD, which probably wont be touched in a compromise, despite bob gates' statements a year or so ago). **** these ****ety ****s up in washington. They made this cliff by kicking this shit down the road rather than governing. **** them

Yeah, delaying policy decisions by creating a disaster deadline that will hopefully force a decision at some point in the future is embarassingly bad governance.
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Old 12-04-2012, 05:03 PM   #21
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Default Re: GOP's counter offer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonDadda59
Fixed it for ya. They would just be playing into the President's plan that he's been calling for all along- the House votes on and passes the Senate Bill extending the tax cuts for 98% and then they discuss a deal to avoid the sequester. If the House Republicans pass the Senate bill and then go back to what they've been doing for years and act as the party of 'no' and make it clear they have no intention of reaching a bargain, you think the public will be cool with this?

That is as ill-conceived an idea as there is. Not that it matters since Boehner will never break away from Norquist's leash. So either way, the GOP is just signing their own death certificate. Best case scenario is for them to admit they are holding a losing hand and their bluffs have not and will not work. Work out a deal that has the White House offer as a base, accept the tax provisions and try to get something out of the spending/entitlement side of the equation.

You really think that one party should capitulate to another's ridiculous demands? If the US public thinks that the Republicans are the party of No, then they are seriously not considering how ridiculous the president's plan is. Just raising taxes doesn't help, it needs to be balanced, and needs to strike at what the core of the problem is, wasteful, extravagant spending. Does that mean cutting military? Yes, to some extent. Does that mean cutting entitlements? Yes, to some extent (if only because Democrats won't accept too much cuts, just as Republicans won't accept too much cut off the military). Who is really the party of No, not budging from a point that doesn't have as much of an impact upon the debt as spending does?
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Old 12-04-2012, 05:11 PM   #22
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Default Re: GOP's counter offer.

Republicans not interested in closing tax loopholes. Big shocker there.
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Old 12-04-2012, 05:27 PM   #23
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Default Re: GOP's counter offer.

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Originally Posted by bdreason
Republicans not interested in closing tax loopholes. Big shocker there.

What do you think tax reform means?
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Old 12-04-2012, 05:27 PM   #24
DonDadda59
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Default Re: GOP's counter offer.

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Originally Posted by Math2
If the US public thinks that the Republicans are the party of No, then they are seriously not considering how ridiculous the president's plan is.

Or maybe they know that Grover Norquist is willing to let the country be dragged into a deep recession solely to preserve the tax holiday for people who don't need it. They will hold Norquist's manservant Boehner and his party responsible if that happens:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/page/2...eKKXEc3l75gLA#

All the Pubs have done is repackage the Simpson-Bowles deal, which Bowles has since dismissed:
Erskine Bowles says Boehner’s plan is not his plan: “While I’m flattered the Speaker would call something ‘the Bowles plan,’ the approach outlined in the letter Speaker Boehner sent to the President does not represent the Simpson-Bowles plan, nor is it the Bowles plan. In my testimony before the Joint Select Committee on Deficit Reduction, I simply took the mid-point of the public offers put forward during the negotiations to demonstrate where I thought a deal could be reached at that time. The Joint Select Committee failed to reach a deal, and circumstances have changed since then. It is up to negotiators to figure out where the middle ground is today.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...impson-bowles/
The GOP knows what it will take to get a deal done. The President has spoken, and the people have made their will clear. If Boehner stays on Norquist's leash, then the GOP can say bye bye to having any sort of political clout or leverage for some years following 2014.
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Old 12-04-2012, 05:55 PM   #25
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Default Re: GOP's counter offer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonDadda59
Or maybe they know that Grover Norquist is willing to let the country be dragged into a deep recession solely to preserve the tax holiday for people who don't need it. They will hold Norquist's manservant Boehner and his party responsible if that happens:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/page/2...eKKXEc3l75gLA#

All the Pubs have done is repackage the Simpson-Bowles deal, which Bowles has since dismissed:
Erskine Bowles says Boehner’s plan is not his plan: “While I’m flattered the Speaker would call something ‘the Bowles plan,’ the approach outlined in the letter Speaker Boehner sent to the President does not represent the Simpson-Bowles plan, nor is it the Bowles plan. In my testimony before the Joint Select Committee on Deficit Reduction, I simply took the mid-point of the public offers put forward during the negotiations to demonstrate where I thought a deal could be reached at that time. The Joint Select Committee failed to reach a deal, and circumstances have changed since then. It is up to negotiators to figure out where the middle ground is today.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...impson-bowles/
The GOP knows what it will take to get a deal done. The President has spoken, and the people have made their will clear. If Boehner stays on Norquist's leash, then the GOP can say bye bye to having any sort of political clout or leverage for some years following 2014.

Mhm. I wasn't aware that the Democrats controlled everything. The people have spoken? Then why do the Republicans control the House?

What Obama's proposing is to basically try to break the Republican parties back. And that's it.
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Old 12-04-2012, 06:00 PM   #26
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Default Re: GOP's counter offer.

The worst part of the fiscal cliff BS is that the two sides haven't even made it past the first stage of negotiation yet. Neither sides initial proposals will be passed but they at least need to starting point to negotiations. The problem with the GOP counter is that it is so vague. At least Obama laid out some specifics that can serve as a base of negotiation.

Of course we all feed the BS circus atmosphere by eating up the political granstanding which allows them to essentially sit back and accomplish nothing.
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Old 12-04-2012, 06:05 PM   #27
DonDadda59
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Default Re: GOP's counter offer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Math2
Mhm. I wasn't aware that the Democrats controlled everything.

They don't, not yet at least.

Quote:
The people have spoken? Then why do the Republicans control the House?

Just wait.

Quote:
What Obama's proposing is to basically try to break the Republican parties back. And that's it.

And they can easily counteract that, but that would involve disobeying massa Norquist. Those with 'impure' thoughts will eventually go grovelling back to him, begging him for forgiveness like my main man Saxby
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Old 12-04-2012, 06:46 PM   #28
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Default Re: GOP's counter offer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonDadda59
They don't, not yet at least.



Just wait.



And they can easily counteract that, but that would involve disobeying massa Norquist. Those with 'impure' thoughts will eventually go grovelling back to him, begging him for forgiveness like my main man Saxby


Trust me, the south will always vote for the guy with the (R). Look at South Carolina's crazy ass governor likewise out west with Arizona going red again. Here in Tennessee they actually voted for a guy who forced his MISTRESS to have an...ABORTION, and the election wasn't even close.

Sure Florida will go blue again, and Ohio I guess which would keep the Dems in power with the Senate (most likely) and whoever we run in 2016, but Bibleland will vote R every time.
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Old 12-04-2012, 07:06 PM   #29
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Default Re: GOP's counter offer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jailblazers7
The worst part of the fiscal cliff BS is that the two sides haven't even made it past the first stage of negotiation yet. Neither sides initial proposals will be passed but they at least need to starting point to negotiations. The problem with the GOP counter is that it is so vague. At least Obama laid out some specifics that can serve as a base of negotiation.

Of course we all feed the BS circus atmosphere by eating up the political granstanding which allows them to essentially sit back and accomplish nothing.

And it's not at all Obama's fault for not pushing us past the first stage? He cared more about being reelected than he did about Beghazi, or the fiscal cliff.
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Old 12-04-2012, 07:08 PM   #30
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Default Re: GOP's counter offer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonDadda59
They don't, not yet at least.



Just wait.



And they can easily counteract that, but that would involve disobeying massa Norquist. Those with 'impure' thoughts will eventually go grovelling back to him, begging him for forgiveness like my main man Saxby

Obama's thoughts could be said the same about Social Security. He won't touch that, wheareas he's trying to force the GOP to try to back down on their key issue. Compromise? That's campaign bullshit.
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