Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > InsideHoops Main Basketball Forums > NBA Forum

NBA Forum NBA Message Board - NBA Fan Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-05-2012, 02:22 PM   #16
Nero Tulip
Local High School Star
 
Nero Tulip's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,286
Default Re: Problem with Kobe is not his offense, it's his defense

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. I'm So Rad
Why is it literally impossible to have a reasonable discussion on ISH about Kobe Bryant?

Why is it impossible to have a reasonable discussion on ISH about anything else?
Nero Tulip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 02:28 PM   #17
no pun intended
Mozart Basketball
 
no pun intended's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 6,723
Default Re: Problem with Kobe is not his offense, it's his defense

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. I'm So Rad
Why is it literally impossible to have a reasonable discussion on ISH about Kobe Bryant?
The same reason why it is literally impossible to have a reasonable discussion about God.
no pun intended is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 02:53 PM   #18
AlphaWolf24
Bringer of Rain
 
AlphaWolf24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 8,521
Default Re: Problem with Kobe is not his offense, it's his defense

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nero Tulip
Whether you talk about offense or defense, the problem with Kobe is the same: he is really stupid.

Look, he's actually a more than capable on-ball defender when he has to. It's just all the mistakes, forgetting his man, helping at the wrong time... he just looks completely lost at times.

Same thing with offense, obviously he has talent, but did no one really tell him that "3 pump fakes into a contested long fadeway 2 pointer" is a shot you shouldn't take?

I think other than Phil Jackson he's been surrounded by people that don't have the balls to tell him he's wrong, and now he thinks he knows better. Any knowledgeable fan will tell you this guy has horrible IQ, and has always had...




seriously...I chuckled.
AlphaWolf24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 02:56 PM   #19
RoundMoundOfReb
Objective Poster
 
RoundMoundOfReb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 10,940
Default Re: Problem with Kobe is not his offense, it's his defense

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nero Tulip
Whether you talk about offense or defense, the problem with Kobe is the same: he is really stupid.

Look, he's actually a more than capable on-ball defender when he has to. It's just all the mistakes, forgetting his man, helping at the wrong time... he just looks completely lost at times.

Same thing with offense, obviously he has talent, but did no one really tell him that "3 pump fakes into a contested long fadeway 2 pointer" is a shot you shouldn't take?

I think other than Phil Jackson he's been surrounded by people that don't have the balls to tell him he's wrong, and now he thinks he knows better. Any knowledgeable fan will tell you this guy has horrible IQ, and has always had...

you don't become an elite player in the nba by being an idiot. sure relative to guys like jordan/bird/lebron etc he might have lower bball iq but i think saying he has "horrible iq" is not fair.
RoundMoundOfReb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 03:06 PM   #20
Segatti
Good High School Starter
 
Segatti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 933
Default Re: Problem with Kobe is not his offense, it's his defense

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaWolf24
this fool..


at least back your worthless opinion up with something........

- Kobe's defensive numbers...

oppFG%: 44.4%
oppPER: 10.3

That's opponet FG% and opponent PER (what he allows per 48-minute production), by the way...for those who aren't familiar with the advanced stats.

LeBron James: 50.3%, 19.9
Tony Allen: 44.5%, 13.1
Ron Artest: 51.6%, 13.8
Rajon Rondo: 50.6%, 15.8
Arron Afflalo: 50%, 12.1
Andre Iguodala: 46.2%, 10.2
Luol Deng: 46.1%, 10.8

Kobe's defense isn't what it once was ( wich was arguably the best perimeter defender in the L)..but he is still a top shelf defender.

- and the Lakers are top ten (6th) in defending the three-point line, holding teams to 33.3% shooting from there.

- He's doing all this...while still having to run the offense and score.

Actually watching the games >>>> stats
Segatti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 03:08 PM   #21
RoundMoundOfReb
Objective Poster
 
RoundMoundOfReb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 10,940
Default Re: Problem with Kobe is not his offense, it's his defense

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaWolf24
this fool..


at least back your worthless opinion up with something........

- Kobe's defensive numbers...

oppFG%: 44.4%
oppPER: 10.3

That's opponet FG% and opponent PER (what he allows per 48-minute production), by the way...for those who aren't familiar with the advanced stats.

LeBron James: 50.3%, 19.9
Tony Allen: 44.5%, 13.1
Ron Artest: 51.6%, 13.8
Rajon Rondo: 50.6%, 15.8
Arron Afflalo: 50%, 12.1
Andre Iguodala: 46.2%, 10.2
Luol Deng: 46.1%, 10.8

Kobe's defense isn't what it once was ( wich was arguably the best perimeter defender in the L)..but he is still a top shelf defender.

- and the Lakers are top ten (6th) in defending the three-point line, holding teams to 33.3% shooting from there.

- He's doing all this...while still having to run the offense and score.



why do kobe stans only use per when it's convenient? either it means something or it doesn't. make up your mind.
RoundMoundOfReb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 03:10 PM   #22
AlphaWolf24
Bringer of Rain
 
AlphaWolf24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 8,521
Default Re: Problem with Kobe is not his offense, it's his defense

Quote:
Originally Posted by Segatti
Actually watching the games >>>> stats


watch the games then...

- Kobe is assigned roaming duties because he's one of the smartest defensive players in the NBA.



- For those who are saying Kobe is a bad defender, you aren't watching the entire time. One or two slips, the one time he doesn't close out and he gives up a three...and suddenly, you're set.

- If Kobe played anywhere near as bad as the haterz say.... Lakers would most definitely not be top ten in defense this season (as they are right now), and Kobe wouldn't be putting up those standout defensive numbers that are quite hard to argue against.
AlphaWolf24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 03:13 PM   #23
AlphaWolf24
Bringer of Rain
 
AlphaWolf24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 8,521
Default Re: Problem with Kobe is not his offense, it's his defense

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundMoundOfReb
why do kobe stans only use per when it's convenient? either it means something or it doesn't. make up your mind.


- It doesn't prove anything....

- either does hating a player and giving your garbage opinion....especially when you don't even try to back it up.

- that was all I was saying..

- 17 years and dey still MAD

- keep it up GawdBE
AlphaWolf24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 03:19 PM   #24
Nero Tulip
Local High School Star
 
Nero Tulip's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,286
Default Re: Problem with Kobe is not his offense, it's his defense

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundMoundOfReb
you don't become an elite player in the nba by being an idiot. sure relative to guys like jordan/bird/lebron etc he might have lower bball iq but i think saying he has "horrible iq" is not fair.

OK, maybe it's not fair. Another way to say it would be "people have let him do stupid things all his career and his decision making has suffered greatly for it". How fair is that?

I don't think D'Antoni will tell him to work on his defensive rotations. I don't think Mike Brown told him to take better shots. I think Jackson was the only one who could coach him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaWolf24

seriously...I chuckled.

...because you're a biased fan who doesn't know or care much about the game. Seriously... I don't care.
Nero Tulip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 03:19 PM   #25
HorryIsMyMVP
Good college starter
 
HorryIsMyMVP's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,461
Default Re: Problem with Kobe is not his offense, it's his defense

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaWolf24
- It doesn't prove anything....

- either does hating a player and giving your garbage opinion....especially when you don't even try to back it up.

- that was all I was saying..

- 17 years and dey still MAD

- keep it up GawdBE
I still think Lakers would trade Kobe if he didn't have that no trade clause. They are just forced to put up with his bs.
HorryIsMyMVP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 03:20 PM   #26
tmacattack33
NBA rookie of the year
 
tmacattack33's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 6,322
Default Re: Problem with Kobe is not his offense, it's his defense

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaWolf24
watch the games then...

- Kobe is assigned roaming duties because he's one of the smartest defensive players in the NBA.



- For those who are saying Kobe is a bad defender, you aren't watching the entire time. One or two slips, the one time he doesn't close out and he gives up a three...and suddenly, you're set.

- If Kobe played anywhere near as bad as the haterz say.... Lakers would most definitely not be top ten in defense this season (as they are right now), and Kobe wouldn't be putting up those standout defensive numbers that are quite hard to argue against.

Those numbers are not hard to argue against at all.

All they account for is how the opposing team's SG plays in terms of stats.

What those stats don't show are what happens on rotation, or a pick and roll, or any time that the defense is not guarding exactly the opposite person in the box score (which happens about every other play in the NBA).

Those stats are very basic. They aren't done by some people watching the game who note down who Kobe guards on each play. They just take the opposite player in the box score, and take his stats, regardless of whether Kobe was actually guarding him or not.


Furthermore, PER involves a players defensive stats and their defensive rebounding stats...how does that have anything to do with Kobe's defense?

Last edited by tmacattack33 : 12-05-2012 at 03:23 PM.
tmacattack33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 03:23 PM   #27
Doranku
NBA sixth man of the year
 
Doranku's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 7,835
Default Re: Problem with Kobe is not his offense, it's his defense

Why is Kobe the one being called out for this? Pau and Dwight (yes, Dwight) have been horrible on defense too.

The difference? Kobe isn't playing like a scared b!tch like Pau and he's not missing 40 FTs a game like Dwight. Yet here we are talking about Kobe because of f@ggots like the OP out there who act as if Kobe killed their families in front of them.

SMH.
Doranku is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 03:23 PM   #28
AlphaWolf24
Bringer of Rain
 
AlphaWolf24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 8,521
Default Re: Problem with Kobe is not his offense, it's his defense

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nero Tulip
OK, maybe it's not fair. Another way to say it would be "people have let him do stupid things all his career and his decision making has suffered greatly for it". How fair is that?

I don't think D'Antoni will tell him to work on his defensive rotations. I don't think Mike Brown told him to take better shots. I think Jackson was the only one who could coach him.



...because you're a biased fan who doesn't know or care much about the game. Seriously... I don't care.


- How am I biased...because I don't think Kobe is a bad defender??...with terrible basketball IQ???


- you are the one calling one of the greatest Players/scorers/defenders/champions of alltime "stupid" ( playing stupid)

- Do you know what you sound like?.....Go away kid.


next
AlphaWolf24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 03:25 PM   #29
Nero Tulip
Local High School Star
 
Nero Tulip's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,286
Default Re: Problem with Kobe is not his offense, it's his defense

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaWolf24
- How am I biased...because I don't think Kobe is a bad defender??...with terrible basketball IQ???


- you are the one calling one of the greatest Players/scorers/defenders/champions of alltime "stupid" ( playing stupid)

- Do you know what you sound like?.....Go away kid.


next



I'm the one being reasonable... you're the biased moron with a Kobe avatar who keeps refreshing this topic and wrote half of this thread

... do you know what you sound like?

Keep falling back on "b-b-b-b-but... he's a legend!" and ignore the facts all you want. Not gonna convince a fanatic.
Nero Tulip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 03:26 PM   #30
AlphaWolf24
Bringer of Rain
 
AlphaWolf24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 8,521
Default Re: Problem with Kobe is not his offense, it's his defense

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmacattack33
Those numbers are not hard to argue against at all.

All they account for is how the opposing team's SG plays in terms of stats.

What those stats don't show are what happens on rotation, or a pick and roll, or any time that the defense is not guarding exactly the opposite person in the box score (which happens about every other play in the NBA).

Those stats are very basic. They aren't done by some people watching the game who note down who Kobe guards on each play. They just take the opposite player in the box score, and take his stats, regardless of whether Kobe was actually guarding him or not.


Furthermore, PER involves a players defensive stats and their defensive rebounding stats...how does that have anything to do with Kobe's defense?


ok....

so please give us the play by play of every time Kobe has to hedge or fight through a screen....

I can't wait....( PS I watch all the games....your points will still show Kobe playing great defense)
AlphaWolf24 is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:11 PM.




NBA Basketball Forum Key Links:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
NBA Mock Draft
NBA Free Agents
All-Star Weekend
---
High School Basketball
Streetball
---
InsideHoops Twitter
Search Our Site













Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy