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Old 12-05-2012, 03:34 PM   #16
Droid101
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Default Re: If Republicans soften the immigration message, is it over for Democrats?

Quote:
Originally Posted by longhornfan1234
Latinos: ideology

54% conservative

39% liberal

I saw this on MSNBC today.

If Republicans soften the immigration message, I think Democrats are done.

Thoughts?
Nope. It's going to get ugly, fast. I saw this on another site, and sums it up quite nicely:


The modern GOP was a hideous chimera, a coalition forged 30 years ago as an unholy alliance between three separate factions:

1. The Religious Right. Those Christian fundamentalists who want an Evangelical Christian theocracy in the USA. They want Islam banned, and Christianity as the state religion of the USA. Banning abortion is priority #1 for these people as an ideological litmus test and a first step in their plan. Remember the book the Handmaid's Tale? Yeah, that's what these folks really want.

2. The Pseudo-Libertarians/Pseudo-Objectivists: Two somewhat overlapping factions I'm listing as one because they're so similar. They want the Federal government virtually dismantled. They want everything privatized, and Federal taxes virtually eliminated. Some do it out of pure ideological worship of Ayn Rand, others do it out of this idea that "Big Government" is somehow inherently evil. They want lower taxes, fewer/no regulations, and much smaller government, either so their own companies can make big profits or so they can live their lives without having anybody tell them what to do.

3. Warhawks. More like chickenhawks. They are built on the idea that aggressive foreign policy, zealous patriotism and blind loyalty to the stars and stripes is the way to go. Wave the flag and play some Lee Greenwood music and they'll do whatever you say as long as it involves blowing up brown people. Most of them have never served, even if many of them had the chance. They'll go along with anything if they think it involves blowing up Muslims, distrusting Mexicans and talking about how great America is. They are deathly afraid of "communism" and "socialism" since they grew up in the Cold War and were indoctrinated to think of those ideas as the enemy, to be destroyed at all costs.

The GOP is these three factions fused together, and they've been welded together since the early 80's.

The strain started showing a few years ago, but this election seems to have finally reached a critical point.

Yeah, the Republican Civil War has begun. The Religious Right is accusing everyone else of not being ideologically pure enough and saying that if they'd stuck to their dogma they would have won. The Pseudo-Libertarians are furious at the very idea of anybody raising taxes to compromise. The Warhawks are in a froth that the Muslim Usurper got re-elected and thinking it's all but a Red Dawn scenario where they assume that the US is about to become a communist state.

Each faction is blaming the other two for failure. None have enough people to win. The election showed that even together they don't have enough anymore. They'll fight amongst each other. Groups will get marginalized, groups will get discredited. I'm seeing a possible splintering of the party into two parties, or a substantial third party emerging and becoming marginalized. It will NOT be quick, or pretty.
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Old 12-05-2012, 03:37 PM   #17
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Default Re: If Republicans soften the immigration message, is it over for Democrats?

Latinos are no different than many blacks and whites. We're conservative on some issues and liberal on others. It's just that the GOP proposes shit that's crazy and at times racist. They rarely want a middle of the road approach and instead let their far right base influence their proposals.

Latinos don't simply vote Democratic due to their immigration stance, they vote Deemocratic because they're the most sane of the two.

They also appear to be a TRUE party of inclusion and not a bunch of fake peddling politicians.
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Old 12-05-2012, 03:42 PM   #18
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Default Re: If Republicans soften the immigration message, is it over for Democrats?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Droid101
Nope. It's going to get ugly, fast. I saw this on another site, and sums it up quite nicely:


The modern GOP was a hideous chimera, a coalition forged 30 years ago as an unholy alliance between three separate factions:

1. The Religious Right. Those Christian fundamentalists who want an Evangelical Christian theocracy in the USA. They want Islam banned, and Christianity as the state religion of the USA. Banning abortion is priority #1 for these people as an ideological litmus test and a first step in their plan. Remember the book the Handmaid's Tale? Yeah, that's what these folks really want.

2. The Pseudo-Libertarians/Pseudo-Objectivists: Two somewhat overlapping factions I'm listing as one because they're so similar. They want the Federal government virtually dismantled. They want everything privatized, and Federal taxes virtually eliminated. Some do it out of pure ideological worship of Ayn Rand, others do it out of this idea that "Big Government" is somehow inherently evil. They want lower taxes, fewer/no regulations, and much smaller government, either so their own companies can make big profits or so they can live their lives without having anybody tell them what to do.

3. Warhawks. More like chickenhawks. They are built on the idea that aggressive foreign policy, zealous patriotism and blind loyalty to the stars and stripes is the way to go. Wave the flag and play some Lee Greenwood music and they'll do whatever you say as long as it involves blowing up brown people. Most of them have never served, even if many of them had the chance. They'll go along with anything if they think it involves blowing up Muslims, distrusting Mexicans and talking about how great America is. They are deathly afraid of "communism" and "socialism" since they grew up in the Cold War and were indoctrinated to think of those ideas as the enemy, to be destroyed at all costs.

The GOP is these three factions fused together, and they've been welded together since the early 80's.

The strain started showing a few years ago, but this election seems to have finally reached a critical point.

Yeah, the Republican Civil War has begun. The Religious Right is accusing everyone else of not being ideologically pure enough and saying that if they'd stuck to their dogma they would have won. The Pseudo-Libertarians are furious at the very idea of anybody raising taxes to compromise. The Warhawks are in a froth that the Muslim Usurper got re-elected and thinking it's all but a Red Dawn scenario where they assume that the US is about to become a communist state.

Each faction is blaming the other two for failure. None have enough people to win. The election showed that even together they don't have enough anymore. They'll fight amongst each other. Groups will get marginalized, groups will get discredited. I'm seeing a possible splintering of the party into two parties, or a substantial third party emerging and becoming marginalized. It will NOT be quick, or pretty.
Speaking of communists.


An old couple came in to my store and the old man had an anti china hat on. He was asking if the items were made in china and refused to purchase anything that was.

Doesn't he know that it's on our best interest to support our Chinese overlords?
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Old 12-05-2012, 03:42 PM   #19
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Default Re: If Republicans soften the immigration message, is it over for Democrats?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Droid101
No you can't. Name a prominent politician having any of those views.

I don't need to remind you about Santorum's "Government NIG*" or all those Rape comments.

Both sides are NOT the same.

Obama is anti-Rich. Obama is anti-White, to a sense. Obama is anti-Male, to a sense. Obama is a leaning Socialist.
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Old 12-05-2012, 03:42 PM   #20
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Default Re: If Republicans soften the immigration message, is it over for Democrats?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinNYC
I don't believe the first paragraph.

And there lies the Democrats problem.
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Old 12-05-2012, 03:47 PM   #21
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Default Re: If Republicans soften the immigration message, is it over for Democrats?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Math2
Obama is anti-Rich. Obama is anti-White, to a sense. Obama is anti-Male, to a sense. Obama is a leaning Socialist.


I see you rolled up all of Rush's talking points into one neat little paragraph. Nice.

To address your points...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Math2
Obama is anti-Rich.
How so? He wants to return the higher bracket tax rates to Clinton levels? How is that anti-rich?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Math2
Obama is anti-White, to a sense.
What does that even mean?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Math2
Obama is anti-Male, to a sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Math2
Obama is a leaning Socialist.
Nope, he's center-right, just like Romney.



Any other talking points on the menu today?
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Old 12-05-2012, 03:50 PM   #22
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Default Re: If Republicans soften the immigration message, is it over for Democrats?

Wanna know the scariest part about Latinos?

At times you can't tell them apart from whites.

I'm sure we even have some here that will attest to that. White people feeling comfortable around them, even making racist comments without them knowing they're making it to a beaner.
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Old 12-05-2012, 03:52 PM   #23
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Default Re: If Republicans soften the immigration message, is it over for Democrats?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Droid101


I see you rolled up all of Rush's talking points into one neat little paragraph. Nice.

To address your points...

How so? He wants to return the higher bracket tax rates to Clinton levels? How is that anti-rich?
What does that even mean?

Nope, he's center-right, just like Romney.



Any other talking points on the menu today?


I don't listen to Rush Limbaugh. It's anti Rich because he wants to raise taxes on them unfairly, just because they've been more successful.

I don't know, what does anti-White mean? What does anti-Black mean?

You refuse to address my points with your emoticons.

I'm sure that that chart shows exactly where he is. Bullshit. Someone filled in a program answers that they made. There is no real data in that. Redistribution of the wealth is a leftist policy.
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Old 12-05-2012, 03:54 PM   #24
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Default Re: If Republicans soften the immigration message, is it over for Democrats?

Quote:
Originally Posted by andgar923
Wanna know the scariest part about Latinos?

At times you can't tell them apart from whites.

I'm sure we even have some here that will attest to that. White people feeling comfortable around them, even making racist comments without them knowing they're making it to a beaner.

Why does it matter what race they are? Why does it matter if they are indistinguishable. Well they are at least to the liberal media who framed George Zimmerman as a white racist....
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Old 12-05-2012, 04:01 PM   #25
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Default Re: If Republicans soften the immigration message, is it over for Democrats?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Math2
I don't listen to Rush Limbaugh. It's anti Rich because he wants to raise taxes on them unfairly, just because they've been more successful.
No, he wants to raise taxes on higher brackets because those people can handle the increase without any issues whatsoever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Math2
I don't know, what does anti-White mean? What does anti-Black mean?
Show me something he did or said that was anti-white. Protip: nothing exists.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Math2
You refuse to address my points with your emoticons.
How is he "anti-man"? That statement doesn't make any sense, especially considering he IS A MAN. Please, enlighten us on what anti-man means.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Math2
I'm sure that that chart shows exactly where he is. Bullshit. Someone filled in a program answers that they made. There is no real data in that. Redistribution of the wealth is a leftist policy.
It does. His policies are center-right. He's a fiscal conservative who has grown government spending the LEAST out of any of like... the last five presidents. He isn't calling for redistribution of wealth. He's calling for increased government income to cover expenses and debts. You know what actually is a socialist program? The military. 100% socialism.
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Old 12-05-2012, 04:08 PM   #26
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Default Re: If Republicans soften the immigration message, is it over for Democrats?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Math2
And there lies the Democrats problem.
lol, what problem? Democrats have beaten the GOP in the national vote count 5 of the last 6 general elections

And to the OP, believing that all the GOP has to do to win the WH is getting the Hispanic vote is way too simplistic. You have a problem with black voters, gay voters, young voters, educated voters, single women voters etc.

Those old white southerners (Dixiecrats) that helped you win elections before are dying out, you guys need to expand your base by being more than the party of old white dudes.

The country is changing and you guys ain't...
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Old 12-05-2012, 04:13 PM   #27
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Default Re: If Republicans soften the immigration message, is it over for Democrats?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Droid101
No, he wants to raise taxes on higher brackets because those people can handle the increase without any issues whatsoever.

Show me something he did or said that was anti-white. Protip: nothing exists.

How is he "anti-man"? That statement doesn't make any sense, especially considering he IS A MAN. Please, enlighten us on what anti-man means.

It does. His policies are center-right. He's a fiscal conservative who has grown government spending the LEAST out of any of like... the last five presidents. He isn't calling for redistribution of wealth. He's calling for increased government income to cover expenses and debts. You know what actually is a socialist program? The military. 100% socialism.

It doesn't matter whether or not they can handle it or not. What matters is the fact that he discourages prosperity. You should get what you earn, and not have it taken away.

Anti-white in the sense that he favors minorities. Anti-man in the sense that he favors women.

Redistribution of the wealth is what he is calling for. What is taking from one group but not another? He has spent less because of the winding down of the wars. And Obamacare is not going to decrease spending...
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Old 12-05-2012, 04:17 PM   #28
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Default Re: If Republicans soften the immigration message, is it over for Democrats?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Math2
It doesn't matter whether or not they can handle it or not. What matters is the fact that he discourages prosperity. You should get what you earn, and not have it taken away.
If you earn over $250,000, your taxes increase a tiny bit. That's it. You realize that taxes are what fund the government, right? And taxes are right now, at their lowest historical rate in American history (more or less). They NEED to be raised.

It doesn't discourage prosperity. Anyone who says "Well, I think I'll quit my $255,000 job because I'm going to pay another $100 in taxes this year" is a liar and a fool. If anything, it encourages you to make even more, to make up for that sad, lonely lost $100.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Math2
Anti-white in the sense that he favors minorities.
Where? When?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Math2
Anti-man in the sense that he favors women.
I think I see where World Nut Daily is sending you on this one. Because he is pushing for contraception and abortion coverage for insurance? That makes him anti-Man? Explain that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Math2
Redistribution of the wealth is what he is calling for. What is taking from one group but not another? He has spent less because of the winding down of the wars. And Obamacare is not going to decrease spending...
He's not "taking from one group but not another." He wants taxes raised on the highest bracket. Everyone pays the same rate on anything they earn up to $250,000 dollars. Everyone. Everyone is equal. Income beyond that will have the rate increased slightly (but still lower than the rates under SAINT REAGAN).
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Old 12-05-2012, 04:17 PM   #29
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Default Re: If Republicans soften the immigration message, is it over for Democrats?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Math2
And there lies the Democrats problem.
It's mainly because I know what those words means.
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Old 12-05-2012, 04:18 PM   #30
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Default Re: If Republicans soften the immigration message, is it over for Democrats?

Another point...I have never understood the Obama is a socialist garbage, he isn't even a liberal, (liberals are against drone attacks, keeping Gitmo open etc) much less a socialist. You guys have no idea what a Socialist is, please, educate yourselves. Obama is center right since that's how he has governed. He looks like a socialist to you guys only because you are on the faaaar right.
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