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Old 12-06-2012, 06:41 PM   #31
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Default Re: Jordan = Pippen

Quote:
Originally Posted by StateOfMind12
So the difference between a team that wins a championship and a team that wins no championships. Yeah, no big deal.
Yea but they replaced Jordan with pete myers.. a nobody.

If you replace scottie pippen with some no name small forward from 91-93 he probably doesnt win anything. What was MJ doing before Scottie broke out? Putting up insane numbers and losing. People dont want to admit it but Pippen was a force on the court.. not as good individually as Michael, but was a better team player that made the whole team run smoother which is never accounted for on this site. Just PER and fg and ppg.. all that matters I guess.
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Old 12-06-2012, 06:43 PM   #32
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Default Re: Jordan = Pippen

OP is just trolling, right?
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Old 12-06-2012, 06:45 PM   #33
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Default Re: Jordan = Pippen

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Originally Posted by KG215
OP is just trolling, right?
Jordan was most definitely not a better team player than scottie pippen.. thats a joke.
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Old 12-06-2012, 06:46 PM   #34
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Default Re: Jordan = Pippen

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpols
Jordan was most definitely not a better team player than scottie pippen.. thats a joke.
You mean the same guy that refused to leave the bench in the closing seconds of a playoff game?
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Old 12-06-2012, 06:47 PM   #35
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Default Re: Jordan = Pippen

Quote:
Originally Posted by StateOfMind12
You mean the same guy that refused to leave the bench in the closing seconds of a playoff game?
What does that have to do with anything?
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Old 12-06-2012, 06:47 PM   #36
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Default Re: Jordan = Pippen

Kobe Fan Alert?

Jordan Was a Better Player Clearly! That Doesn`t Mean Pippen Wasn`t Great. He Was Great!

Pippen Though, Was Better At Some Skills than MJ such as For Example: Defense = The Greatest Perimeter Defender Ever and Could Guard 1-4 Most Times. He Was also a Better Creator and Timer With the Ball, A 6`8 Ballhandling Missmatch Problem for Other Forwards. Better Rebounder and On the Open Floor They Where Around the Same Level, Although I Might Take Athletically Prime MJ From 84-93

Jordan Was a Better Scorer, Slasher or Driver, 1 on 1 Player, More Skilled, Better Shooter Mid or Far, Better Post Player, as Good Passer (Not a Better Creator or Timer for Plays Though) and a Better Team Defender (Stealer etc).

Last edited by Round Mound : 12-06-2012 at 07:18 PM.
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Old 12-06-2012, 06:47 PM   #37
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Default Re: Jordan = Pippen

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpols
Jordan was most definitely not a better team player than scottie pippen.. thats a joke.
How so? How as Pippen most definitely a better team player? Because he deferred to Jordan? What is it that definitively made Pippen a better team player?
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Old 12-06-2012, 06:48 PM   #38
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Default Re: Jordan = Pippen

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFan
what makes Jordan the GOAT is the combination of skills and accolades... lets forget about the accolades and compare the players one on one.
Pippen was maybe a better rebounder and defender. Jordan is literally better at EVERYTHING else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpols
Yea but they replaced Jordan with pete myers.. a nobody.

If you replace scottie pippen with some no name small forward from 91-93 he probably doesnt win anything. What was MJ doing before Scottie broke out? Putting up insane numbers and losing. People dont want to admit it but Pippen was a force on the court.. not as good individually as Michael, but was a better team player that made the whole team run smoother which is never accounted for on this site. Just PER and fg and ppg.. all that matters I guess.
How are you supposed to win with Charles Oakley as the 2nd best player on your team (by far) going against one of the greatest teams of all time? This thread is a classic example of people primarily looking at team success to compare players not realizing that there are other factors that contribute to wins and losses besides one player.
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Old 12-06-2012, 06:55 PM   #39
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Default Re: Jordan = Pippen

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFan
what makes Jordan the GOAT is the combination of skills and accolades... lets forget about the accolades and compare the players one on one.
You said Pippen took a backseat because Mj alpha. I'm was telling u that he took a backseat because Mj was wayyyy better.
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Old 12-06-2012, 07:03 PM   #40
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Default Re: Jordan = Pippen

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFan
what makes Jordan the GOAT is the combination of skills and accolades... lets forget about the accolades and compare the players one on one.

Jordan was the better and more efficient scorer. And he is the all time leader in PPG. He was the better driver, the better finisher, the better mid range jump shooter, and better free throw shooter. With the shorten 3pt line, Jordan was the better 3pt shooter. Without the shorten 3pt, Jordan actually was still the better 3pt shooter when he actually shot at it. Pippen never had a better percentage at the 3pt line than Jordan in 90 or 93. Jordan also had the better career 3pt percentage oddly enough.

Jordan was the better post up player, off the ball player, better footwork, and harder to stop defensively. Teams set up defensive schemes just to stop him. They would double team him way more often than Pippen just to get the balls out of his hand. They would rather Pippen beat him than Jordan.

Jordan may have been better one on one defender than Pippen was during the 1st threpeat, but Pippen was more versatile. He was quicker and had better reflexes and play the passing lane a bit better than Pippen. Jordan is third time all leader in steals with 2514 steals. Only Kidd and Stockton are above him. Pippen is sixth.

Jordan was also an underrated passer. Pippen was the more willing passer and better team player. I think Jordan passing ability was better, but both of them are good playmakers.

One on one, no question that Jordan is better. Jordan is much better on the offensive end than Pippen. Defensively, Pippen was more versatile. Pippen was also the better rebounder. But I don't think there is any argument to say that Pippen was better than Jordan individually. What separates them completely is that Jordan was much better offensively. Pippen never scoring ability that Jordan have nor was he ever as efficient as him.
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Old 12-06-2012, 07:14 PM   #41
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Default Re: Jordan = Pippen

Quote:
Originally Posted by KG215
How so? How as Pippen most definitely a better team player? Because he deferred to Jordan? What is it that definitively made Pippen a better team player?
Pippen looked to involve his teammates and get them good looks constantly.. that was his mentality. He would handle the ball, shift the defense, and make the fundamental pass to an open man. Pippen had Magic's mindset and style with less talent and flair.

Jordan COULD get his teammates going but watching him he would just carve defenses and looks for his own, passing it only when everyone collapsed on him. Jordan was a great passer, high IQ, etc. but he cared more about individually dominating and imposing his own will than getting looks for his teammate.

Jordan would scream at you if you missed an open shot off his pass because that was an opportunity he couldve taken that he gave to you. Pippen wouldnt because he wanted to give you the ball in a position for you to shoot. He was a facilitator.. and pippens team defense was better as well.
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Old 12-06-2012, 07:25 PM   #42
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Default Re: Jordan = Pippen

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFan
am i the only person on the world that think Jordan and Pippen are equal in terms of talent?

From my point of view the only thing Jordan has on Pippen is the alpha mentality and a better jumpshot then Pippen is a better 3pt shooter(Portland days) and better defender then everything else is debatable...

It seems that the consensus is Jordan >>>>>> Pippen... but since i grew up and watched more and more Pippen videos, it seems that Pippen was a good as Jordan... whats your opinion?

If you define players by their roles and what they can do outside of their roles, I could listen to the argument that Pippen was equal to or better than MJ. But in terms of a championship piece... superstar leader... no. Pippen was the best 2nd guy ever. People think that's an insult, but no... it's not. That means you could put him alongside any other all-time star and he'd thrive.

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Old 12-06-2012, 07:31 PM   #43
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Default Re: Jordan = Pippen

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFan
what makes Jordan the GOAT is the combination of skills and accolades... lets forget about the accolades and compare the players one on one.
I have a feeling that you never saw Jordan nor Pippen play and are trying to rationalyze things.
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Old 12-06-2012, 07:33 PM   #44
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Default Re: Jordan = Pippen

Quote:
Originally Posted by jstern
I have a feeling that you never saw Jordan nor Pippen play and are trying to rationalyze things.

I think that's pretty clear by now. I don't think I have seen anyone in this thread yet agree with OP's side.

Last edited by Kellogs4toniee : 12-06-2012 at 07:38 PM.
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Old 12-06-2012, 07:37 PM   #45
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Default Re: Jordan = Pippen

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpols
Pippen looked to involve his teammates and get them good looks constantly.. that was his mentality. He would handle the ball, shift the defense, and make the fundamental pass to an open man. Pippen had Magic's mindset and style with less talent and flair.

Jordan COULD get his teammates going but watching him he would just carve defenses and looks for his own, passing it only when everyone collapsed on him. Jordan was a great passer, high IQ, etc. but he cared more about individually dominating and imposing his own will than getting looks for his teammate.

Jordan would scream at you if you missed an open shot off his pass because that was an opportunity he couldve taken that he gave to you. Pippen wouldnt because he wanted to give you the ball in a position for you to shoot. He was a facilitator.. and pippens team defense was better as well.

Pretty much summed up by his teammates and coach...

Quote:
"Tremendous teammate, that's what comes to mind when I think of Scottie Pippen. He was a very caring teammate who was always concerned about the team, always concerned about it. He just had a great understanding of the team concept. Everyone talks about a great teammate, but he really was a great guy to play with. He may have been having a 25 or 30-point game, but if he knew you were struggling, he'd find a way to get you going as well. He's that type of guy." - BJ Armstrong

Quote:
"Scottie is one of the best teammates I've ever had. Everyone loves him. He's so unselfish the way he plays and plays so hard. He knows where you'll be and where you want the ball for a shot. And he'll consciously try to get you shots. He'll be aware when you're struggling in a game, or when you've gone awhile without a shot. He would run by and say, "I know you haven't gotten a shot. Don't worry. Next time, I'll get you one." He cares about everyone like no star I've ever played with." - Steve Kerr

Quote:
Scottie was not only a great player, but a great teammate as well. He was unselfish on the floor and encouraged his teammates to be aggressive and positive out there. Scottie was the type of guy that if you missed four or five shots, he wouldn't hesitate to give you the ball when you were open again. He did it because not only was it the right basketball play, but to show you his confidence in your ability - John Paxson

Quote:
He was very helpful and never derogatory. I was a new guy. I wasn’t even supposed to be on the team. But he was willing to help me out in practice when we were learning plays or working on the best way to cover a guy. He was able to talk to me without giving the impression like I was below him. He really wanted me to succeed and do well because that made him better. Scottie made everyone better because he was unselfish. He’d move the ball to the right spot. He had such a great basketball mind and really understood what was happening on the floor. He was always willing to help out his teammates and make them better. Here you got a guy who was a phenomenal basketball player, could kick on the court - anyone's butt, and he's sacrificing his game for the betterment of the team. So how could I go out there and say, hey, I want more shots? You can't. You have to fall in line. It really makes everyone understand what the ultimate goal is. To win.
- Bill Wennington

Quote:
He was the most popular teammate we had. You could laugh with him and joke and he wasn't the kind of guy who got mad. He was a fun teammate, fun to be around and always cared about everyone. If you had a problem, you could always talk it out with him. And he loved the game and the team. He was unselfish, but unselfish to a fault. We knew when he had the ball he was going to make a play and score or find the open guy.
- Horace Grant

Quote:
His greatest strength was his knowledge of how things worked on the defensive end of the floor. Scottie was the voice of our team—figuratively and literally, as he did a lot of the talking and kept our team on the same page. When he wasn’t at the top of the key harassing a guard as a special assignment, he was on the backside of our defense talking his teammates through different situations, whether it was a double team, trap or some other important aspect. Because of that, he was very vital to the run that we made.
- Phil Jackson

Quote:
He was probably the player most liked by others. He mingled. He brought out the best in players and communicated the best. Leadership, real leadership is one of his strengths. Everybody says Michael was a great leader. He led by example, by rebuke, by harsh words. Scottie's leadership was equally dominant, but a leadership of patting on the back, of support.
- Phil Jackson
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