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Old 02-07-2013, 02:41 AM   #106
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Default Re: "Antoni and the missing "D"

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I would respect someone who is one of the greatest of all time. I don't think anybody is sick of Kobe.

THIS
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Old 02-07-2013, 02:44 AM   #107
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Default Re: "Antoni and the missing "D"

I think Kobe will always have a part in basketball, but it is highly doubtful he becomes a coach. It's usually guys like Lindsey Hunter who become coaches Back to the being a complete jerk thing.... Jordan was probably the biggest ahole of all time. Players still look up to him.
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Old 02-07-2013, 06:12 PM   #108
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Default Re: "Antoni and the missing "D"

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What is true in the office has nothing to do with the world of sports, absolutely nothing.
I can't even tell you how many teams hated each other yet still won championships. There is a saying.......nice guys finish last.
You can't be afraid to be an asshole in order to win, it is the type of mindset that is needed in competitive sports. Even DFish and Magic would rip a guy's heart to shreds if he wasn't giving 100%, and they are two of the nicest guys ever.
Competitive sports are won by ruthless competitors with a killer instinct.....niceness is for after the game is over.

Guys who are soft get even softer if you coddle them, it doesn't help them compete. Softies need a cattle prod or kick in the @ss to get them going.
Ideally you would have a coach who would handle the toughness, demands and yelling......when you don't then a player like Kobe has to fill that role.
With my teams, I do all the yelling that is necessary and don't allow my players to do anything but encourage each other, however captains have some leeway.

Fair enough, what is on the court is on the court, and niceness is for after. I concur. Yeah back in the day those "sensitive" guys could never really develop. Kwame Brown I think being the prime example. They tried to nurture and breast feed this guy until he became too content with himself. He coulda been something, or perhaps Jordan was just an idiot for drafting him...
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:56 PM   #109
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Default Re: "Antoni and the missing "D"

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Fair enough, what is on the court is on the court, and niceness is for after. I concur. Yeah back in the day those "sensitive" guys could never really develop. Kwame Brown I think being the prime example. They tried to nurture and breast feed this guy until he became too content with himself. He coulda been something, or perhaps Jordan was just an idiot for drafting him...

I think the Lakers did great interms of getting the most out of Kwame which is positional inside defense. He was overhyped in the first place, having small hands and limited moves. He was traumatized by MJ and Collins and he was able play very good defense against the bigs when he played here.
Him at center and Smush at PG=playoffs (7th spot)
as compared to Dwight and Nash respectively at ?? spot.
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Old 02-08-2013, 12:08 AM   #110
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Default Re: "Antoni and the missing "D"

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Originally Posted by lakerfreak
Don't get me wrong, he's a winner, but my reasons for sticking by this is that he competes all the time, even when its unnecessary. He's too tough sometimes on his teammates. Everything you said is accurate. But he'd be loved by his teammates more if he turned it down a notch on each of those things. Just a notch, certainly not enough to make him lazy. Thats why he'll be a winner, but leadership is about being persuasive, and the easier route to getting your coworkers to do something, is by being well-liked. Thats why I think he's an asshole. Fish was a perfect example, literally by leading an example. As a result he was a great leader, well-liked, and in the end he was a winner too.

I find it interesting cuz I think of myself as the one of the biggest Kobe critics but I don't think him as being too tough on his teammates esp as compared to MJ and Pippen who constantly yelled at Toni Kukoc to the point of embarrasment back in their days, Compare that to Kobe when he had Smush and Kwame as teammates.
Also, I always see Kobe giving props, high fives to teammates after huge plays in crucial situations, something I hardly saw MJ and Pippen did.
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Old 02-08-2013, 12:30 PM   #111
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Default Re: "Antoni and the missing "D"

You know what also bothers me about 'Antoni......his demeanor, his body language. If the Lakers are behind he looks so down and defeated, almost like he's going to cry. A coach should NEVER show that to a team, a coach has to show a strong confident demeanor at all times, show he is engaged, keep the team calm and give the strategy/adjustments, make them believe that you believe they can come back and win.....trust me, this works in a huge way.....well, provided the coach knows how to make adjustments.
Look at how Adelman handled being down 29 to the Lakers as an example, they almost came back to win.
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Old 02-08-2013, 02:31 PM   #112
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Default Re: "Antoni and the missing "D"

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Originally Posted by DKLaker
You know what also bothers me about 'Antoni......his demeanor, his body language. If the Lakers are behind he looks so down and defeated, almost like he's going to cry. A coach should NEVER show that to a team, a coach has to show a strong confident demeanor at all times, show he is engaged, keep the team calm and give the strategy/adjustments, make them believe that you believe they can come back and win.....trust me, this works in a huge way.....well, provided the coach knows how to make adjustments.
Look at how Adelman handled being down 29 to the Lakers as an example, they almost came back to win.

"show he is engaged"

You mean like Phil Jackson always did?

hahahahahaha hahahahahahahah

Good one, DK!! You're a funny guy!!!
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Old 02-08-2013, 02:52 PM   #113
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Default Re: "Antoni and the missing "D"

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Originally Posted by mr sax
"show he is engaged"

You mean like Phil Jackson always did?

hahahahahaha hahahahahahahah

Good one, DK!! You're a funny guy!!!

no remember....in DK's world...its all coach's fault...no matter what....

like yesterday...the team gave a FCUK about being on the court...but well...the coach didnt prep the team....

Howard looked like he didnt wanted to even be on court...ummmm...its coach's fault....why cause he is not being used correctly...

goes on and one and on
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Old 02-08-2013, 04:23 PM   #114
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Default Re: "Antoni and the missing "D"

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Originally Posted by Lakers_Kobe_Fan
no remember....in DK's world...its all coach's fault...no matter what....

like yesterday...the team gave a FCUK about being on the court...but well...the coach didnt prep the team....

Howard looked like he didnt wanted to even be on court...ummmm...its coach's fault....why cause he is not being used correctly...

goes on and one and on

It is partially the coaches fault if a player doesn't want to be on the floor. If a player isn't being used correctly, they usually don't have fun out there and don't want to be there. That is 100% the coaches fault. You guys are crazy to keep sticking up for 'antoni. This is an extremely talented roster. The Knicks had a very talented roster and couldn't do anything with 'antoni. The guys system just doesn't work. Overrated.
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Old 02-08-2013, 04:25 PM   #115
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Default Re: "Antoni and the missing "D"

Quote:
Originally Posted by dd24
It is partially the coaches fault if a player doesn't want to be on the floor. If a player isn't being used correctly, they usually don't have fun out there and don't want to be there. That is 100% the coaches fault. You guys are crazy to keep sticking up for 'antoni. This is an extremely talented roster. The Knicks had a very talented roster and couldn't do anything with 'antoni. The guys system just doesn't work. Overrated.

I agree its coaches fault...absolutely....its his responsibility to put these guys into positions where they are successful.

but come on getting paid 19mil and not bringing in the energy??? its not professional....
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Old 02-08-2013, 04:33 PM   #116
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Default Re: "Antoni and the missing "D"

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but come on getting paid 19mil and not bringing in the energy??? its not professional....

Absolutely. It's what frustrates me with the younger players. The competitiveness just isn't there. These guys all played AAU ball together for years. Went to basketball camps together. Grew up in an era where all the kids got trophies. That killer instinct just isn't really part of the sport anymore. I know Dwight hasn't been 100% all season. His offensive game really needs some help though. I think he's always going to need a scorer like Kobe alongside him in order to be successful. Dwight in a lot of ways is a bit of a diva.
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Old 02-08-2013, 05:35 PM   #117
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Default Re: "Antoni and the missing "D"

Quote:
Originally Posted by dd24
It is partially the coaches fault if a player doesn't want to be on the floor. If a player isn't being used correctly, they usually don't have fun out there and don't want to be there. That is 100% the coaches fault. You guys are crazy to keep sticking up for 'antoni. This is an extremely talented roster. The Knicks had a very talented roster and couldn't do anything with 'antoni. The guys system just doesn't work. Overrated.

Ohhhhhhhh......I get it now. It's all about the players having fun!! Like in high school, right? Well...thanks for enlightening me to this. Maybe Laker management needs to hire a cruise director to be the head coach. You know...he'll make sure everyone is having fun!

Last edited by mr sax : 02-08-2013 at 05:42 PM.
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Old 02-08-2013, 05:44 PM   #118
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Default Re: "Antoni and the missing "D"

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Originally Posted by mr sax
Ohhhhhhhh......I get it now. It's all about the players having fun!! Like in high school, right? Well...thanks for enlightening me to this. Maybe Laker management needs to hire a cruise director to be the head coach. You know...he'll make sure everyone is having fun!

That's not what I meant. I think you're reading between the lines too much. They should have a passion for the game and winning.
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Old 02-08-2013, 11:29 PM   #119
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Default Re: "Antoni and the missing "D"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakers_Kobe_Fan
no remember....in DK's world...its all coach's fault...no matter what....like yesterday...the team gave a FCUK about being on the court...but well...the coach didnt prep the team....

Howard looked like he didnt wanted to even be on court...ummmm...its coach's fault....why cause he is not being used correctly...

goes on and one and on

Yesterday, I was amused at how John Ireland ranted on how Max Kellerman was inferring that when the Lakers where winning that it was the players lead by Kobe who were actually coaching the team. John almost lost it and called Max full of crap bec he totally blames D'Antoni when they lose and givethe players full credit when they win.
That was exactly my point when DK locks his missiles on the coach when they struggle and totally ignore his contributions when they win.
But to a point, he is right ONLY if the team has 3-4 supertars with a great supporting cast. I like his analogy of handing a key to a driver to drive a well oiled Porche.
The problem is the Porche has some old and/or defective parts, a 39 yr old PG, a center with a bum shoulder, Kobe and Metta shooting like 30% from the perimeter etc.

Last edited by tamaraw08 : 02-09-2013 at 07:05 PM.
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Old 02-10-2013, 01:58 AM   #120
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Default Re: "Antoni and the missing "D"

Quote:
Originally Posted by tamaraw08
Yesterday, I was amused at how John Ireland ranted on how Max Kellerman was inferring that when the Lakers where winning that it was the players lead by Kobe who were actually coaching the team. John almost lost it and called Max full of crap bec he totally blames D'Antoni when they lose and givethe players full credit when they win.
That was exactly my point when DK locks his missiles on the coach when they struggle and totally ignore his contributions when they win.
But to a point, he is right ONLY if the team has 3-4 supertars with a great supporting cast. I like his analogy of handing a key to a driver to drive a well oiled Porche.
The problem is the Porche has some old and/or defective parts, a 39 yr old PG, a center with a bum shoulder, Kobe and Metta shooting like 30% from the perimeter etc.

Not to mention that there are so many new players on this team that are in the rotation that are still getting comfortable with their roles. The other day, Jodie Meeks hit four three pointers out of four against the bobcats. Before that he wasn't doing so well. These players that have roles need to also be professional and perfect what they are asked to do. If Jodie hit most of his threes, Ron was a consistent shooter, Dwight makes his free throws and hustles every game, and the team collectively figured out how to stop turning the ball over so many times a game, would we a) have such a mediocre record, b) blame coach all the time, and c) be having this conversation?
The coach gives the players their roles, and the keys to getting them good shots. If you have a bunch of wide open opportunities, and you either miss the shot, or you pass it up, then you are either a) an idiot, or b) just not really putting in your time to help the team by improving on what you need to do night in and night out.
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