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Old 12-13-2012, 03:10 PM   #46
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Default Re: How is Tony Parker not the best PG in the game?

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Originally Posted by bizil
I usually like the PG's like Paul and D Will the most. Because they are great floor general-dime droppers first BUT can will a team to victory and become alpha dogs. I put Parker more in the group with Rose and Westbrook. And that is pure alpha dog type scorers who happen to play PG. In other words Tony is more of a scoring PG or some would go so far to say a combo guard. Though I prefer to say lead guard who can really ring up the points and is a very good passer. But Tony, Rose, or Westbrook aren't that TOTAL PACKAGE PG in terms of balancing great scoring and great floor generalship-passing.

Rondo is more of the Stockton, Kidd, Mo Cheeks, Mark Jackson style of PG. But Rondo is doing the J Kidd triple double act at 6'1, which is unheard of. But in any event u have three style of PG's who can all be great players. U have the Paul-DWill model, the Rose-Parker-Westbrook model, and the Rondo model. In all three groups, u have guys who project to HOF status. On certain teams either on the three kinds of PG's can be a better fit for that particular team. Even though I think Paul and D Will (like Magic, Big O, Isiah, Payton, peak Nash, Frazier, Tiny) can adapt to any situation.
Totally agree, same here. I would put Parker and Westbrook in different categories though, Parker is a lot more finesse.

The other day someone tried to argue that Rondo was the best PG in the league, lol. Well have you ever seen him take over a game like CP3 has?
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Old 12-13-2012, 03:14 PM   #47
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Default Re: How is Tony Parker not the best PG in the game?

Oh yea to answer this question, same reason why Chauncey Billups isn't the best point guard in the game.
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Old 12-13-2012, 03:24 PM   #48
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Default Re: How is Tony Parker not the best PG in the game?

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Originally Posted by bizil
I usually like the PG's like Paul and D Will the most. Because they are great floor general-dime droppers first BUT can will a team to victory and become alpha dogs. I put Parker more in the group with Rose and Westbrook. And that is pure alpha dog type scorers who happen to play PG. In other words Tony is more of a scoring PG or some would go so far to say a combo guard. Though I prefer to say lead guard who can really ring up the points and is a very good passer. But Tony, Rose, or Westbrook aren't that TOTAL PACKAGE PG in terms of balancing great scoring and great floor generalship-passing.

Rondo is more of the Stockton, Kidd, Mo Cheeks, Mark Jackson style of PG. But Rondo is doing the J Kidd triple double act at 6'1, which is unheard of. But in any event u have three style of PG's who can all be great players. U have the Paul-DWill model, the Rose-Parker-Westbrook model, and the Rondo model. In all three groups, u have guys who project to HOF status. On certain teams either on the three kinds of PG's can be a better fit for that particular team. Even though I think Paul and D Will (like Magic, Big O, Isiah, Payton, peak Nash, Frazier, Tiny) can adapt to any situation.
Adapt and lose, yes.
Adapt and win, no.
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Old 12-13-2012, 03:25 PM   #49
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Default Re: How is Tony Parker not the best PG in the game?

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Originally Posted by Eat Like A Bosh
Oh yea to answer this question, same reason why Chauncey Billups isn't the best point guard in the game.
Which is why?
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Old 12-13-2012, 03:30 PM   #50
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Default Re: How is Tony Parker not the best PG in the game?

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Originally Posted by Eat Like A Bosh
The other day someone tried to argue that Rondo was the best PG in the league, lol. Well have you ever seen him take over a game like CP3 has?
At the end of the season there's a couple extra games. They call them "the playoff's". Rondo suggest you watch them this season. This year so far give me rondo over chris.
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Old 12-13-2012, 03:33 PM   #51
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Default Re: How is Tony Parker not the best PG in the game?

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At the end of the season there's a couple extra games. They call them "the playoff's". Rondo suggest you watch them this season. This year so far give me rondo over chris.
Why watch them when the "best point guard in the league" is getting swept out of the playoffs? (that is if he makes it of course)
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Old 12-13-2012, 03:38 PM   #52
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Default Re: How is Tony Parker not the best PG in the game?

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Originally Posted by ninephive
In your mind, what could Parker do (as a Spur) to prove he is as good as / better than Paul?



Be a better player than Paul. I don't think the system does or ever has held him back. I don't know if his stats are especially contained in this system. Chris Paul is just a better player, is how I see it. Chris Paul is comparable to Steve Nash and Jason Kidd and Tony Parker has never been as good as those guys were at their best. He's playing about as well as he can play. I'd have Nash and Paul and Rondo as the best, even with Nash being out and not doing anything yet. I have Parker ahead of Deron and both Rose and Westbrook, as Rose has only so long a resume and is injured, and Westbrook hasn't outplayed Parker yet. And Deron is just not looking great.
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Old 12-13-2012, 03:42 PM   #53
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Default Re: How is Tony Parker not the best PG in the game?

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Originally Posted by Eat Like A Bosh
Totally agree, same here. I would put Parker and Westbrook in different categories though, Parker is a lot more finesse.

The other day someone tried to argue that Rondo was the best PG in the league, lol. Well have you ever seen him take over a game like CP3 has?

In terms of mentality Rose, Westbrook,and Tony are very similar. Even though I think Tony and Rose have more of an understanding running PG than Russ. But Rose and Westbrook are freakish athletes who finish with power, speed, and finesse. While Tony is speed and finesse. Great point!
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Old 12-13-2012, 03:44 PM   #54
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Default Re: How is Tony Parker not the best PG in the game?

Ever heard of Rajon Rondo? After him there is a open discussion for that #2 spot since D-Will has fallen off a cliff this season.. Westbrook, CP3, Parker take your pick but Kyrie is coming though watch out.
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Old 12-13-2012, 03:48 PM   #55
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Default Re: How is Tony Parker not the best PG in the game?

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Originally Posted by Whoah10115
Be a better player than Paul. I don't think the system does or ever has held him back. I don't know if his stats are especially contained in this system. Chris Paul is just a better player, is how I see it. Chris Paul is comparable to Steve Nash and Jason Kidd and Tony Parker has never been as good as those guys were at their best. He's playing about as well as he can play. I'd have Nash and Paul and Rondo as the best, even with Nash being out and not doing anything yet. I have Parker ahead of Deron and both Rose and Westbrook, as Rose has only so long a resume and is injured, and Westbrook hasn't outplayed Parker yet. And Deron is just not looking great.
This is exactly what I mean. "Be better." What do you mean by that? Have better stats? Win more? Get more Championhips? More Finals MVPs? Hit more game-winners? Play more minutes? Shoot a higher percentage? Pass more/less? Play better defense?

For those of us who were PRAYING that we didn't trade away Parker for Kidd, we take a different approach. Parker has as many FMVPs as those 3 "better players" have combined rings. Great players, yes. But good enough to be the best player on a Championship team? Not yet.
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Old 12-13-2012, 03:50 PM   #56
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Default Re: How is Tony Parker not the best PG in the game?

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Originally Posted by ninephive
Adapt and lose, yes.
Adapt and win, no.

I'm not knocking Tony P at all. Dude is headed to the HOF and when his career is over, I think he will be a Top 15 GOAT kind of PG. I just think Tony isn't on the level of Paul or D Will in terms of the most premium asset at PG. And that's running a team and making guys better through the dimes. And also knowing when to take over and when to lay back. Paul and D Will can score just as good as Parker. But Parker CAN'T run the show as well as Paul and D Will.

The major reason Nash won MVP two years in a row (even though I disagree with one of them) is because he could alter the game passing AND taking over a game scoring. Tony is usually more slanted to a scoring PG-combo guard kind of thinking who ALSO happens to be very good at floor general and dropping dimes. Paul and DWill are GREAT at both facets. And it's a lot easier to win rings when u have the GOAT PF in Duncan and a future HOFer in Ginobli your entire career.
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Old 12-13-2012, 04:01 PM   #57
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Default Re: How is Tony Parker not the best PG in the game?

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Originally Posted by ninephive
This is exactly what I mean. "Be better." What do you mean by that? Have better stats? Win more? Get more Championhips? More Finals MVPs? Hit more game-winners? Play more minutes? Shoot a higher percentage? Pass more/less? Play better defense?

For those of us who were PRAYING that we didn't trade away Parker for Kidd, we take a different approach. Parker has as many FMVPs as those 3 "better players" have combined rings. Great players, yes. But good enough to be the best player on a Championship team? Not yet.



I mean, I don't know what you want me to say. There isn't a box to check off that makes him better. But watching them play, Paul looks to be clearly better. He's not more showy either, so it isn't that. I'm looking beyond the stats. If I wasn't, then Parker wouldn't have been ahead of Paul last year and he really wouldn't be ahead of him this year. I just see Paul able to (and has) doing more for his team. He hasn't been as successful in the playoffs, but that has little to do with which one is better and more to do with which teams have been better. Paul is a better rebounder and defender and he controls the game better.
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Old 12-13-2012, 04:04 PM   #58
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Default Re: How is Tony Parker not the best PG in the game?

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Originally Posted by bizil
I'm not knocking Tony P at all. Dude is headed to the HOF and when his career is over, I think he will be a Top 15 GOAT kind of PG. I just think Tony isn't on the level of Paul or D Will in terms of the most premium asset at PG. And that's running a team and making guys better through the dimes. And also knowing when to take over and when to lay back. Paul and D Will can score just as good as Parker. But Parker CAN'T run the show as well as Paul and D Will.

The major reason Nash won MVP two years in a row (even though I disagree with one of them) is because he could alter the game passing AND taking over a game scoring. Tony is usually more slanted to a scoring PG-combo guard kind of thinking who ALSO happens to be very good at floor general and dropping dimes. Paul and DWill are GREAT at both facets. And it's a lot easier to win rings when u have the GOAT PF in Duncan and a future HOFer in Ginobli your entire career.
That's Tony's downfall...playing with those guys. Also doesn't help to be on one of the best passing teams in history...that means spreading out the assists so now you don't look like you're "running the show" like these other guys who operate in more stagnent offenses. If you're saying that Parker can't run a "show" that can't make it to the Finals as well, I would have to concede that. To put it this way, I don't think the Spurs get better if you replace Parker with Paul or Williams.
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Old 12-13-2012, 04:06 PM   #59
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Default Re: How is Tony Parker not the best PG in the game?

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Originally Posted by ninephive
That's Tony's downfall...playing with those guys. Also doesn't help to be on one of the best passing teams in history...that means spreading out the assists so now you don't look like you're "running the show" like these other guys who operate in more stagnent offenses. If you're saying that Parker can't run a "show" that can't make it to the Finals as well, I would have to concede that. To put it this way, I don't think the Spurs get better if you replace Parker with Paul or Williams.



Maybe not, but I know for sure the Clippers aren't as good if you replace Paul with Parker.
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Old 12-13-2012, 04:20 PM   #60
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Default Re: How is Tony Parker not the best PG in the game?

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Originally Posted by Whoah10115
I mean, I don't know what you want me to say. There isn't a box to check off that makes him better. But watching them play, Paul looks to be clearly better. He's not more showy either, so it isn't that. I'm looking beyond the stats. If I wasn't, then Parker wouldn't have been ahead of Paul last year and he really wouldn't be ahead of him this year. I just see Paul able to (and has) doing more for his team. He hasn't been as successful in the playoffs, but that has little to do with which one is better and more to do with which teams have been better. Paul is a better rebounder and defender and he controls the game better.
Anything with substance besides just "he looks to be better." I think that mentaility is the same mentality responsible for All-Star voting. I'm arguing that I think this is why he's regarded by most as the best point guard in the league...because his demeanor seems to exude "winner" without actually having to win.

I am on the other side of this argument being a Cowboys fan. Most "fans" want Romo traded, yet I argue he is a very good quarterback. I can use the fact that coming into this season he had the 2nd highest QBR of all-time. But he hasn't been able to lead his team deep into the playoffs, which means I would NEVER argue he is the best in the league if he can't. I think some of his potential is held back by the fact that 1 out of every 10 shotgun snaps goes over his head or hits the ground before it gets to him. I could argue that his O-Line is terrible, he's never had a quality RB who could stay healthy and so he has to pass 62 times a game, and that his "best" receivers often lead the league in dropped passes. All of that sucks and could be reasons why Romo could have the most potential of any QB in the league and never be the "best." But I won't argue he is unless it comes together for him.

But for some reason in basketball, where individuals are even MORE important to team succes, a guy could be in the league for this long and never make a deep playoff run, yet still be considered the best year after year after year? (I know you're not arguing he's the best PG every year, but most do).

Last edited by ninephive : 12-13-2012 at 04:26 PM.
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