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Old 01-07-2013, 09:46 PM   #136
kuniva_dAMiGhTy
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Default Re: Kobe VS Jordan at age 34

Quote:
Originally Posted by chazzy
Weak excuse. That's just hater talk. People can't point at his efficiency anymore so they come up with garbage reasons like this

MJs teams and more notably Iverson's teams had 0 problems playing defense with their best player taking a high volume of shots. 2010 Lakers had no problem playing defense either. Reaching hard.

So he's allowed to play NO defense and chuck up shots.

Kobe isn't Iverson nor Jordan for that matter. Kobe has had a history of alienating his teammates.
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Old 01-07-2013, 09:51 PM   #137
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Default Re: Kobe VS Jordan at age 34

Quote:
Originally Posted by kuniva_dAMiGhTy
So he's allowed to play NO defense and chuck up shots.

Kobe isn't Iverson nor Jordan for that matter. Kobe has had a history of alienating his teammates.
Your two points have been

- The Lakers should run the offensive exclusively through Nash in order to succeed
-They're playing bad defense because their leader is taking too many shots

What does that have to do with excusing Kobe from not playing defense? I never said that.
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Old 01-07-2013, 09:52 PM   #138
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Default Re: Kobe VS Jordan at age 34

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZaaaaaH
Are you in ur own little World? When did I ever make an excuses for Lakers under performing with their roster?

Do you know how to read? If you do please go back and read my post.


All I said was "Funny how Kobe haters dont mention MJ has been with the similar roster for longer time with Phil as their coach." Which is FACT and me mentioning PHIL is pretty much the same thing as system.

First of all, its not a fact AT ALL. Jordan only played for Phil for 7 seasons (8 if you include the end of 95), while Kobe played for Phil for 11 seasons. And as far as teammates they played with under Phil, Jordan played with the Pippen/Grant/Paxson/Cartwright core for 4 years and the Pippen/Rodman/Kukoc/Harper/Longley core for 3 years. As far as consistency goes, how is that so radically different from Kobe playing under Phil with the Shaq/Fisher/Fox/Horry/Shaw core for 4-5 years and then the Gasol/Odom/Bynum/Fisher core for 4 years? If you seriously find some significant difference there, YOU ARE NITPICKING. If you're trying to say something else, please clarify.

Second of all, if you're not trying to make excuses for this year, then what relevance does your point hold, even if it is true? What is the point? What difference does it make? I don't really get how anyone can read that as anything other then you trying to point out some favorable situation Jordan was in and/or some unfavorable situation Kobe was in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZaaaaaH
Not even that the Bulls made it to the Playoffs without MJ. Do you think Lakers can do the same without Kobe?

GTFO here with ALL Time great teammates. You can have all the talent but if they dont give you all they got its useless. And no shiit its pathetic that Lakers are where they are now but if you think THINK, Their roster does not work well with D'Antoni. They are OLD Nash is not the SAME 2 time MVP Caliber player like he was before who can take over offensively. He can barely get his own shot against good defenders this season.

WTF are you talking about I brought up Jordan?

Its so obvious ur a Kobe hater and a Jordan stan GTFO here.

Can the Lakers make it to the playoffs without Kobe? Sure its possible. There problem clearly isn't talent, its chemistry. If there was that big of a change, the chemistry might be different and possibly for the better.

Kobe's teams not giving all they got and inconsistent effort has been a common thing throughout his career. Do you think thats a coincidence? At some point you have to look at the leadership of the team. Its not all Kobe's fault, but unless you want to say he's not a leader of this team, he definitely should shoulder much of the blame.

Last edited by guy : 01-07-2013 at 09:55 PM.
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Old 01-07-2013, 09:55 PM   #139
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Default Re: Kobe VS Jordan at age 34

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaquille O'Neal
Too bad Kobe has played 114 more games than Jordan is still not even close to him in any statistical category.

Jordan = 1072 career games
Kobe = 1186 games

MJ = 30.1 PPG, .497 FG%, 893 blocks, 2514 steals, 5633 assists, 6,672 rebounds, 32,292 points.

KB = 25.5 PPG, .454 FG%, 599 blocks, 1762 steals, 5542 assists, 6,272 rebounds, 30,222 points.

6 rings / 6 FMVP, 10 scoring titles (vs 2), 5 MVP's (vs 1), DPOY, Collegiate national champion, 4 gold medals.

All done without a dominant big man either.

MJ>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Kobe.


Fake Shaq I understand you dont like Kobe and always try to find ways to discredit what Kobe has done. You comparing Kobe to MJ really does not help ur case since NO ONE comes Close to Jordans accomplishments and HOW he has done it. When you do this only thing it shows is ur insecurity.

Try to be more like the REAL Shaq and respect Kobe for what He has done for the league.
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Old 01-07-2013, 10:04 PM   #140
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Default Re: Kobe VS Jordan at age 34

Quote:
Originally Posted by chazzy
Your two points have been

- The Lakers should run the offensive exclusively through Nash in order to succeed
-They're playing bad defense because their leader is taking too many shots

What does that have to do with excusing Kobe from not playing defense? I never said that.

But, you said it's an "excuse" for Kobe's teammates not to play defense while he gets to focus on....scoring.

Obviously him scoring isn't the answer. Maybe he should try playing defense, and, I don't know, making his teammates better?
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Old 01-07-2013, 10:11 PM   #141
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Default Re: Kobe VS Jordan at age 34

Quote:
Originally Posted by guy
First of all, its not a fact AT ALL. Jordan only played for Phil for 7 seasons (8 if you include the end of 95), while Kobe played for Phil for 11 seasons. And as far as teammates they played with under Phil, Jordan played with the Pippen/Grant/Paxson/Cartwright core for 4 years and the Pippen/Rodman/Kukoc/Harper/Longley core for 3 years. As far as consistency goes, how is that so radically different from Kobe playing under Phil with the Shaq/Fisher/Fox/Horry/Shaw core for 4-5 years and then the Gasol/Odom/Bynum/Fisher core for 4 years? If you seriously find some significant difference there, YOU ARE NITPICKING. If you're trying to say something else, please clarify.

Second of all, if you're not trying to make excuses for this year, then what relevance does your point hold, even if it is true? What is the point? What difference does it make? I don't really get how anyone can read that as anything other then you trying to point out some favorable situation Jordan was in and/or some unfavorable situation Kobe was in.



Can the Lakers make it to the playoffs without Kobe? Sure its possible. There problem clearly isn't talent, its chemistry. If there was that big of a change, the chemistry might be different and possibly for the better.

Kobe's teams not giving all they got and inconsistent effort has been a common thing throughout his career. Do you think thats a coincidence? At some point you have to look at the leadership of the team. Its not all Kobe's fault, but unless you want to say he's not a leader of this team, he definitely should shoulder much of the blame.

Thats my point Jordan has been with Phil Longer then Kobe has been with D'Antoni. Not just Jordan but Pippen as well who is the Main CORE of the roster. You can always replace role players and make sure they do their part but its harder to get ur main guys like Dwight and Gasol who is trying to learn a system that does not fit them. On top of that Phil is Great getting players together compare to D'Antoni who doesnt really get along with his players.

This has nothing to do with Kobe being with Phil so thats irrelevant whatever u wrote.

Only point I was making was YOU Kobe haters find whatever you can to bring him down and Never can respect him for what he has done.

If you think Lakers can Make the Playoffs this year without Kobe or even have a Chance I was wasting my time on someone who dont even watch basketball.

Kobe not being a good leader or what not can not be measured but his 5 rings and 2 Rings without Shaq can be.
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Old 01-07-2013, 10:26 PM   #142
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Default Re: Kobe VS Jordan at age 34

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZaaaaaH
Thats my point Jordan has been with Phil Longer then Kobe has been with D'Antoni. Not just Jordan but Pippen as well who is the Main CORE of the roster. You can always replace role players and make sure they do their part but its harder to get ur main guys like Dwight and Gasol who is trying to learn a system that does not fit them. On top of that Phil is Great getting players together compare to D'Antoni who doesnt really get along with his players.

This has nothing to do with Kobe being with Phil so thats irrelevant whatever u wrote.

Only point I was making was YOU Kobe haters find whatever you can to bring him down and Never can respect him for what he has done.

If you think Lakers can Make the Playoffs this year without Kobe or even have a Chance I was wasting my time on someone who dont even watch basketball.

Kobe not being a good leader or what not can not be measured but his 5 rings and 2 Rings without Shaq can be.

Okay, and your point is irrelevant, because as I pointed out, which you just completely glossed over, a much worse version of Jordan stepped into a worse situation not even playing the game in years, playing with even worse teammates NONE of which he ever played with before, and for a coach who hadn't coached him in 13 years and got similar, arguably better, results.

And if you want to just talk about the year in question, Jordan without Pippen that year was leading his team to a 56-26 pace, and either way, to attribute a 62-20 record to a 37-45 record (Lakers current pace), a 25 win difference, to the fact that Jordan had Phil as a coach before and got to play with Pippen for half the season while D'Antoni and Howard are new for Kobe is completely stupid and pathetic. Like I said, its one thing if they were just underachieving, like they were the 4th-5th seed instead of the 1st-2nd seed, but its so much worse then that.

Ummm, you were the one saying that its not all about talent. So why am I off base there? Chemistry is the issue and if you took such a significant part of the team away, it could be better or it could be worse.

What happened in the past doesn't necessarily apply to now, and his 5 rings doesn't necessarily mean he was ever that great of a leader. It could just mean the talent, chemistry, and other leaders on that team were good enough to compensate for that. And I'm not even saying Kobe should go down as a bad leader. Just that he doesn't seem to be a good one this year, and that he really shouldn't be compared to Jordan in that regard.
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:08 AM   #143
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Default Re: Kobe VS Jordan at age 34

Why it is so hard for Jordan stans to accept the truth that Kobe at age 34 is better than Jordan same age? Look at their stats, it tells everything.. We know Prime Jordan was slightly better than current Kobe but at age 34, Kobe is no doubt the better player by far..
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:22 AM   #144
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Default Re: Kobe VS Jordan at age 34

Quote:
Originally Posted by The-Legend-24
Kobe > Shaq.

U Mad fakkit?

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Old 01-08-2013, 12:53 AM   #145
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Default Re: Kobe VS Jordan at age 34

LMAO at butthurt Bulls fans/Jordan Stans who feel threatened by Kobe's greatness

Kobe is about to pass Jordan in career 3's made...........BY 1,000
Watch the crying start in a game or two.
MJ is the GOAT, Kobe is Great.......just leave it at that....stop trying to bash him
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Old 01-08-2013, 03:27 PM   #146
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Default Re: Kobe VS Jordan at age 34

counter-factual arguments are fun especially as they
relate to hypothetical conjectures , which are
fact-based in the world of jordan fans

they believe that because their favorite player is
considered by many to be the best player ever
that thru osmosis it makes them GOAT fans

delusional bunch

these are the facts

.

6 title runs

regular season - pippen led jordan in reb & asst every year

post-season - pippen led jordan in reb 5of6 & asst 4of6

finals - pippen led jordan in reb 6 of 6 & asst 4 of 6

all while being the lead defender and avg 20ppg

. . . . . . . . . but jordan did it all by himself

.

.

as it relates to kobe

they're quick to point out that shaq did the same

but what they can't explain is how during shaq's first 8 years

.

from his ROY in 1993 to 2000 ASG MVP

shaq received

ZERO awards and ONE honor

.

his playoff record

18-18 before LA - 1 final and swept 3 times by smits hakeem & luc
14-16 before 2000 kobe and swept twice ostertagged & d-robbed

32-34 postseason record before 00 kobe and swept 5 times

.

.

.

but y'all didn't hear this from me
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Old 01-08-2013, 03:54 PM   #147
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Default Re: Kobe VS Jordan at age 34

Funny to see a guy who adamantly stated that Kobe would destroy the 90's to an equal or greater degree than MJ talking about counterfactuals.
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Old 01-08-2013, 04:01 PM   #148
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Default Re: Kobe VS Jordan at age 34

32/5/5 50% vs 28/5/3 46%. really hard choice.
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Old 01-08-2013, 06:35 PM   #149
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Default Re: Kobe VS Jordan at age 34

Quote:
these are the facts


6 title runs

regular season - pippen led jordan in reb & asst every year

post-season - pippen led jordan in reb 5of6 & asst 4of6

finals - pippen led jordan in reb 6 of 6 & asst 4 of 6

all while being the lead defender and avg 20ppg

. . . . . . . . . but jordan did it all by himself

Exactly. We saw Jordan "by himself" in several seasons and the results were abysmal. How many all-time greats have had 5 losing seasons (3 during his youth)?

Jordan fans love to point out the Bulls without Pippen were a top team for half of 1998 (56 win pace as guy note) but conveniently ignore that the Bulls without Jordan, with Pippen were at a 58 win pace in 1994. It was all, Mike, though?

Quote:
I've never understood why people just dismiss this. Sure, baseball isn't basketball, but it clearly takes a toll on someone's body. People act like he was cryogenically frozen and then came back the same person and player he was the day he retired.

True, but part of the reason he isn't credited much is because he wasn't playing at the highest level or even the second-highest level. He was playing AA baseball. AA baseball is to baseball what the Arena League is to the NFL or the D-League to the NBA.

He deserve a lot of credit for coming back the first time and quickly resuming his throne as the best player in the league and even the second time he came off of playing absolutely no pro sports for 3 years to 26/5/5 before he got hurt.

The question is why did he retire twice? He was widely considered the best player in the league both in 1993 and 1998 and he walked away nonetheless. No other all-time NBA great has done this. I question whether Jordan in his 17th season could match Kobe in his 17th simply because Jordan was unable to maintain a motivation to play basketball let alone to continue to play at a high level. This is what makes Kareem so impressive and why his GOAT case should not be so casually dismissed. KAJ showed up year after year dedicated to playing at a high level--and did so. He was top 5 in MVP voting and all-NBA first time when he was 38/39. In the playoffs as a 40 year old he was scoring nearly 20 a game.

Quote:
32/5/5 50% vs 28/5/3 46%. really hard choice.

True. Jordan fans love to invoke these numbers versus Kobe but ignore them vis-a-vis Kareem. Kareem's career numbers--playing from 1969 to 1989--are 25/11/4/3 on 56%. Since MJ only played during 15 years let's compare Kareem through 15 seasons with MJ: 27/13/4/3 on 56%.

27/13/4/3 blocks on 56%>32/5/5 on 50%, no? Do the extra 5 points offset an additional 8 rebounds and only one less assist?

Last edited by Roundball_Rock : 01-08-2013 at 06:40 PM.
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