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Old 12-25-2012, 01:58 AM   #16
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Default Re: Who would you build around - Blake Griffin or James Harden?

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Originally Posted by Whoah10115
They're both first options and I'm rather unsure why people like to think otherwise...and people say I speak unequivocally.

Both are great and neither one is selfish. Whichever you pick, you're good.

Love your posting lately . I agree that it's the opposite of what people are saying here. I think BOTH are going to be career first options. During this win streak Griffin has been the Clippers undisputed go to scorer and is starting to look like he could be the first option long term. LOL at somebody saying they aren't sure if he's a franchise player.

Harden is the same thing... not much of a chance to prove himself yet as the undisputed first option but will develop into a superstar and perennial 25 ppg scorer who can put the team on his back. I'll pick Griffin because his defensive improvements have been huge and Harden still hasn't touched his D but both are franchise players and perennial all star types.
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Old 12-25-2012, 02:03 AM   #17
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Default Re: Who would you build around - Blake Griffin or James Harden?

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Originally Posted by Batz
Put them in a scenario lets say... Playoffs, big game, must-win, are either of them really stepping it up that much? Sorry? Are you thinking this over? It's questionable is it not? Interesting...


So yeah, they're not necessarily 'first' options.



Why not? It's a hunch you have but it isn't based on any fact. What is fact is that both have played at star level and certainly have shown 1st option quality. The rest is hypothetical and subjective...you may even turn out to be right with your playoff scenario, and everyone has a right to take on their own personal hunches..but I do think people base a lot opinions on pre-conceived notions that derive from personal preferences. I think a lot of people here are doing that with these two players.
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Old 12-25-2012, 02:06 AM   #18
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Default Re: Who would you build around - Blake Griffin or James Harden?

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Originally Posted by Whoah10115
Why not? It's a hunch you have but it isn't based on any fact. What is fact is that have played at star level and certainly have shown 1st option quality. The rest is hypothetical and subjective...you may even turn out to be right with your playoff scenario, and everyone has a right to take on their own personal hunches..but I do think people base a lot opinions on pre-conceived notions that derive from personal preferences. I think a lot of people here are doing that with these two players.
You do realize that all of this is hypothetical and subjective... Nothing more, nothing less, right?
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Old 12-25-2012, 02:09 AM   #19
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Default Re: Who would you build around - Blake Griffin or James Harden?

both are clearly first options on good teams, they are both likely never going to reach lebron championship first option area though.
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Old 12-25-2012, 02:14 AM   #20
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Default Re: Who would you build around - Blake Griffin or James Harden?

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Originally Posted by Whoah10115
Why not? It's a hunch you have but it isn't based on any fact. What is fact is that both have played at star level and certainly have shown 1st option quality. The rest is hypothetical and subjective...you may even turn out to be right with your playoff scenario, and everyone has a right to take on their own personal hunches..but I do think people base a lot opinions on pre-conceived notions that derive from personal preferences. I think a lot of people here are doing that with these two players.

. It's more funny because Blake got 1 year to show himself as a 1st option where he put up 22.5 ppg on a bad team... team adds CP3 very next year and now it's "Blake isn't capable of being a first option and is carried by CP3". Like seriously people need to wake up with stuff like that.
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Old 12-25-2012, 02:32 AM   #21
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Default Re: Who would you build around - Blake Griffin or James Harden?

This is an odd comparison to say the least. It depends on the makeup of my team. If i allready have a solid wing i'll go with Blake ad if i allready have a solid front rotation with James.

James started like a house on fire ad then teams starting setting defensive game plans for him and he has responded in immaculate fashion after struggling a bit. In the last nine games he is averaging 32 points 6 assists 4 boards on almost 60% shooting and only averaging 13 shots to get his 32 points.
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Old 12-25-2012, 02:35 AM   #22
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Default Re: Who would you build around - Blake Griffin or James Harden?

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Originally Posted by spiegel
This is an odd comparison to say the least. It depends on the makeup of my team.

I think the question is if you were making a team which player would you pick first, so which player has more upside and is easier to build around.
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Old 12-25-2012, 02:36 AM   #23
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Default Re: Who would you build around - Blake Griffin or James Harden?

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Originally Posted by spiegel
This is an odd comparison to say the least. It depends on the makeup of my team. If i allready have a solid wing i'll go with Blake ad if i allready have a solid front rotation with James.

James started like a house on fire ad then teams starting setting defensive game plans for him and he has responded in immaculate fashion after struggling a bit. In the last nine games he is averaging 32 points 6 assists 4 boards on almost 60% shooting and only averaging 13 shots to get his 32 points.


Not sure if this is a good thing really. Basically means he's living at the free throw line which has everything to do with how he's reffed. Griffin for example has to get murdered just to get free throws. I suppose the fact that refs like/respect Harden WAY more than Griffin would pay off in most situations though.
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Old 12-25-2012, 02:36 AM   #24
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Default Re: Who would you build around - Blake Griffin or James Harden?

Just because there are 30 teams, that doesnt means theres 30 first options in my opinion. There are only like 15-20 players that are first options and can lead a team. I think Blake can be a solid two option and Harden can be a low end first option
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Old 12-25-2012, 02:39 AM   #25
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Default Re: Who would you build around - Blake Griffin or James Harden?

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Originally Posted by Clippersfan86
[/b]

Not sure if this is a good thing really. Basically means he's living at the free throw line which has everything to do with how he's reffed. Griffin for example has to get murdered just to get free throws. I suppose the fact that refs like/respect Harden WAY more than Griffin would pay off in most situations though.
Thats an art form. The more fouls he draws, the less defence can be aggressive on his team on offence.It means he is constantly putting pressure on the defence. AI, Pierce and Kobe made that an art form. Reggie Miller is another one who made his living like that. Great players have that knack.
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Old 12-25-2012, 02:43 AM   #26
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Default Re: Who would you build around - Blake Griffin or James Harden?

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Originally Posted by spiegel
Thats an art form. The more fouls he draws, the less defence can be aggressive on his team on offence.It means he is constantly putting pressure on the defence. AI, Pierce and Kobe made that an art form. Reggie Miller is another one who made his living like that. Great players have that knack.

Has a lot to do with reffing as I said and the fact that he flies every time he gets hit. Bigmen have to get murdered to get fouls called for them, especially physically dominant ones (Dwight mastered the Ayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyye! to offset that). Like I said though that is one thing he has over Griffin as a first option is the ability to draw fouls any time he wants. Griffin can get punched in the face, tackled from behind etc and not get a foul call (look on Youtube for yourself).
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Old 12-25-2012, 02:47 AM   #27
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Default Re: Who would you build around - Blake Griffin or James Harden?

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Originally Posted by Clippersfan86
Has a lot to do with reffing as I said and the fact that he flies every time he gets hit. Bigmen have to get murdered to get fouls called for them, especially physically dominant ones (Dwight mastered the Ayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyye! to offset that). Like I said though that is one thing he has over Griffin as a first option is the ability to draw fouls any time he wants. Griffin can get punched in the face, tackled from behind etc and not get a foul call (look on Youtube for yourself).
It has alot to do with Harden attacking the defence. If you watch some of the games, Harden continuesly attacks the gut and looks to bull his way to the basket. He is fantastic at attacking the gut to either creat his own shot or play the kickout.If anything for the amount of times he does that, he dosent get enough calls.

Harden is on of the top 2 or 3 players at attacking the basket and his euro step makes it virtually impossible to guard him in that mindset.
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Old 12-25-2012, 02:51 AM   #28
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Default Re: Who would you build around - Blake Griffin or James Harden?

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Originally Posted by Clippersfan86
Has a lot to do with reffing as I said and the fact that he flies every time he gets hit. Bigmen have to get murdered to get fouls called for them, especially physically dominant ones (Dwight mastered the Ayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyye! to offset that). Like I said though that is one thing he has over Griffin as a first option is the ability to draw fouls any time he wants. Griffin can get punched in the face, tackled from behind etc and not get a foul call (look on Youtube for yourself).
Harden knows how to draw contact. Since he's always barreling at the rim from 30 feet out and knows how to perfectly use the euro step he can manipulate still defenders positions so that they can't block the shot and have to foul or let him lay it in. He also keeps his dribble real low and sweeps up if anyone reaches.. Literally a Master at drawing contact.

Griffin doesn't know how to attack defenders like that.. Plus if he's near the basket you might as well just get out the way entirely.
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Old 12-25-2012, 02:52 AM   #29
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Default Re: Who would you build around - Blake Griffin or James Harden?

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Originally Posted by tpols
Harden knows how to draw contact. Since he's always barreling at the rim from 30 feet out and knows how to perfectly use the same euro step he can manipulate still defenders positions so that they can't block the shot and have to foul or let him lay it in.

Griffin doesn't know how to attack defenders like that.. Plus if he's near the basket you might as well just get out the way entirely.

I agree bottom line is Harden= better at drawing fouls. I think that's probably the big edge he has as a first option. The main edge Griffin has is consistency. It's very very rare for Griffin to have an under 15 point game, Harden on the other hand is more prone to that streaky play (normal for bigs vs wings comparison).
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Old 12-25-2012, 02:54 AM   #30
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Default Re: Who would you build around - Blake Griffin or James Harden?

Harden seems to have more growth in his game + bball IQ.

Blake needs to get over that hump and control the ball more instead of waiting for Paul for tug on his leash.
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