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Old 12-28-2012, 03:20 PM   #31
InspiredLebowski
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Default Re: Should Mavs go full out tank mode for the year?

I do think they should trade Marion. He's still able to give good minutes and is still really versatile defensively. His contract's not all that great so I don't think he has a TON of value or anything, but still value. Expiring + 1st kinda deal.
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Old 12-28-2012, 03:23 PM   #32
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Default Re: Should Mavs go full out tank mode for the year?

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Originally Posted by wakencdukest
Jesus Christ Dallas, just go out and buy some stars next season like you've been doing for the past 10 years.


This strategy isn't going to work anymore. You need to stockpile young players (draft) and then buy a superstar or veterans when you're ready to win. You then get 4 years to get it done, before the new luxury tax will force the team to break-up.

The current strategy of just signing vets, or resigning players (bird rights) and blowing over the cap season after season is coming to an end. Winning championships through free agency alone is going to be near impossible with the new CBA.
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Old 12-28-2012, 03:26 PM   #33
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Default Re: Should Mavs go full out tank mode for the year?

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Originally Posted by bdreason
This strategy isn't going to work anymore. You need to stockpile young players (draft) and then buy a superstar or veterans when you're ready to win. You then get 4 years to get it done, before the new luxury tax will force the team to break-up.

The current strategy of just signing vets, or resigning players (bird rights) and blowing over the cap season after season is coming to an end. Winning championships through free agency alone is going to be near impossible with the new CBA.
This is what I've been trying to tell people, it's just going to take time. The repeater taxes aren't going to fix everything, but they're going to be a big detriment. And if Prokorhov and Buss and whomever still doesn't care about paying it, well, what the hell else do you want the league to do? And a hard cap's not ever happening, so don't even say it.
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Old 12-28-2012, 03:31 PM   #34
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Default Re: Should Mavs go full out tank mode for the year?

they're 3 games outside of the 8 seed right now ... they should see where they stand among houston, denver, portland, minnesota, utah, and lakers at all star break and then go from there.

I think they're probably better than houston, utah, and portland ... even if only because of dirk.

dirk looked slow as heck last night, but he obviously needs some time to get into shape.
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Old 12-28-2012, 03:32 PM   #35
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Default Re: Should Mavs go full out tank mode for the year?

western playoffs are tough this year. okc, memphis, sa, and clippers are hogging up 4 spots, and then you have a bunch of decent (42-50ish win teams) trying to get the last spots
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Old 12-28-2012, 03:45 PM   #36
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Default Re: Should Mavs go full out tank mode for the year?

I will be anxious to see how the team starts playing with Dirk uping his minutes the next two weeks. You could already see it last night where just the mere fact that Dirk is on the court allows this team to be that much better on offense.

If Elton Brand sets a pick for Collison at the top of the three point line, no one is fearful of Brand putting up a 20 footer. You switch to Dirk, they aren't leaving him from 25 feet out, much less 20.

I still don't see them as a contender status once Dirk is fully healthy. I'd like to see the Mavs trade Mayo if they can get a young player or a pick. I really would rather see Dahntay, Vince, or CDR play SG over Mayo for just defense and spot up shooting because that is what Mayo has been essentially providing.

I'm not saying Mayo is bad, but he's pretty much a spot up shooter at this point, is not aggressive on a consistent basis and his shooting motion takes too long to manufacture for my taste. I think Memphis had him pegged correctly as a 6th man off the bench who can do some good things in limited time. Him as a number 1 or 2 guy? .... i don't see it in the cards.

But this talk of trading Dirk is silly. Dirk doesn't want to be traded and Cuban won't trade him anyways. If Dirk had yet to win a title, I could see them entertaining it, but this team can be totally different after this next off season with the cap room and free agents possibly available.
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Old 12-28-2012, 03:52 PM   #37
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Default Re: Should Mavs go full out tank mode for the year?

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Originally Posted by shortsoptional
I will be anxious to see how the team starts playing with Dirk uping his minutes the next two weeks. You could already see it last night where just the mere fact that Dirk is on the court allows this team to be that much better on offense.

If Elton Brand sets a pick for Collison at the top of the three point line, no one is fearful of Brand putting up a 20 footer. You switch to Dirk, they aren't leaving him from 25 feet out, much less 20.

I still don't see them as a contender status once Dirk is fully healthy. I'd like to see the Mavs trade Mayo if they can get a young player or a pick. I really would rather see Dahntay, Vince, or CDR play SG over Mayo for just defense and spot up shooting because that is what Mayo has been essentially providing.

I'm not saying Mayo is bad, but he's pretty much a spot up shooter at this point, is not aggressive on a consistent basis and his shooting motion takes too long to manufacture for my taste. I think Memphis had him pegged correctly as a 6th man off the bench who can do some good things in limited time. Him as a number 1 or 2 guy? .... i don't see it in the cards.

But this talk of trading Dirk is silly. Dirk doesn't want to be traded and Cuban won't trade him anyways. If Dirk had yet to win a title, I could see them entertaining it, but this team can be totally different after this next off season with the cap room and free agents possibly available.

yeah, I think trading mayo for someone more athletic would be a good idea ...

two big problems I see with this team:
1.) darren collison doesn't run the team well ... doesn't have a great point guard brain, it seems like
2.) dirk and kaman make for an awfully slow footed front court ...
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Old 12-28-2012, 04:08 PM   #38
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Default Re: Should Mavs go full out tank mode for the year?

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Originally Posted by knickswin
yeah, I think trading mayo for someone more athletic would be a good idea ...

two big problems I see with this team:
1.) darren collison doesn't run the team well ... doesn't have a great point guard brain, it seems like
2.) dirk and kaman make for an awfully slow footed front court ...

Yea... Kaman is definitely slow on defense. And that wouldn't be so bad since he's so long, but he doesn't anticipate well. Dirk on the other hand, he will at least be in position and contest a shot. Despite the stigma that Dirk doesn't play defense, I still think he's decent. I think the fact that he doesn't block shots makes people think he's bad on defense. But he's smart and usually in position, which is a lot better than half the guys who commit fouls trying to get a block.

I somewhat agree with your view on Collison broadly, but I do think he does SOME good things. When he's attacking and being aggressive, it opens up the offense and allows him to run P&R decently. But it's the little things that he does not do well at all...just simply passing the ball in to the post is a problem for him. His size doesn't allow him to drop the ball down in there, and it's like that for other point guards, but they do things like pump fakes and look-offs to get a passing lane. He does not. You really see the value of a Jason Kidd when he's gone from your team. I never used to worry about holding the ball for the last shot, setting up Dirk in the post (or simply just getting him the ball for that matter) or telling guys where to go in the offense. Last night, Dirk was having to SCREAM at Elton Brand to come set a screen for Collison as he just sat there dribbling the ball.

All that said, Collison is not the long term solution. CF86 (god rest his soul) made a thread about "would you trade Mayo for Bledsoe"... i stated in that thread i would and i feel even stronger about that today. Not because I think Bledsoe is going to be the next big thing, but i'd rather see if he can be the PG of the future right now because i know Mayo and Collison are not or should not be long term solutions.
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Old 12-28-2012, 04:20 PM   #39
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Default Re: Should Mavs go full out tank mode for the year?

Quote:
Originally Posted by shortsoptional
Yea... Kaman is definitely slow on defense. And that wouldn't be so bad since he's so long, but he doesn't anticipate well. Dirk on the other hand, he will at least be in position and contest a shot. Despite the stigma that Dirk doesn't play defense, I still think he's decent. I think the fact that he doesn't block shots makes people think he's bad on defense. But he's smart and usually in position, which is a lot better than half the guys who commit fouls trying to get a block.

I somewhat agree with your view on Collison broadly, but I do think he does SOME good things. When he's attacking and being aggressive, it opens up the offense and allows him to run P&R decently. But it's the little things that he does not do well at all...just simply passing the ball in to the post is a problem for him. His size doesn't allow him to drop the ball down in there, and it's like that for other point guards, but they do things like pump fakes and look-offs to get a passing lane. He does not. You really see the value of a Jason Kidd when he's gone from your team. I never used to worry about holding the ball for the last shot, setting up Dirk in the post (or simply just getting him the ball for that matter) or telling guys where to go in the offense. Last night, Dirk was having to SCREAM at Elton Brand to come set a screen for Collison as he just sat there dribbling the ball.

All that said, Collison is not the long term solution. CF86 (god rest his soul) made a thread about "would you trade Mayo for Bledsoe"... i stated in that thread i would and i feel even stronger about that today. Not because I think Bledsoe is going to be the next big thing, but i'd rather see if he can be the PG of the future right now because i know Mayo and Collison are not or should not be long term solutions.

yeah, I don't think dirk is a bad defender, but I think putting him next to kaman is a recipe for disaster on defense ... they're just too slow guarding pick and rolls and can't handle a front court with athleticism

I think collison would have been alright had they kept kidd around to babysit him, but he just seemed clueless at times last night. I saw what you were talking about ... too often toward the end of the game they wasted 10 seconds off the shot clock with collison or mayo just dribbling, not knowing what to do ... seems like the answer is pretty simple ... pick and roll with dirk, kaman, or brand and then go from there.
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Old 12-28-2012, 04:28 PM   #40
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Default Re: Should Mavs go full out tank mode for the year?

I'd sit Dirk for the rest of the year with an "injury", trade away any big expiring contracts, shed salary and tank. Try to rebuild for next season with cheap young talent, a couple solid prime role players and with a rested and rejuvenated Dirk and a better OJ Mayo.
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Old 12-28-2012, 04:42 PM   #41
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Default Re: Should Mavs go full out tank mode for the year?

Quote:
Originally Posted by knickswin
yeah, I don't think dirk is a bad defender, but I think putting him next to kaman is a recipe for disaster on defense ... they're just too slow guarding pick and rolls and can't handle a front court with athleticism

I think collison would have been alright had they kept kidd around to babysit him, but he just seemed clueless at times last night. I saw what you were talking about ... too often toward the end of the game they wasted 10 seconds off the shot clock with collison or mayo just dribbling, not knowing what to do ... seems like the answer is pretty simple ... pick and roll with dirk, kaman, or brand and then go from there.

For sure... yea... Kaman and Dirk defensively is not ideal, especially against athletic front courts. Actually really liked what i saw last night with Brand at C when Dirk was the PF. Though not as good offensively as Kaman, defensively much much better.

The pick n roll with Dirk and anyone should be gravy, but apparently Mayo doesn't know how to pass out of a trap or even just get off a pass with a strong defender on him. Collison the same...it's as if they spent all their time learning basketball doing fadeaways and cool layups as opposed to fundamental passing and dribbling.
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Old 12-28-2012, 10:04 PM   #42
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Default Re: Should Mavs go full out tank mode for the year?

You want a league where there is absolutely no loyalty and most teams want to lose games?
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Old 12-28-2012, 11:38 PM   #43
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Default Re: Should Mavs go full out tank mode for the year?

Lost to Denver ****
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Old 12-28-2012, 11:47 PM   #44
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Default Re: Should Mavs go full out tank mode for the year?

Mavs will never trade Dirk nor will Dirk ever leave Dallas..

Mavs will tank once Dirk leaves unless they pick up a big name, which is highly unlikely.
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