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Old 12-31-2012, 10:35 PM   #31
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Default Re: The difference 1 or 2 games make

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Originally Posted by elementally morale
I believe you. He may have become better due to that game.

But then again... how was he able to perform at that level in that game if he wasn't good enough before that game to do so? Or was he? Which is it? One or the other? Was it him being good enough enabling him to play good enough to become even better than he actually was? Or was he simply lucky?

All players have certain talent, certain skills, some capabilities. For example, one player can hit 35 3pts in a row in a practice. He s a great shooter, but during games, he cant hit his shots. He cant show his full talent because some mental setbacks. THen, you have another player that hit 30 3pts in a row during practice and this player can actually use his talent during games because he is tougher mentally. Player 2 is better than player 1 because he can use his talent in game situations. One person may have all the talent in the world, but he cant show use his talent with it s time to use, then, that person isnt a great player.

Lebron had the talent to take over and win the championship both in 2011 and 2012. In 2012, he became a better player because he was able to use his talent. He showed the ability to perform in big situations. So, 1 or 2 games make a difference.
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Old 12-31-2012, 10:35 PM   #32
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Default Re: The difference 1 or 2 games make

I have another player on my mind. Ewing.

Actually, I never thought he was THAT good but he got fairly close to winning a ring one time. Had they won, it would have made a huge difference in the way we think about him. And about Hakeem, even moreso.
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Old 12-31-2012, 10:35 PM   #33
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Default Re: The difference 1 or 2 games make

" I look back at my career...and there were five 7th games in playoff series. Five times I lost, four of them by a total of nine points. Now think about that. Nine points going the other way, and I might have had four or five more championship rings. So I sometimes get a little frustrated when I hear people talk about, "Yeah, well you only won two." I could have won seven, but I've been the same player."

--Wilt Chamberlain

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Old 12-31-2012, 10:36 PM   #34
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Default Re: The difference 1 or 2 games make

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Originally Posted by elementally morale
It was my mistake. Bad wording. Still, this is a minor point. With a win over the Spurs... it would have done wonders for Sheed. With another win over the Lakers both Pierce and Garnett would be viewd differently. They were all damn close.

Imo Sheed would still be more remebered for not living up to potential rather than the two rings.
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Old 12-31-2012, 10:40 PM   #35
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Default Re: The difference 1 or 2 games make

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Originally Posted by livinglegend
Lebron had the talent to take over and win the championship both in 2011 and 2012. In 2012, he became a better player because he was able to use his talent. He showed the ability to perform in big situations. So, 1 or 2 games make a difference.

I like this reasoning when we talk about a first timer to something. Now what if we have a player like Kobe? Been there, done that. All of a suddden, he has ring #5. Is he any better?

Because if he somehow wins #6... you know what will follow...
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Old 12-31-2012, 10:46 PM   #36
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Default Re: The difference 1 or 2 games make

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" I look back at my career...and there were five 7th games in playoff series. Five times I lost, four of them by a total of nine points. Now think about that. Nine points going the other way, and I might have had four or five more championship rings. So I sometimes get a little frustrated when I hear people talk about, "Yeah, well you only won two." I could have won seven, but I've been the same player."

--Wilt Chamberlain

Link

It's natural he felt that way. After all, it would sound crazy to say: "Well, yeah... I lost all 5 games. It pains me to think about how much better I could have become... and I didn't. I may be good but could have been a lot better."

On another note, I'm not American -- and I know this to also be a cultural thing. In the American way of life, winning is everything (and if not, it is the only thing). It's mainly because the US won pretty much everything in the last century or so. In Europe, pure effort is given a bit more credit. And in Asia, way more.
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Old 12-31-2012, 10:49 PM   #37
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Default Re: The difference 1 or 2 games make

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Originally Posted by elementally morale
I like this reasoning when we talk about a first timer to something. Now what if we have a player like Kobe? Been there, done that. All of a suddden, he has ring #5. Is he any better?

Because if he somehow wins #6... you know what will follow...

It s hard to do a great thing one time, and it s harder to do it 2 times. So, if one player give big performances multiple times and another gives one time. The player that played great multiple times will be better.
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Old 12-31-2012, 10:50 PM   #38
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Default Re: The difference 1 or 2 games make

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I'm not going to argue too much about this, it is rather irrelevant in my eyes. Kobe has had enough great performances to have become an all-time great. And he didn't have a good game that day. The effort was there but they could easily have lost the championship. Suppose it goes down as a loss for the Lakers. Is Kobe any worse as a result? So is he any better now, that he has 5 rings and not 4?

Hell yeah he's better

Kobe would definitely be a worse player if he only had 4.
Imagine the criticism going around if Kobe had lost his last
final appearance with HCA on a game 7 against the Celtics
who just beat them in a finals less then 2 years prior?

That means only one ring as the "Man"
3 finals losses
only 1 finals mvp
yeah that win meant that much.

I love Kobe but i can be unbias and say that if he lost
he would of went down as a player in the rankings.
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Old 12-31-2012, 10:52 PM   #39
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Default Re: The difference 1 or 2 games make

OK.

It's 5 AM here, I'm going to bed. Thanks for the replies and the civilized manner.
Happy New Year Everybody.

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Old 12-31-2012, 10:54 PM   #40
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Default Re: The difference 1 or 2 games make

People don't like to accept that the unfolding of history is unpredictable, so they retroactively invent explanations for everything that happens. If things happen to go your way, people will believe that you're favored by the gods. If things don't go your way, you must be lacking in some intangible quality. This has been going on for all of recorded history, and presumably started long before that.
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Old 01-01-2013, 02:02 AM   #41
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Default Re: The difference 1 or 2 games make

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Originally Posted by TylerOO
That MONSTROUS game 6. That frightening look of anger and determination I've NEVER seen from Bron before. Reminded me of MJ's game 7 v.s. the Knicks in '92. Guy was on another level.

It wasn't the skill of the man that day, it was the WILL of the man. Which sometimes, is essentially more important.

Everything was on the line for the guy. The season, the last remaining good will on his rep as a ball player.

He goes out, has the game of his life, on the road against the next best defense in the entire league. Destroys them entirely on his own. He was the SOLE reason they blew the Celtics out that night.

Could've easily got 50+ that game if it was more competitive, and he looked to score.

Then he backed it up with stellar play in game 7, culminating in that clutch long distance 3 to put away the Celtics. He also had a few games in the Finals where he showed up big.

I have given the guy grief, that was WELL deserved. But this performance was utterly ridiculous.

Then it must have given him some sort of confidence boost, because he carried it over to Team USA, too.

Totally saved our country in two games with absolute domination individually over ENTIRE teams when we needed it most, to save us from embarrassing losses.

v.s. Brazil and v.s. Lithuania he went into all out BEAST mode.
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Old 01-01-2013, 02:29 AM   #42
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Default Re: The difference 1 or 2 games make

Will rep this when I can.

Great points.
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Old 01-01-2013, 06:12 AM   #43
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Default Re: The difference 1 or 2 games make

Quote:
Originally Posted by Money 23
That MONSTROUS game 6. That frightening look of anger and determination I've NEVER seen from Bron before. Reminded me of MJ's game 7 v.s. the Knicks in '92. Guy was on another level.

It wasn't the skill of the man that day, it was the WILL of the man. Which sometimes, is essentially more important.

Everything was on the line for the guy. The season, the last remaining good will on his rep as a ball player.

He goes out, has the game of his life, on the road against the next best defense in the entire league. Destroys them entirely on his own. He was the SOLE reason they blew the Celtics out that night.

Could've easily got 50+ that game if it was more competitive, and he looked to score.

Then he backed it up with stellar play in game 7, culminating in that clutch long distance 3 to put away the Celtics. He also had a few games in the Finals where he showed up big.

I have given the guy grief, that was WELL deserved. But this performance was utterly ridiculous.

Then it must have given him some sort of confidence boost, because he carried it over to Team USA, too.

Totally saved our country in two games with absolute domination individually over ENTIRE teams when we needed it most, to save us from embarrassing losses.

v.s. Brazil and v.s. Lithuania he went into all out BEAST mode.

this! that game 6 was gonna make or break lebron on that day. and it made him. now he's as confident as ever. watch out!!
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Old 01-01-2013, 06:20 AM   #44
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Default Re: The difference 1 or 2 games make

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this! that game 6 was gonna make or break lebron on that day. and it made him. now he's as confident as ever. watch out!!

Let's assume for a minute he loses that day. He wouldn't have the fame he has now, sure. But what difference would it make other than that? For example, a year ago he was not yet a champion but most of ISH said he was the best player in the NBA despite him not having had the greatest of Finals performances against the Mavs a year earlier. He didn't break after those Finals games. What makes you think he would have broken last year if they had lost to the Celtics?
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Old 01-01-2013, 07:05 AM   #45
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Default Re: The difference 1 or 2 games make

would coulda shouldas don't work in the NBA because everything happens 100 percent according to fate's plan. It's called determinism
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