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Old 01-02-2013, 01:28 AM   #16
Jello
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Default Re: CBO: Fiscal Cliff Deal Ads Nearly $4 Trillion To The Deficit Over The Next 10 Years

Quote:
Originally Posted by kentatm
pretty sure he has never said that is the only thing needed.
Pretty sure KevinNYC loves the donkey dick and Obama. Their whole sticking point is that the big bad rich aren't paying their "fair share" while providing more social services than they can afford. Here's a novel idea, stop playing ****ing politics and solve the problem. We have to reduce expenditures and raise taxes. A balanced budget. That has a nice ring to it, doesn't it?
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Old 01-02-2013, 03:12 AM   #17
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Default Re: CBO: Fiscal Cliff Deal Ads Nearly $4 Trillion To The Deficit Over The Next 10 Years

Quote:
Originally Posted by boozehound
this is pure hogwash with no basis in economic reality. Almost every economist agrees that tax rates (still significantly lower that almost everywhere else that is an industrialized country) on personal income have nothing to do with restricting the economy or derailing job growth. Its empty rhetoric.

Every economist except any of the Austrian School or of many other schools.

Do you take pleasure in making ridiculously blanket statements followed by three incredibly inaccurate claims?
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Old 01-02-2013, 11:01 AM   #18
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Default Re: CBO: Fiscal Cliff Deal Ads Nearly $4 Trillion To The Deficit Over The Next 10 Years

Im always amused when someone who wants to raise taxes on themselves is said to be villainizing the rich.
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Old 01-02-2013, 03:49 PM   #19
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Default Re: CBO: Fiscal Cliff Deal Ads Nearly $4 Trillion To The Deficit Over The Next 10 Years

I feel like an idiot.

This bill is not adding 4 trillion. CBO was using the over the cliff numbers as it's baseline. Baseline was never going last more than a day or two.
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Old 01-02-2013, 03:50 PM   #20
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Default Re: CBO: Fiscal Cliff Deal Ads Nearly $4 Trillion To The Deficit Over The Next 10 Years

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Originally Posted by longhornfan1234
I feel like an idiot. :

I imagine you tell yourself this several times a day.
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Old 01-02-2013, 04:35 PM   #21
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Default Re: CBO: Fiscal Cliff Deal Ads Nearly $4 Trillion To The Deficit Over The Next 10 Years

I'm only 14 so could someone explain this fiscal cliff stuff to me in a simple manner?
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Old 01-02-2013, 06:19 PM   #22
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Default Re: CBO: Fiscal Cliff Deal Ads Nearly $4 Trillion To The Deficit Over The Next 10 Years

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinNYC
It never fails does it?



Also, it would be nice to remember why we didn't want to go over the "fiscal cliff." The reason it would be bad, is it would LOWER THE DEBT TOO FAST. Which would be a contractionary shock to the economy. One reason our economy is growing at a weak rate, is we have a lot of private citizens paying down their debt. Money that is paying down debt is not used to buy goods or services, so if on top of this private debt deleveraing, we added public debt deleveraging, our economy would stop growing. This is what has happened in Europe where countries implemented austerity measures, their debt has actually gotten worse because their economies started contracting. The solution ended up making the problem worse.

People keep wanting to pretend that what Keynes had to say can be ignored, but he keeps making himself relevant, doesn't he?
lol no, those countries are so far away from starting to pay the debt. They are still trying to control the deficit, and they did it the worst possible way, by raising taxes on a already fragile economy!

It's ridiculous, basically they destroyed the economy by raising taxes, trying to lower the debt, the economy being the origin of revenue that will pay the debt, makes no sense. That also led to unemployment and increase on spenditure with them.

Debt is not a problem if you have means to pay it. You just don't hurt the means you have to pay the debt by trying to pay the debt.
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Old 01-02-2013, 06:23 PM   #23
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Default Re: CBO: Fiscal Cliff Deal Ads Nearly $4 Trillion To The Deficit Over The Next 10 Years

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jameerthefear
I'm only 14 so could someone explain this fiscal cliff stuff to me in a simple manner?

Article is a little old and before the election, but should get you on the right track...
http://www.forbes.com/sites/anthonyn...f-for-dummies/

Last edited by Niytrus : 01-02-2013 at 06:27 PM.
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Old 01-02-2013, 07:01 PM   #24
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Default Re: CBO: Fiscal Cliff Deal Ads Nearly $4 Trillion To The Deficit Over The Next 10 Years

Quote:
Originally Posted by longhornfan1234
I feel like an idiot.

This bill is not adding 4 trillion. CBO was using the over the cliff numbers as it's baseline. Baseline was never going last more than a day or two.

You could try reading the first couple sentences next time...
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Old 01-02-2013, 07:49 PM   #25
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Default Re: CBO: Fiscal Cliff Deal Ads Nearly $4 Trillion To The Deficit Over The Next 10 Years

Quote:
Originally Posted by longhornfan1234
I feel like an idiot.

This bill is not adding 4 trillion. CBO was using the over the cliff numbers as it's baseline. Baseline was never going last more than a day or two.


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Old 01-02-2013, 09:27 PM   #26
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Default Re: CBO: Fiscal Cliff Deal Ads Nearly $4 Trillion To The Deficit Over The Next 10 Years

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue&Orange
lol no, those countries are so far away from starting to pay the debt. They are still trying to control the deficit, and they did it the worst possible way, by raising taxes on a already fragile economy!

It's ridiculous, basically they destroyed the economy by raising taxes, trying to lower the debt, the economy being the origin of revenue that will pay the debt, makes no sense. That also led to unemployment and increase on spenditure with them.

Debt is not a problem if you have means to pay it. You just don't hurt the means you have to pay the debt by trying to pay the debt.

You are right that those countries are cutting their deficits, and will still be deficit spending for some time. However, they did not just raise taxes. Spain raised taxes on income over 120,000 euros, but they also had large cuts in spending. Here's what they passed in Sept 2010 for 2011
Quote:
The key provisions of the budget include:

overall spending cut of 7.7%, to 122bn euros ($164bn, £104bn)
departmental spending cuts of about 16%
government worker pay cut of 5%
tax rise for personal income above 120,000 euros.

There were further spending cuts in the 2012 budget.

Here we are in Dec 2012. Check out these pictures protesting the 2013 austerity measures.

That is not just about tax increases.

Last edited by KevinNYC : 01-02-2013 at 09:31 PM.
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Old 01-02-2013, 09:37 PM   #27
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Default Re: CBO: Fiscal Cliff Deal Ads Nearly $4 Trillion To The Deficit Over The Next 10 Years

If we have a deficit, that would mean an increase in the national debt correct?
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Old 01-02-2013, 10:31 PM   #28
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Default Re: CBO: Fiscal Cliff Deal Ads Nearly $4 Trillion To The Deficit Over The Next 10 Years

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jello
"lower the debt too fast" You're dumb as shit. The fiscal cliff would only reduce a part of the deficit, not the debt. The fiscal cliff only limits how fast our public debt grows, it does not deleverage public debt. But of course everything will be solved by raising the top marginal tax rate. Yep.

My point was about the self-defeating policies of the austerity now crowd. The folks who made the debt a more important issue than employment. The folks like the Tea Party wing of the Republican Party who actually wanted 9 trillion dollars in cuts. The whole bunch of folks who have bought into a Wall Street billionaire's jihad against Social Security. The folks who have argued against Keynesian stimulus for years now, now faced the prospect of crashing the economic recovery.

The fiscal cliff by itself doesn't do anything, it's just the name for a series of distinct tax and spending laws that would all take affect at the same time. Here's the quote from Ben Bernanke "fiscal cliff" speech.
Quote:
“Under current law, on Jan. 1, 2013, there’s going to be a massive fiscal cliff of large spending cuts and tax increases,” Bernanke told the House Financial Services Committee. “I hope that Congress will look at that and figure out ways to achieve the same long-run fiscal improvement without having it all happen at one date.

“All those things are hitting on the same day, basically. It’s quite a big event.”
Reuters described it just as I did, an issue of austerity.
Quote:
BERNANKE ON DANGER OF FISCAL AUSTERITY:

"I have expressed concerns about what would happen on January 1st (2013), which would be a major fiscal contraction. I think it would pose a risk to the recovery. What I have advocated is a two-part process, one which is critical that we have a sustainable path going forward in the medium and long term, but that at the same time we pay attention to the recovery and make sure we don't snuff it ... unintentionally."

The point is that as Bernanke points out, the debt is a long term issue. Acting like its the most important, immediate thing to fix, is folly. Don't kill the short term economy when dealing with the long term.
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Old 01-03-2013, 01:32 AM   #29
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Default Re: CBO: Fiscal Cliff Deal Ads Nearly $4 Trillion To The Deficit Over The Next 10 Years

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jello
Pretty sure KevinNYC loves the donkey dick and Obama. Their whole sticking point is that the big bad rich aren't paying their "fair share" while providing more social services than they can afford. Here's a novel idea, stop playing ****ing politics and solve the problem. We have to reduce expenditures and raise taxes. A balanced budget. That has a nice ring to it, doesn't it?


Do people really believe the "rich" will pay more in taxes?
Even if you TOOK all the money the top 1 or 2% had you could probably run the government for at most 8 days.

Everyone knows the "rich" have loopholes and ways to avoid paying anything built into the laws.

It is the middle class and those who own small businesses who will suffer. You own a farm that on paper is worth 6 million dollars because of the land? You are "rich" and will have to sell that land to someone like Warren Buffet when your parents die to pay the "death taxes".

This was designed perfectly for those who are morons aka the "low information voter" and people who look at things from "eat the rich" point of view. 77% of Americans will be paying more taxes. Hollywood and Warren Buffett types got tax breaks. George Soros and other well established "progressive liberal" billionaires use offshore accounts accounting tricks like the Double Irish With a Dutch Sandwich or pay capital gains taxes.


Here's a video on how much the government actually spends... and how little "the rich" make in comparison:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=661pi6K-8WQ

Last edited by MJ23forever : 01-03-2013 at 01:36 AM.
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Old 01-03-2013, 02:04 AM   #30
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Default Re: CBO: Fiscal Cliff Deal Ads Nearly $4 Trillion To The Deficit Over The Next 10 Years

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ23forever
It is the middle class and those who own small businesses who will suffer. You own a farm that on paper is worth 6 million dollars because of the land? You are "rich" and will have to sell that land to someone like Warren Buffet when your parents die to pay the "death taxes".

Pace yourself. You have all year to post the dumbest statement of 2013.

Man, there is no quicker way to the poorhouse, than inheriting a 6 million dollar farm. If someone told me I inherited a 6 million dollar farm, I'd spit in the face and tell them to take that bullshit elsewhere before I knock them out.

A. If you own a 6 million dollar farm, you're not middle class.
B. People who are stupid enough to use the term "death taxes", always use this "we're going to lose the farm scenario." Please find me a single example where it has occurred. Here's a clue, if you have an asset worth 6 million dollars, you have ways of raising money.
C. Please tell me how much the taxes would be on the $6 million dollar farm.

Warren Buffet, file photo

Last edited by KevinNYC : 01-03-2013 at 02:09 AM.
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