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Old 01-02-2013, 09:59 PM   #16
shlver
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Default Re: This video kind of f*cked me up and changed my worldview a bit.

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Originally Posted by IamRAMBO24
This viewpoint is childish and lacks a philosophical foundation. These ideas have been expounded upon, debated, and pretty much held in high regard in the intellectual world from Berkeley, Hume, Hegel, and then to Kant.

It is nothing new; great thinkers have known this for years ever since Descartes utter the famous words, "I think therefore I am."

It is not that these concepts are "wrong" per se but more like your lack of understanding is completely atrocious and not worthy of serious consideration.

Stop being such a troll and let the intellectuals debate on a concept they are clearly more open to accept. F*ckin' hoodlum. Go back to your comic books and debate on whether or not wonder woman has bigger t*ts than cat woman.
There is no intellectual debate to be had. If they really are trying to extend that reality is just an illusion based on the fact that our experience of reality is just a construction of our brain, then that requires a leap of faith.
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Old 01-02-2013, 10:22 PM   #17
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Default Re: This video kind of f*cked me up and changed my worldview a bit.

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Originally Posted by miller-time
My lack of understanding? You don't even know what I know, or what I understand. What are you even talking about?

Have you read Descartes .. then Berkeley, then Hume, and moved on to Kant .. and if you are really a f*ckin genius, you would have read Hegel, Schopenhauer, Nietzche .. etc. (and no I'm not talking about cliff notes either).

The sh*t they are talking about isn't some new profound idea some redneck playing next to the pond water all of a sudden pondered upon. These ideas have been debated upon for thousands of years to reach the conclusion Kant manifested: the material reality are things in and of themselves (huge words I know) and we cannot know them for what they truly are since our perception is a by product of our mind.

Before you hate, educate yourself dumbsh*t. You sound like an elementary kid looking at a calculus book and calling it pseudo because you do not have an idea what "derivatives, integrals, functions, etc." really are.

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Old 01-02-2013, 10:27 PM   #18
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Default Re: This video kind of f*cked me up and changed my worldview a bit.

Didn't learn much and wasn't very exciting


future negs for the op i guess
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Old 01-02-2013, 10:31 PM   #19
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Default Re: This video kind of f*cked me up and changed my worldview a bit.

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Originally Posted by shlver
There is no intellectual debate to be had. If they really are trying to extend that reality is just an illusion based on the fact that our experience of reality is just a construction of our brain, then that requires a leap of faith.

It is a fact reality is a construction of the brain.

Kant gave a great example for noobs to truly grasp the concept: you have 5 instruments you use to view the reality you live in.

If you lose one of the instrument (for example vision) then your reality is limited to only 4 senses and you do not experience the reality we know it since you do not have the apparatus to do so.

This is because your brain uses light to create an image that you see, but without that eye, you cannot create the image, thus the reality you experience is very different from what everyone else experiences.

It is your brain that constructs that image (very similar to how it constructs a dream) and all the other 4 senses you have is also the construction of the mind.

Without the eye, then reality is just light, energy, photons, etc. but the "apparatus" (eye, ear, smell, touch, taste) is what creates matter and reality. Without the brain, reality does not exist. Period. Hence why they refer to it as an "illusion." You think it is real, but it is not really real: it is only the construction of your mind similar to how you construct a reality in your dreams.

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Old 01-02-2013, 10:33 PM   #20
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Default Re: This video kind of f*cked me up and changed my worldview a bit.

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Originally Posted by Mach_3



It's a nice little vid (well the first half that i watched) but it doesn't explain or prove much

This just means you're stupid and can't fully grasp the concepts in the video. Sorry to break it to you.
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Old 01-02-2013, 10:44 PM   #21
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Default Re: This video kind of f*cked me up and changed my worldview a bit.

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Originally Posted by IamRAMBO24

Without the eye, then reality is just light, energy, photons, etc. but the "apparatus" (eye, ear, smell, touch, taste) is what creates matter and reality.
You just said in the first part of your sentence that reality exists outside the apparatus and then you say the apparatus creates reality. You basically contradicted yourself in the same sentence.
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Without the brain, reality does not exist.

Why would our brain be required for reality to exist?
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Period. Hence why they refer to it as an "illusion." You think it is real, but it is not really real: it is only the construction of your mind similar to how you construct a reality in your dreams.
What is your definition of reality? We need to have a common working definition to have a debate.
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Old 01-02-2013, 10:54 PM   #22
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Default Re: This video kind of f*cked me up and changed my worldview a bit.

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Originally Posted by IamRAMBO24
Have you read Descartes .. then Berkeley, then Hume, and moved on to Kant .. and if you are really a f*ckin genius, you would have read Hegel, Schopenhauer, Nietzche .. etc. (and no I'm not talking about cliff notes either).

The sh*t they are talking about isn't some new profound idea some redneck playing next to the pond water all of a sudden pondered upon. These ideas have been debated upon for thousands of years to reach the conclusion Kant manifested: the material reality are things in and of themselves (huge words I know) and we cannot know them for what they truly are since our perception is a by product of our mind.

Before you hate, educate yourself dumbsh*t. You sound like an elementary kid looking at a calculus book and calling it pseudo because you do not have an idea what "derivatives, integrals, functions, etc." really are.
Your bolded still has no implication on material reality. Once again, the fact that our experience of material reality is a construct of the brain does not have any implication on actual reality.
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Old 01-02-2013, 11:00 PM   #23
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Default Re: This video kind of f*cked me up and changed my worldview a bit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shlver
Your bolded still has no implication on material reality. Once again, the fact that our experience of material reality is a construct of the brain does not have any implication on actual reality.

It is also counter to the point of the video. If the statement is correct then the arguments in the video can only be considered conjecture.
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Old 01-02-2013, 11:02 PM   #24
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Default Re: This video kind of f*cked me up and changed my worldview a bit.

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Originally Posted by miller-time
It is also counter to the point of the video. If the statement is correct then the arguments in the video can only be considered conjecture.
Yes, it's a leap of faith. It cannot be defended with reason.
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Old 01-02-2013, 11:16 PM   #25
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Default Re: This video kind of f*cked me up and changed my worldview a bit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IamRAMBO24
Have you read Descartes .. then Berkeley, then Hume, and moved on to Kant .. and if you are really a f*ckin genius, you would have read Hegel, Schopenhauer, Nietzche .. etc. (and no I'm not talking about cliff notes either).

The sh*t they are talking about isn't some new profound idea some redneck playing next to the pond water all of a sudden pondered upon. These ideas have been debated upon for thousands of years to reach the conclusion Kant manifested: the material reality are things in and of themselves (huge words I know) and we cannot know them for what they truly are since our perception is a by product of our mind.

Before you hate, educate yourself dumbsh*t. You sound like an elementary kid looking at a calculus book and calling it pseudo because you do not have an idea what "derivatives, integrals, functions, etc." really are.

Your desperate need to have approval for your knowledge is showing.
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Old 01-03-2013, 03:57 AM   #26
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Default Re: This video kind of f*cked me up and changed my worldview a bit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shlver
You just said in the first part of your sentence that reality exists outside the apparatus and then you say the apparatus creates reality. You basically contradicted yourself in the same sentence.

Why would our brain be required for reality to exist?

What is your definition of reality? We need to have a common working definition to have a debate.

Reality is the material world.

What is matter. It is nothing more than energy. Same with sound. It is vibrations. But what makes it sound is the ear. What makes the world real is the eye. Both these apparatuses take the "raw" materials and transmit it to the brain to create reality.

So that image that you see in front of you isn't seperate from you; it is the creation of your mind. It is the same thing as if you are dreaming: the world looks like a real material world apart from you but it is all in your head. What connects us to the same reality is a universal consciousness (or program) that we cannot know or ever be aware of. This is what Kant simply coined "the thing in itself" - which means he doesn't know what the f*ck it is and concluded can't ever be known.

I'll give it to you though, you're asking questions some of the greatest philosophical minds spent their entire lives figuring out.

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Old 01-03-2013, 04:09 AM   #27
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Default Re: This video kind of f*cked me up and changed my worldview a bit.

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Originally Posted by OhNoTimNoSho
Your desperate need to have approval for your knowledge is showing.

I'm not even trying to find approval. Due to our habits of seeing the world and going through our entire lives learning a sh*tty kind of physics in school that has absolutely nothing to do with the world, it is simply impossible to understand these concepts overnight because most of us have been pretty much brainwashed to believe in a material world since at birth.

I lists those philosophers because you have to read them all to truly understand why our material perception is wrong. For someone to just come out and say this is pseudo is ignoring thousands of years of research that comes to the same conclusion; it is a legit premise and not something someone just pulled out of their a*s and create a video about.

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Old 01-03-2013, 04:20 AM   #28
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Default Re: This video kind of f*cked me up and changed my worldview a bit.

Video is half truth. I see it as...

Material world: Illusion
Spiritual world: real

The things we feel like happiness, excitement, love etc etc are all real, while negative feelings are an illusion that stops us from growing.

Interesting how they mention that the all seeing eye is really the pineal gland. I use to think it was the eye of "satan" like some other people, but as I got older I started to think they wanted us to believe that so we can stay in fear. The Pineal Gland thing seems more likely to me, we all have a third eye that is not activated.
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Old 01-03-2013, 05:44 AM   #29
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Default Re: This video kind of f*cked me up and changed my worldview a bit.

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Originally Posted by IamRAMBO24
Reality is the material world.

What is matter. It is nothing more than energy.
It is not "nothing more than energy." When you get down to subatomic particles, you have to consider spin momentum and charge. Conversion from matter to energy is not just energy accounting, it abides by a lot more rules regarding momentum.
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Same with sound. It is vibrations. But what makes it sound is the ear.
No the ear does not make sound, it interprets the vibrations. Our interpretation of those vibrations does not make it actual reality, only a useful modelling system that corresponds to reality. Are frequencies not discernible by the human ear not a part of material reality? That is absurd.
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What makes the world real is the eye.

Both these apparatuses take the "raw" materials and transmit it to the brain to create reality.
No they don't. Once again, our interpretation of material reality is not actual reality, our brain constructed experience is only a modelling system that corresponds with reality. I gave this example in another thread. What makes something smell? It is solely the structure of the molecule that gives the interpretive experience of smell, it is NOT an actual property of the molecule. Sight and sound as well. It may or may not be a property of actual reality, just an experience constructed from wavelength and frequency information.

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So that image that you see in front of you isn't seperate from you; it is the creation of your mind.

No, it is the brain's interpretation of wavelength information reflected off of what you call material reality.
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It is the same thing as if you are dreaming: the world looks like a real material world apart from you but it is all in your head. What connects us to the same reality is a universal consciousness (or program) that we cannot know or ever be aware of. This is what Kant simply coined "the thing in itself" - which means he doesn't know what the f*ck it is and concluded can't ever be known.

I'll give it to you though, you're asking questions some of the greatest philosophical minds spent their entire lives figuring out.
It takes a leap of faith to say what connects us to a "same reality" is a universal consciousness or program. You cannot come to that conclusion using the fact our experience of reality is a construct of our brain. Once again, the fact that our experience of material reality is a construct of the brain does not have any implication on actual reality.

Last edited by shlver : 01-03-2013 at 05:49 AM.
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Old 01-03-2013, 05:54 AM   #30
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Default Re: This video kind of f*cked me up and changed my worldview a bit.

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Originally Posted by IamRAMBO24

What is matter. It is nothing more than energy.
Consult your nearest physics professor. It's more complicated than that. And what do you mean by "nothing more than energy"? Just because it lacks mass makes it less "real" to you? Everything one touches, everything one experiences in our normal conception of reality, is a product of energy. When you bang your hand against a table, it isn't mass that's hitting you back.

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What makes the world real is the eye. Both these apparatuses take the "raw" materials and transmit it to the brain to create reality.
No. Our perception of the outside world is a product of our senses. We have no direct knowledge of reality. That doesn't mean that there isn't an objective world out there. If you're so convinced that there isn't, try jumping off a ledge with your eyes closed, and see if matter ceases to exist (disclaimer: don't)

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So that image that you see in front of you isn't seperate from you; it is the creation of your mind. It is the same thing as if you are dreaming: the world looks like a real material world apart from you but it is all in your head.
Yeah.

Quote:
What connects us to the same reality is a universal consciousness (or program) that we cannot know or ever be aware of. This is what Kant simply coined "the thing in itself" - which means he doesn't know what the f*ck it is and concluded can't ever be known.
Instead of calling it "universal consciousness", you could, like, call it by one of it's conventional names. I.E the objective world, the universe, reality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IamRAMBO24
It is a fact reality is a construction of the brain.
There is no reason to think this. Perception != Reality.

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Without the eye, then reality is just light, energy, photons, etc. but the "apparatus" (eye, ear, smell, touch, taste) is what creates matter and reality.
There is no reason to think the eye, creates matter. From what I understand, physicists have a fairly good understanding of mass, arising from interactions between fundamental forces, and the higgs field.

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Without the brain, reality does not exist. Period.
Without reality, the brain does not exist. Period.
Quote:
Hence why they refer to it as an "illusion." You think it is real, but it is not really real: it is only the construction of your mind similar to how you construct a reality in your dreams.
The most you could say is "Our ability to know what is illusory will always be limited.". We can't have direct access to anything, everything is filtered through our senses.
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