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Old 01-07-2013, 08:03 AM   #31
Nick Young
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Default Re: Dwight Howard does not get touches...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 15yearmagicfan
This would improve the team immensely Title talk is a looooooong away from this team. Comparing is meaningless with completely different team even though they were 2 wins from a title.

Lakers need huge overhaul from current approach and I'm trying to be constructive. You think they should remain the same and hope it turns around?
2 wins from a title, that's one way to put it


Thank Stan Van Gundy for that, he made Dwight look like a dominant offensive force and made Jameer Nelson and Hedo Turkoglu look like allstars.

Building around Dwight is the opposite of constructive. He is mentally too immature to lead a franchise to a title, plus doesn't have the skill to do it either.
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Old 01-07-2013, 08:04 AM   #32
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Default Re: Dwight Howard does not get touches...

Dwight keeps getting stripped? Really?

Hes averaging the second lowest amount of turnovers this year compared to the last 7 hes played. Stop acting as if this is some giant issue, when really it isn't.
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Old 01-07-2013, 08:04 AM   #33
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Default Re: Dwight Howard does not get touches...

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Originally Posted by Rekindled
dwight howard shouldnt get any touches cuz 99% of the times he gets stripped or fouled and miss fts

Anyone who can get 26 rebounds gets touches. That's why they used to let Rodman shoot 3s. Everyone is so rigid about what can and can't happen. If a player is working that hard, you reward them.

-Smak
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Old 01-07-2013, 08:18 AM   #34
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Default Re: Dwight Howard does not get touches...

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Originally Posted by ILLsmak
Anyone who can get 26 rebounds gets touches. That's why they used to let Rodman shoot 3s. Everyone is so rigid about what can and can't happen. If a player is working that hard, you reward them.

-Smak
He isnt working that hard, his defense has been pretty shit for a 3 time DPoTY. McGee was styling on him yesterday and Lawson was going at him with no fear.
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Old 01-07-2013, 08:20 AM   #35
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Default Re: Dwight Howard does not get touches...

He doesn't deserve touches when he always turns the ****ing ball over!
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Old 01-07-2013, 09:40 AM   #36
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Default Re: Dwight Howard does not get touches...

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Originally Posted by The_Yearning
Why didn't he then? I dare say you're a moron.

Not that this is the same Dwight Howard, but he actually was close to that 2 years ago at 23/14 for the season, probably a little higher after the Gortat trade, I know he did average 26/15 for 2 months that year so the 25/15 numbers were not always much of an exaggeration.

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Originally Posted by kennethgriffin
if bynum played tonight he would be a viable option offensively allong with the great rebounding numbers.

you can just dump it into bynum and he goes to work 1 on 1

You can dump it into Bynum and expect him not to pass no matter what. One of the big complaints I see from Laker fans is that Howard takes the team out of rhythm offensively, but that was also one of the biggest complaints about Bynum. Not to mention that Bynum's post game still wouldn't be featured much in D'Antoni's offense and the defense would still be terrible. Bynum trying to run at the pace D'Antoni is stubbornly insisting on playing at would be a joke.
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Old 01-07-2013, 09:45 AM   #37
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Default Re: Dwight Howard does not get touches...

I loved that the Lakers were going to Pau and D12 in the post in the first quarter, but then they went back to their outside game, which clearly isn't working any more.
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Old 01-07-2013, 09:47 AM   #38
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Default Re: Dwight Howard does not get touches...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaqAttack3234
Not that this is the same Dwight Howard, but he actually was close to that 2 years ago at 23/14 for the season, probably a little higher after the Gortat trade, I know he did average 26/15 for 2 months that year so the 25/15 numbers were not always much of an exaggeration.



You can dump it into Bynum and expect him not to pass no matter what. One of the big complaints I see from Laker fans is that Howard takes the team out of rhythm offensively, but that was also one of the biggest complaints about Bynum. Not to mention that Bynum's post game still wouldn't be featured much in D'Antoni's offense and the defense would still be terrible. Bynum trying to run at the pace D'Antoni is stubbornly insisting on playing at would be a joke.

bynum may be a black hole but he's a productive black hole with ability to score on any bigs in 1 on 1 situation and even against double. Dwight leads the team in turnover rates, constantly gets stripped whenever he tries a move and throws the ball away, like he did in a crucial moment yesterday, when there's pressure.

y u always trying to prop up Dwight by shietting on Andrew? Andrew is an injury prone Mr. Glass but that doesn't mean Dwight's got post game
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Old 01-07-2013, 10:14 AM   #39
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Default Re: Dwight Howard does not get touches...

Quote:
Originally Posted by STATUTORY
bynum may be a black hole but he's a productive black hole with ability to score on any bigs in 1 on 1 situation and even against double. Dwight leads the team in turnover rates, constantly gets stripped whenever he tries a move and throws the ball away, like he did in a crucial moment yesterday, when there's pressure.

y u always trying to prop up Dwight by shietting on Andrew? Andrew is an injury prone Mr. Glass but that doesn't mean Dwight's got post game

Dwight's post game hasn't looked very good this year, I'm not claiming that about Dwight this season. He looks worse from a skill standpoint than he has in 4-5 years, and he looks worse than ever from an athletic standpoint making him worse than he's been since his 3rd season as a 21 year old.

But Bynum really isn't that productive as a black hole. He had a good year individually last season, but the best I've seen Bynum as far as effectiveness and impact on the team was after the all-star break in 2011. With Kobe, Pau and Odom, he wasn't a scoring option, just a finisher who focused on defense and rebounding. His post game didn't even come into play during that stretch and it was the biggest impact I've seen him make.

When Laker fans complained about Bynum's inability/unwillingness to pass, it actually was a valid complaint. Phil said the same thing during an interview after last season, that he takes a lot of the other players, especially Gasol out of their game.

And you're missing another point, how would Bynum be productive with THIS team? His main value defensively is the impact his length makes around the rim, although when he was scoring option last year, he didn't make the same difference he's capable of making defensively. And with this team, his lack of speed and effort could potentially make the transition defense even worse, and his inability to defend screen/rolls would be another problem.

Then offensively, he simply wouldn't be getting many touches, certainly no more than Dwight is now, and Bynum would be unhappy about it. He's complained about touches for years.

Here are Bynum's numbers last year vs Dwight's this year.

Bynum- 18.7 ppg, 11.8 rpg, 1.4 apg, 2.5 TO, 1.9 bpg, 55.8 FG%, 69.2 FT%, 35.2 mpg
Howard- 17.3 ppg, 12.4 rpg, 1.8 apg, 3.2 TO, 2.6 bpg, 56.9 FG%, 50.8 FT%, 36.2 mpg

Bynum scored a little more, but with more opportunities to score in the post, overall production is about the same, and Bynum's assist to turnover ratio is the exact same as Dwight's, 0.56.

You wouldn't be able to play through him any more than they are Dwight because of that same problem. Bynum is better at keeping the ball high which is what causes quite a few of Dwight's turnovers, but he's still not getting anyone involved. You can't just catch the ball in the post, and look for your own shot every time. Being able to score is only part of the equation, learning when to pass and how to react to double teams is the other part.
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Old 01-07-2013, 10:26 AM   #40
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Default Re: Dwight Howard does not get touches...

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Originally Posted by ShaqAttack3234
Dwight's post game hasn't looked very good this year, I'm not claiming that about Dwight this season. He looks worse from a skill standpoint than he has in 4-5 years, and he looks worse than ever from an athletic standpoint making him worse than he's been since his 3rd season as a 21 year old.

But Bynum really isn't that productive as a black hole. He had a good year individually last season, but the best I've seen Bynum as far as effectiveness and impact on the team was after the all-star break in 2011. With Kobe, Pau and Odom, he wasn't a scoring option, just a finisher who focused on defense and rebounding. His post game didn't even come into play during that stretch and it was the biggest impact I've seen him make.

When Laker fans complained about Bynum's inability/unwillingness to pass, it actually was a valid complaint. Phil said the same thing during an interview after last season, that he takes a lot of the other players, especially Gasol out of their game.

And you're missing another point, how would Bynum be productive with THIS team? His main value defensively is the impact his length makes around the rim, although when he was scoring option last year, he didn't make the same difference he's capable of making defensively. And with this team, his lack of speed and effort could potentially make the transition defense even worse, and his inability to defend screen/rolls would be another problem.

Then offensively, he simply wouldn't be getting many touches, certainly no more than Dwight is now, and Bynum would be unhappy about it. He's complained about touches for years.

Here are Bynum's numbers last year vs Dwight's this year.

Bynum- 18.7 ppg, 11.8 rpg, 1.4 apg, 2.5 TO, 1.9 bpg, 55.8 FG%, 69.2 FT%, 35.2 mpg
Howard- 17.3 ppg, 12.4 rpg, 1.8 apg, 3.2 TO, 2.6 bpg, 56.9 FG%, 50.8 FT%, 36.2 mpg

Bynum scored a little more, but with more opportunities to score in the post, overall production is about the same, and Bynum's assist to turnover ratio is the exact same as Dwight's, 0.56.

You wouldn't be able to play through him any more than they are Dwight because of that same problem. Bynum is better at keeping the ball high which is what causes quite a few of Dwight's turnovers, but he's still not getting anyone involved. You can't just catch the ball in the post, and look for your own shot every time. Being able to score is only part of the equation, learning when to pass and how to react to double teams is the other part.

I'm not saying bynum would been better with dantoni. nor am I saying that lakers shouldn't have made that trade because Bynum's injury concern is always a nagging concern and you can't pencil him in for 70 games a season

what I'm saying is that in a vacuum, ignoring injuries, Bynum is a much more talented offensive big than Dwight Howard. And Dwight Howard has been dissapointing given his hype, regardless of Andrew's production.

I just don't respect Howard's game, flat out. I think he's the serendipitous product of an era where the two guys that should have legitimately dominated the center position, Andrew Bynum and Greg Oden, were both afflicted with terrible injuries.
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Old 01-07-2013, 10:32 AM   #41
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Default Re: Dwight Howard does not get touches...

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Originally Posted by STATUTORY
I'm not saying bynum would been better with dantoni. nor am I saying that lakers shouldn't have made that trade because Bynum's injury concern is always a nagging concern and you can't pencil him in for 70 games a season

what I'm saying is that in a vacuum, ignoring injuries, Bynum is a much more talented offensive big than Dwight Howard. And Dwight Howard has been dissapointing given his hype, regardless of Andrew's production.

I just don't respect Howard's game, flat out. I think he's the serendipitous product of an era where the two guys that should have legitimately dominated the center position, Andrew Bynum and Greg Oden, were both afflicted with terrible injuries.

Ok, fair enough and we're on the same page as far as the first part. I don't agree with everything you said, though because without injuries, we may still be seeing 2011 Dwight. That Dwight was a better offensive player than Bynum, maybe not more skilled, but the huge difference in mobility and athleticism makes up for that, imo. Dwight wasn't only an MVP candidate in 2011 because of his defense, that was the year his offense was pretty close to catching up to his defense.

I would have liked to have seen Bynum and Oden without injuries, both have/had a ton of potential, but you're also forgetting Yao. What we saw from him in early '06-'07 gave a glimpse of a potential MVP center. Yao would still only be 32, and he's essentially been done since his injury in the '09 playoffs.
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Old 01-07-2013, 10:56 AM   #42
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Default Re: Dwight Howard does not get touches...

Dwight isn't skilled or talented enough to average 25/15. His best years were a mere fluke because somebody had to score on marginally talented teams like his Magic. He is now being exposed for the glorified role player that he is. A glorified Mutombo with less shot blocking basically. He ain't no superstar.
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Old 01-07-2013, 11:12 AM   #43
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Default Re: Dwight Howard does not get touches...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaqAttack3234
Ok, fair enough and we're on the same page as far as the first part. I don't agree with everything you said, though because without injuries, we may still be seeing 2011 Dwight. That Dwight was a better offensive player than Bynum, maybe not more skilled, but the huge difference in mobility and athleticism makes up for that, imo. Dwight wasn't only an MVP candidate in 2011 because of his defense, that was the year his offense was pretty close to catching up to his defense.

I would have liked to have seen Bynum and Oden without injuries, both have/had a ton of potential, but you're also forgetting Yao. What we saw from him in early '06-'07 gave a glimpse of a potential MVP center. Yao would still only be 32, and he's essentially been done since his injury in the '09 playoffs.

drew lost a ton of mobility and athleticism following his first injury. Whether that was just a unavoidable result of his anatomy or some freak accident is debatable but he never regained his hops or agility after that.

Yao too, he always played Dwight hard when they matched up. Even an old Shaq was able to give dwight fits.

Anyway I'm very excited about the new generation of bigs in this league, there's an influx of talent at the center position in a way that was missing in the 2000s. Guys like Monroe, Cousins, Drummond, Asik, are all incredibly promising and have the right balance of size/coordination/touch. U should be pretty happy as well since I remember you mention you are a fan of the post game.
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Old 01-07-2013, 11:25 AM   #44
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Default Re: Dwight Howard does not get touches...

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Originally Posted by STATUTORY
drew lost a ton of mobility and athleticism following his first injury. Whether that was just a unavoidable result of his anatomy or some freak accident is debatable but he never regained his hops or agility after that.

Yao too, he always played Dwight hard when they matched up. Even an old Shaq was able to give dwight fits.

Anyway I'm very excited about the new generation of bigs in this league, there's an influx of talent at the center position in a way that was missing in the 2000s. Guys like Monroe, Cousins, Drummond, Asik, are all incredibly promising and have the right balance of size/coordination/touch. U should be pretty happy as well since I remember you mention you are a fan of the post game.

You're right, Drew was much more athletic before his '08 injury. Personally, I think Yao would have been the best of the 4, with his post scoring, soft touch at 7'6" and his improved physicality around the '06 season which resulted in a lot of free throws that he knocked down at 85%. That's just such a unique skill set. Obviously, he had chronic injury problems, but I wonder what would have happened had he not landed on a Clipper player's foot in '06-'07 and played for the Chinese team. That injury that in '06-'07 was actually a freak injury and he did bounce back from it and come back healthy for the playoffs, but prior to that, he was putting up 27/10 and carrying Houston on his back with Van Gundy running so much through him and T-Mac injured and unproductive to start that season. I just hope his injuries don't affect his quality of life too much at this point.

Another thing about Yao is that he was a better teammate and more humble than guys like Howard, Bynum and Cousins. You are right, though, there's some interesting young big men with a lot of potential. A key is health because so many talented big men get injured, or in Cousins case, his head. I have to watch more Piston games. I have liked what I've seen from Monroe the last few years, especially his passing which is no surprise coming from Georgetown. From what I've heard, and the little I've seen Drummond seems to be a lot better than I thought. Based on his play at UConn, I didn't think he was ready to contribute in the NBA.
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Old 01-07-2013, 02:17 PM   #45
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Default Re: Dwight Howard does not get touches...

Nash is really trying to find a balence. He seems to force the ball downlow to Dwight early in the games, run pick and rolsl later in 2nd and third quarter, and try to let kobe fully establish himself later in the game by finding him in post ups.
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