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Old 01-09-2013, 04:58 PM   #16
StateOfMind12
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Default Re: Would OKC be better if they kept BallSoHarden Over Westbrick

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Originally Posted by upside24
He is a better passer and knows when to pass.

Westbrook has improved this year but Harden is the better playmaker. Yeah, I know WB averages more assists but that doesn't mean he is the better playmaker. When Durant is often the recipiant of your passes, it's a safe bet you are going to get assists.
If that was the case, Westbrook's assists wouldn't have been like 5.5 last season.

Westbrook's passing gets hated on too much. The only weakness is his shitty shot selection.
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Old 01-09-2013, 05:01 PM   #17
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Default Re: Would OKC be better if they kept BallSoHarden Over Westbrick

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Originally Posted by TheAesirsFinest
I feel as if his play-making abilities are distorted by this season. For one, our squad is young as hell, AND they had no experience playing together. Add the facts that Harden is asked to shoulder much of the scoring burden and that our guys tend to "get out of his way" (i.e. no off the ball movement, standing on the perimeter for the best spacing possible)...

He's already making plays at a pretty high level despite all that too.
It's Harden's game to be honest. He is an iso scorer or pick and roll scorer. He is an elite scorer, prol the 5th best after Durant, Lebron, Kobe, and Melo. But a weakness of Harden is that he can be really shut down when the game slows down. When Sampson was coaching, the Rockets played pretty slow which is why both Lin and Harden struggled, because they are both athletic/high tempo players.

I think Harden is a better playmaker than Westbrook, but not a better passer, if that makes sense. They're different, for some reason they are synonymous and they are not. Harden always takes the best shot for the team and he scores at an incredibly efficient rate, while Westbrook doesn't. However, in terms of just simply setting up their team, I think Westbrook is quite clearly better, but he doesn't always get off the best shot.
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Old 01-09-2013, 05:03 PM   #18
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Default Re: Would OKC be better if they kept BallSoHarden Over Westbrick

So far OKC is still rolling, haven't really missed him yet.
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Old 01-09-2013, 05:06 PM   #19
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Default Re: Would OKC be better if they kept BallSoHarden Over Westbrick

Quote:
Originally Posted by StateOfMind12
If that was the case, Westbrook's assists wouldn't have been like 5.5 last season.

Westbrook's passing gets hated on too much. The only weakness is his shitty shot selection.
That is part of his not knowing when to pass. He is a reluctant passer.

Instead of giving the ball to someone else he will settle for bad shots, like one of the guys in my avatar.
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Old 01-09-2013, 05:12 PM   #20
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Default Re: Would OKC be better if they kept BallSoHarden Over Westbrick

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Originally Posted by upside24
That is part of his not knowing when to pass. He is a reluctant passer.

Instead of giving the ball to someone else he will settle for bad shots, like one of the guys in my avatar.
Which at the PG position, on a team with Kevin Durant, makes him a terrible fit at the position
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Old 01-09-2013, 05:18 PM   #21
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Default Re: Would OKC be better if they kept BallSoHarden Over Westbrick

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Originally Posted by Money 23
Which at the PG position, on a team with Kevin Durant, makes him a terrible fit at the position
Exactly.

I understand Westbrook has a mismatch every night at the PG position due to his size and athletic ability (not to mention he can pull up at any time and get a good look), but it's hard watching him come down the court posession after posession and completely ignore Durant.

He just struggles to find a way to coexist with Durant on the court too often.
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Old 01-09-2013, 05:43 PM   #22
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Default Re: Would OKC be better if they kept BallSoHarden Over Westbrick

Some fans blow the whole "Westbrook and Durant struggle to coexist" thing way out of proportion.
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Old 01-09-2013, 06:24 PM   #23
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Default Re: Would OKC be better if they kept BallSoHarden Over Westbrick

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Originally Posted by Money 23
I always maintained this ... even before Harden blew up big in 2012. I saw his potential in 2011. I don't like Westbrook's intangibles, attitude, and approach.

If they would've traded Westbook for CP3, a distribute first PG or even Rondo.

CP3 / Harden / Durant? That wings a ring, I'm fairly certain. It's such a well rounded trio.

Westbrook / Durant I'm iffy about. The basketball intelligence is lacking. Plus, I don't like 6'4 SGs without a solid jumper PLAYING PG.

They can still trade westbrook for a true pg. And why do people act like presti is not one of the best drafter in this league.
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Old 01-09-2013, 06:40 PM   #24
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Default Re: Would OKC be better if they kept BallSoHarden Over Westbrick

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Originally Posted by KG215
Some fans blow the whole "Westbrook and Durant struggle to coexist" thing way out of proportion.
I don't think it is as big of a problem as some others may, but I've seen too many games where Westbrook freezes out Durant. Too many games where Westbrook goes like 11 for 28 when Durant was 13 for 20.

Obviously they coexist well enough for the Thunder to be at worst the second best team in the West.
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Old 01-09-2013, 06:58 PM   #25
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Default Re: Would OKC be better if they kept BallSoHarden Over Westbrick

Harden a great player but people forgot what happened with the heat in the finals, he got shut down and it's happened against okc too. Just something to factor in, i think both westbrook and Harden are good players
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Old 01-09-2013, 06:59 PM   #26
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Default Re: Would OKC be better if they kept BallSoHarden Over Westbrick

Of course they will be way better, Harden is 2nd best SG while Westbrook is 8th best PG.
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Old 01-09-2013, 07:05 PM   #27
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Default Re: Would OKC be better if they kept BallSoHarden Over Westbrick

Quote:
Originally Posted by upside24
I don't think it is as big of a problem as some others may, but I've seen too many games where Westbrook freezes out Durant. Too many games where Westbrook goes like 11 for 28 when Durant was 13 for 20.
Obviously you haven't watched enough games. Westbrook never IGNORES poor old Durant who is sitting there wide open lol. He gets him the ball as often as possible, Durant just sucks at getting open at times vs physical defenders that deny him the ball. And when a play is broken or shotclock is down, Westbrook is the one taking those desperate shots, ruining his FG%. Durant remains efficient because he passes up those looks to Westbrook, only taking the shots he wants. That's why people complain about Durant being passive at times, he doesn't demand the ball like Kobe, he is content letting Westbrook take more shots and get all the blame. Wish Westbrook did get traded, just so I can watch what a juggernaut OKC is with a predictable "pass first" PG without elite slashing or defense lol.
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Old 01-09-2013, 07:31 PM   #28
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Default Re: Would OKC be better if they kept BallSoHarden Over Westbrick

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Originally Posted by Graviton
Wish Westbrook did get traded, just so I can watch what a juggernaut OKC is with a predictable "pass first" PG without elite slashing or defense lol.
@ Westbrook an "elite defense" in the same sentence.

I'd love to see Westbrook on a team where all the defensive attention is paid to him.

Watch him try and get 30 ppg on Jerry Stackhouse 2001 era 40% shooting.

Westbrook's attitude is both a gift and curse for that team. His style of play works to an extent, but lets not play with a more pass first play maker that the Thunder couldn't have a more harmonious offense.
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Old 01-09-2013, 07:41 PM   #29
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Default Re: Would OKC be better if they kept BallSoHarden Over Westbrick

Quote:
Originally Posted by Graviton
Obviously you haven't watched enough games. Westbrook never IGNORES poor old Durant who is sitting there wide open lol. He gets him the ball as often as possible, Durant just sucks at getting open at times vs physical defenders that deny him the ball. And when a play is broken or shotclock is down, Westbrook is the one taking those desperate shots, ruining his FG%. Durant remains efficient because he passes up those looks to Westbrook, only taking the shots he wants. That's why people complain about Durant being passive at times, he doesn't demand the ball like Kobe, he is content letting Westbrook take more shots and get all the blame. Wish Westbrook did get traded, just so I can watch what a juggernaut OKC is with a predictable "pass first" PG without elite slashing or defense lol.
Yeah, you're being a little too harsh on Durant there man. I don't think he's letting Westbrook take those bad shots to protect his FG% or so Westbrook can take all the blame. He just struggles to get open sometimes against stronger more physical defenders. It's not for a lack of trying.

Now, in Westbrook's defense, he and the rest of the OKC offense have been much better this season running through Durant in the fourth quarter. I've watched games where Westbrook has brought the ball up the floor, waited for Durant to get open, and pass him 4 or 5 possessions in a row. There's a much more concerted effort on his part to get the ball to Durant in the 4th quarter and in crunch time. He's much better in this regard this year than he's ever been, and so when people say things like "Westbrook ignores Durant way too much and plays hero ball in the fourth quarter", it just tells me they haven't watched many OKC games this year.
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Old 01-09-2013, 07:45 PM   #30
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Default Re: Would OKC be better if they kept BallSoHarden Over Westbrick

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Originally Posted by lpublic_enemyl
Harden a great player but people forgot what happened with the heat in the finals
Same thing that happened to LeBron v.s. Dallas in 2011?
Same thing that happened to D-Rose v.s. Miami in 2011?

Why is it used as an argument just against Harden? He had a bad series, after having some VERY good ones, that ultimately put them over the hump v.s. teams like San Antonio.
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