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Old 01-10-2013, 10:39 PM   #61
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Default Re: MLB Thread 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelEyes
Of course it's crap but this is what that era did to people. There are some writers who won't vote anyone in from that era. A few writers left their ballots completely blank for this past hall of fame vote, didn't check yes, didn't check no, just blank.
The writers did that to themselves
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Old 01-10-2013, 10:44 PM   #62
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Default Re: MLB Thread 2013

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Originally Posted by raiderfan19
The writers did that to themselves

The players definitely deserve a lot of blame. That entire era was tainted and everyone swept it under the rug and players continuously lied. It's understandable that some people would be dubious of the numbers put up during that time.
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Old 01-10-2013, 10:49 PM   #63
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Default Re: MLB Thread 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelEyes
The players definitely deserve a lot of blame. That entire era was tainted and everyone swept it under the rug and players continuously lied. It's understandable that some people would be dubious of the numbers put up during that time.
The thing is, the writers were in the locker room too. They knew what was going on and chose to ignore it like everyone else because it made for good stories.
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Old 01-10-2013, 10:50 PM   #64
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Default Re: MLB Thread 2013

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Originally Posted by AngelEyes
Jim Thome, Frank Thomas and Ken Griffey Jr. are the only power hitters that come to mind that aren't suspected of using steroids. I think they'll all get in.
Frank Thomas will likely be a first ballot HOFer, same with Griffey, idk about Thome. But I definitely think the writers will eagerly elect the Big Hurt on his first ballot.
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Old 01-10-2013, 10:53 PM   #65
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Default Re: MLB Thread 2013

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Originally Posted by irondarts
Frank Thomas will likely be a first ballot HOFer, same with Griffey, idk about Thome. But I definitely think the writers will eagerly elect the Big Hurt on his first ballot.

Thome has over 600 home runs, which is an utterly monumental achievement, he has also been rendered relatively suspicion free. I think he'll definitely be in, probably on the first ballot.
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Old 01-10-2013, 10:53 PM   #66
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Default Re: MLB Thread 2013

Btw I wouldn't be so sure about Griffey on the steroids front. If we are gonna accuse people with purely anecdotal evidence his body breaking down the way it did fits steroid profiles
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Old 01-10-2013, 10:57 PM   #67
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Default Re: MLB Thread 2013

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Originally Posted by raiderfan19
Btw I wouldn't be so sure about Griffey on the steroids front. If we are gonna accuse people with purely anecdotal evidence his body breaking down the way it did fits steroid profiles

I never said I was suspicion free, just media and most fans. Griffey may have been a user, any player could've been. As for his injuries you also have to consider that the man was abusing his body for over a decade in Seattle, diving for everything, banging into walls, he was also playing on that horrid artificial turf in the Kingdome.
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Old 01-10-2013, 10:59 PM   #68
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Default Re: MLB Thread 2013

Yeah I definitely think there's some suspicion surrounding Griffey. I personally don't think he used, but there's definitely been talk about a lot of suspicion surrounding him using.
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Old 01-10-2013, 10:59 PM   #69
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Default Re: MLB Thread 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelEyes
I never said I was suspicion free, just media and most fans. Griffey may have been a user, any player could've been. As for his injuries you also have to consider that the man was abusing his body for over a decade in Seattle, diving for everything, banging into walls, he was also playing on that horrid artificial turf in the Kingdome.
I was really just trying to prove a point. You can make anecdotal arguments for everyone to have been a user. I don't actually think Griffey used but even if I did I don't think you should be able to hold suspicion against someone without proof
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Old 01-10-2013, 11:01 PM   #70
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Default Re: MLB Thread 2013

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Originally Posted by raiderfan19
I was really just trying to prove a point. You can make anecdotal arguments for everyone to have been a user. I don't actually think Griffey used but even if I did I don't think you should be able to hold suspicion against someone without proof

I agree. You need some sort of evidence, be it a Mitchell Report or whatnot.
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Old 01-10-2013, 11:05 PM   #71
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Default Re: MLB Thread 2013

Btw I wouldn't be quite so certain about Thomas getting in on the first ballot. His career is startling similar to bagwells and bagwell hasn't gotten in.
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Old 01-10-2013, 11:14 PM   #72
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Default Re: MLB Thread 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by raiderfan19
Btw I wouldn't be quite so certain about Thomas getting in on the first ballot. His career is startling similar to bagwells and bagwell hasn't gotten in.

He has over 500 home runs which is something a lot of writers, perhaps wrongly, put a lot of significance into. Over the years I've also heard a lot less suspicion of Thomas from writers and fans, whether that's accurate or not. Thomas was also one of the few active players to actively speak out against steroids. In 95's he called for drug testing and he was also the only active player to be interviewed for the Mitchell Report. I'm not positive of him getting in on the first ballot but I think he will.
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Old 01-10-2013, 11:26 PM   #73
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Default Re: MLB Thread 2013

I think he should, I just don't think it's a given
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Old 01-10-2013, 11:40 PM   #74
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Default Re: MLB Thread 2013

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Originally Posted by raiderfan19
This is by far not the only thing that makes someone a better base runner but bagwell stole 202 bases and was thrown out 78 times. Rose stole 198 and was thrown out 154 times. Bagwell was the better player. It's not close


There is something to be said for longevity and compiling. You seem to give no credit to it, either in season nor career. If it was so easy, everyone would do it.


Charlie Hustle was a damn good baseball player, and was the engine behind a dynasty in the 1970s.
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Old 01-10-2013, 11:53 PM   #75
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Default Re: MLB Thread 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarcastic
There is something to be said for longevity and compiling. You seem to give no credit to it, either in season nor career. If it was so easy, everyone would do it.


Charlie Hustle was a damn good baseball player, and was the engine behind a dynasty in the 1970s.
He wasn't the engine behind those teams. He was at best the 3rd best player on those teams and I'd argue closer to 4th or 5th. Longevity does have value but it's not as important as peak. For instance I'd also take Edgar Martinez over rose and he had a pretty short career but my god could that man hit.
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